# Trump's Cabinet of Curiosities **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 10, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367 "2016-11-10T16:28:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/561 "2016-12-14T18:48:47Z")
Read it and weep. [The oil industry is poised to wield previously unimaginable influence on a global scale in a Trump administration](http://www.dallasnews.com/business/energy/2016/12/14/years-cold-big-oil-finally-set-play-big-role-government). ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/562 "2016-12-14T18:58:19Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Care to share of a few of these? The VA The EPA’s Animus River spill Lois Lerner and the IRS targeting of conservatives HRC’s entire handling of her State department emails “Fast and Furious” [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) implementation mess ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/563 "2016-12-14T19:08:16Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > The VA > The EPA’s Animus River spill > Lois Lerner and the IRS targeting of conservatives > HRC’s entire handling of her State department emails > “Fast and Furious” > [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) implementation mess VA would be fine if conservatives would fund it The Animus spill was originally a contractor mistake, though indeed the individual EPA employees involved were guilty of not notifying others in a timely manner. The scandal about the IRS is that these should not have been tax-exempt orgs in the first place. The statute said that the organizations must do charitable work exclusively, in the Eisenhower administration “exclusively” was changed to “primarily” as a regulatory change, which should not have happened. In any event, the IRS did not solely target conservative groups, no conservative group wound up being denied tax exempt status, and some liberal groups were denied such status. For conservatives to WHINE about this makes no sense. HRC’s email stuff affected zero people, no state secrets were hacked, no harm was done. If this is the worst that government can do, it’s a ringing endorsement of government. Fast and furious, perhaps a good ideal poorly executed. Not everything comes up roses. Even (gasp) private industry makes mistakes (BP Oil spill, Exxon Valdez, etc.) The healthcare website had a rough rollout at first but, as conservatives never mentioned, was fixed. So a website developer had some troubles. WOW, that could NEVER happen without government. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/564 "2016-12-14T19:23:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > VA would be fine if conservatives would fund it > > The Animus spill was originally a contractor mistake, though indeed the individual EPA employees involved were guilty of not notifying others in a timely manner. > > The scandal about the IRS is that these should not have been tax-exempt orgs in the first place. The statute said that the organizations must do charitable work exclusively, in the Eisenhower administration “exclusively” was changed to “primarily” as a regulatory change, which should not have happened. In any event, the IRS did not solely target conservative groups, no conservative group wound up being denied tax exempt status, and some liberal groups were denied such status. For conservatives to WHINE about this makes no sense. > > HRC’s email stuff affected zero people, no state secrets were hacked, no harm was done. If this is the worst that government can do, it’s a ringing endorsement of government. > > Fast and furious, perhaps a good ideal poorly executed. Not everything comes up roses. Even (gasp) private industry makes mistakes (BP Oil spill, Exxon Valdez, etc.) > > The healthcare website had a rough rollout at first but, as conservatives never mentioned, was fixed. So a website developer had some troubles. WOW, that could NEVER happen without government. please compare that with the original claim of > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The government worked just fine under Clinton and Obama. Democrats generally hire competent, qualified people for government jobs, and as a result, those jobs tend to get _done_ in an effective way. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/565 "2016-12-14T19:24:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > please compare that with the original claim of That’s the tendency, yes. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/566 "2016-12-14T19:26:34Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > please compare that with the original claim of It was working fine. Working perfectly, no. You can’t throw up your hands every time a government employee or contractor makes a mistake and say “SEEEE! TOLD YA that government can’t do anything!” ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/567 "2016-12-14T19:27:28Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t see what the DoE bureaucrats hope to accomplish by ignoring / refusing this. It’s just delaying the inevitable for a very short time. In a month or two, their boss will be Rick Perry, and when he says he wants to see the expense reimbursement requests for the last eight years, are they going to tell him “no”? Seems like a good way to get themselves fired. It’s better than just rolling over and surrendering. Evil needs to be opposed, even when it’s only a forlorn hope. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/568 "2016-12-14T19:29:10Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > It was working fine. Working perfectly, no. You can’t throw up your hands every time a government employee or contractor makes a mistake and say “SEEEE! TOLD YA that government can’t do anything!” That’s not what I said though, is it? Please go back and reread post #558 and spend a moment or two contemplating the differences between “quite a few examples” and “anything” ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/569 "2016-12-14T19:31:14Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > It’s better than just rolling over and surrendering. Evil needs to be opposed, even when it’s only a forlorn hope. All this shows me is that you and I have radically-different definitions of the word “evil” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/570 "2016-12-14T19:46:17Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > All this shows me is that you and I have radically-different definitions of the word “evil” I think you learned elsewhere about what the excess CO2 will do to the oceans and to cause areas with less precipitation to become dryer. Yes, I do think it is evil to know already ([and Exxon did know for a long time](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/exxon-knew-about-climate-change-almost-40-years-ago/)) the harm that eliminating regulations and expanding the use of coal and other fossil fuels will do. Demanding the names of the ones that were more involved in controlling emissions is also bad, and it is clearly a part of the overall effort to undermine any progress made. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/571 "2016-12-14T20:25:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > please compare that with the original claim of But I never said it worked perfectly, or that it never made mistakes. The government, like any system not created by and run by our robot overlords, can fuck up just fine, regardless of who’s in charge. The main difference is that the democrats are making a good-faith effort not to cock it up, and it shows in the results. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/572 "2016-12-14T20:33:28Z")
So, it turns out that Michael Flynn, who led chants of “lock her up” might have provided classified documents to foreign military officials. Oops. Former U.S. officials said he was scolded after traveling to Pakistan in 2009 or early 2010 and revealing to Pakistani officials sensitive U.S. intelligence on the militant Haqqani network accused of staging attacks on American forces. U.S. officials said that the move was aimed at prodding Pakistan to crack down on the militant group, but that Flynn exposed U.S. intelligence capabilities that only helped Pakistan protect an organization it used as a proxy ally. Flynn also came under investigation by the Pentagon because of an allegation that he had inappropriately shared highly classified intelligence with Australian and British forces. “I’m proud of that one,” Flynn said in an interview. “Accuse me of sharing intelligence in combat with our closest allies. Please!” Knowingly sharing classified information with Pakistani military officers? Isn’t that treason? Oh well, it’s ok if a Republican does it. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/573 "2016-12-14T20:34:23Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > But I never said it worked perfectly, or that it never made mistakes. The government, like any system not created by and run by our robot overlords, can fuck up just fine, regardless of who’s in charge. I agree. This was my exact point back in #558. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > The main difference is that the democrats are making a good-faith effort not to cock it up, and it shows in the results. I’d ask for a cite on this, but I can’t fathom how you would even begin to quantify something as vague as “it shows in the results”, so I’m prepared to just accept it as your opinion if you can also concede that others might have differing opinions, and there’s no “fact” here to be uncovered that shows which opinion is “correct”. Fair enough? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/574 "2016-12-14T20:36:09Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Flynn also came under investigation by the Pentagon because of an allegation that he had inappropriately shared highly classified intelligence with Australian and British forces. “I’m proud of that one,” Flynn said in an interview. “Accuse me of sharing intelligence in combat with our closest allies. Please!” I’d love to know more of the back story there. Any more details on what incident this is referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/575 "2016-12-14T20:42:35Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I’d love to know more of the back story there. Any more details on what incident this is referring to? [President-elect Donald Trump’s pick for national security adviser](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-pick-advisor-inappropriately-shared-classified-info-n695866), retired Army Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, “inappropriately shared” classified information with foreign governments, a 2010 military investigation concluded. The finding, first reported by The Washington Post, contradicts Flynn’s previous account of the incident, in which he told the newspaper in August that he had permission to share the material. The documents, obtained by the Post under the Freedom of Information Act, do not describe what Flynn shared or with whom while he was the top military intelligence officer in Afghanistan. The Post said the material had to do with CIA activities. In an interview with The Post in August, Flynn acknowledged that he had been investigated for giving classified information to British and Australian officials — America’s closest allies — serving in Afghanistan alongside U.S. forces. Flynn defended his actions and said he did nothing wrong: “That was substantiated because I actually did it. But I did it with the right permissions when you dig into that investigation. I’m proud of that one. Accuse me of sharing intelligence in combat with our closest allies, please.” The Army documents say the investigation determined that Flynn did not have permission to share the secrets. The Defense Department’s inspector general’s office, which conducted an independent review of the investigation, came to the same conclusion, the documents state. The investigation concluded that he did not act “knowingly” and that “there was no actual or potential damage to national security as a result.” It also points out that no disciplinary action was taken against Flynn. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/576 "2016-12-14T20:47:30Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > [INDENT][President-elect Donald Trump’s pick for national security adviser](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/trump-pick-advisor-inappropriately-shared-classified-info-n695866), retired Army Lt. Gen. Mike Flynn, “inappropriately shared” classified information with foreign governments, a 2010 military investigation concluded. Let me just add that I thoroughly expect tumbleweeds from certain posters who have made a habit of claiming that Hillary was somehow a felon. Here’s a guy who actually committed treason, but fuck it, he’s a Republican. Guess you can’t expect any better. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/577 "2016-12-14T20:50:22Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > Here’s a guy who actually committed treason You might be overselling it just a little bit here. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/578 "2016-12-14T20:52:00Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You might be overselling it just a little bit here. If Hillary is a felon then Flynn committed treason. Go talk with the guy who says Hillary is a felon if you disagree. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/579 "2016-12-14T20:54:23Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > If Hillary is a felon then Flynn committed treason. Go talk with the guy who says Hillary is a felon if you disagree. I don’t know who that guy is, but does his exaggeration excuse yours? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367/580 "2016-12-14T20:57:18Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t know who that guy is, but does his exaggeration excuse yours? Mine isn’t an exaggeration. He provided classified military documents to unfriendly foreign governments without permission. That’s treason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cabinet-of-curiosities/771367.md?page=30)