# Trump's campaign chief engages in voter fraud **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 26, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025 "2016-08-26T17:11:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/61 "2016-08-27T00:28:23Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Because maybe he only meant to perjure himself to get a drivers license or meet some child visitation requirement and it was an accident to register to vote. Oh come on now! This is stretching things pretty far. He was just lying to get a fraudulent Florida driver’s license for some unknown reason, but then made an innocent mistake and maybe (if there is a tick box, which you still have not provided any evidence for), ticked the box to register to vote. Good god. Can you bend over any more backwards to excuse the guy? And yes, you are really, really trying to excuse him, so it’s no wonder that people think “why is **CarnalK** inventing such ludicrous scenarios to excuse Trump’s hand-chosen man here?” One can hardly blame them. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/62 "2016-08-27T00:29:25Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Yeah. For one vote?? Doubtful. But to avoid state income tax? That’s a problem. A big problem, at least to me. How many other California Republicans are registered to vote in Florida “by mistake”? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/63 "2016-08-27T00:51:43Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > And yes, you are really, really trying to excuse him, so it’s no wonder that people think “why is **CarnalK** inventing such ludicrous scenarios to excuse Trump’s hand-chosen man here?” One can hardly blame them. That’ll earn you a warning, EP. Enough with the personal cracks. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/64 "2016-08-27T01:07:31Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That’ll earn you a warning, EP. Enough with the personal cracks. THAT was a “personal crack” enough to receive a formal warning? OK then. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/65 "2016-08-27T01:11:37Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Yeah. For one vote?? Doubtful. But to avoid state income tax? That’s a problem. A big problem, at least to me. As I suggested earlier, something to do with child support and/or divorce seems more likely. I mean there’s a few states he could pretend to live to avoid state taxes but he chose his ex-wife’s state? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/66 "2016-08-27T01:14:14Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > As I suggested earlier, something to do with child support and/or divorce seems more likely. I mean there’s a few states he could pretend to live to avoid state taxes but he chose his ex-wife’s state? Which children would be involved in this hypothetical child support situation of yours? The US Army Lieutenant or her twin? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/67 "2016-08-27T01:31:17Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Which children would be involved in this hypothetical child support situation of yours? The US Army Lieutenant or her twin? :dubious: She just graduated Westpoint and became a lieutenant last October. Pretty sure at least some of his support orders were up until the two graduated (iirc, he was ordered to pay their undergrad tuition). I think the later re-registration in Florida mentioned in this thread was in 2013 well before she was a lieutenant. Do you find that dubious as well? ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/68 "2016-08-27T01:41:14Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > As I suggested earlier, something to do with child support and/or divorce seems more likely. I mean there’s a few states he could pretend to live to avoid state taxes but he chose his ex-wife’s state? There’s also the matter that Florida has VERY generous rules about protecting your assets in the event of bankruptcy–far more generous than Texas or South Dakota, e.g. All I’ve seen so far is that Bannon has twin children born in 1995; they would have been about 19, so past the age when child support usually stops, by the time he filled out this form, and he’d already been divorced for five years from wife #3 (and 17+ years from #2, the twins’ mother). Something to do with the divorce or support **might** make sense at the time of the divorce, but what could possibly be the “something” that many years later? (His daughter Maureen was already enrolled at West Point at the time, so his residence would not have affected her tuition or anything like that, because West Point doesn’t charge tuition. Not sure about the other daughter, but apparently her mom had custody of both, so the mother’s residency would usually be the one to count for in-state tuition.) ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/69 "2016-08-27T01:41:26Z")
Just to be clear, some of you honesty suspect that he registered in Florida so that every two or four years in November he could fly to the other side of the country to cast a vote? > [@](#): > > There’s also the matter that Florida has VERY generous rules about protecting your assets in the event of bankruptcy–far more generous than Texas or South Dakota, e.g See, now that’s a reasonable guess as to why he did it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/70 "2016-08-27T01:55:25Z")
To be clear - I for one am not clear as to _why_ he broke the law … I suspect for reasons like declaring residency for tax purposes or such … but I find the hypotheses as to how it was an innocent mistake with no awareness of its illegality to not be at all credible and am a bit incredulous that anyone other than an abject apologist would offer such a hypothesis up. That said just as Al Capone was busted on tax evasion, voter fraud is the crime we have the most clear case for in the public record. Now California may be looking into whether or not he filed a tax return there, but we do not have access to that information so speculation on that is mere speculation. ---
**Author:** ![slash2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@slash2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slash2k)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/71 "2016-08-27T01:56:18Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Just to be clear, some of you honesty suspect that he registered in Florida so that every two or four years in November he could fly to the other side of the country to cast a vote? I doubt anybody here thinks that. I personally think, and I believe most of the rest of us think, that the voter registration is a side effect of trying to establish Florida residency for financial reasons (income tax and/or estate tax and/or bankruptcy protection). The very act of registering, however, is still voter fraud, regardless of his actual intent to cast a ballot. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/72 "2016-08-27T02:03:59Z")
Though now that you mention it, in state tuition fees might be a possible motive. It might have been because he’s the one who actually paid for the homes they bought it was way easier to prove residency quickly : > [@](#): > > (d) “Legal resident” or “resident” means a person who has maintained his or her residence in this state for the preceding year, has purchased a home which is occupied by him or her as his or her residence, or has established a domicile in this state pursuant to s. 222.17. [http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App\_mode=Display\_Statute&Search\_String=1009.21&URL=1000-1099/1009/Sections/1009.21.html](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=1009.21&URL=1000-1099/1009/Sections/1009.21.html) ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/73 "2016-08-27T02:22:14Z")
Your imaginings about his motives are irrelevant. I’m sure he’d say that he has a really, really, good excuse. It doesn’t change the fact that his _actions_ are voter fraud. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/74 "2016-08-27T02:37:53Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > To be clear - I for one am not clear as to _why_ he broke the law … I suspect for reasons like declaring residency for tax purposes or such … but I find the hypotheses as to how it was an innocent mistake with no awareness of its illegality to not be at all credible and am a bit incredulous that anyone other than an abject apologist would offer such a hypothesis up. Well, I sure hope you don’t think I was offering up such a hypothesis. I may be combative but I was asking an honest question because I don’t JAQ and I appreciate running coach actually answering me. None of the alternative reasons I did hypothesize would be ethically clean > [@Merneith](#): > > Your imaginings about his motives are irrelevant. I’m sure he’d say that he has a really, really, good excuse. It doesn’t change the fact that his _actions_ are voter fraud. I think technically it’s something other than voter fraud until we know he actually voted in Florida. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/75 "2016-08-27T02:57:17Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > …I think technically it’s something other than voter fraud until we know he actually voted in Florida. Yep, I agree. I think it’s more likely tied to tax evasion. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/76 "2016-08-27T03:31:12Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I think technically it’s something other than voter fraud until we know he actually voted in Florida. This is incorrect. The Florida law has already been quoted for you once, [by slash2k in post 37](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19584773&postcount=37). Here it is again: [http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App\_mode=Display\_Statute&URL=0100-0199/0104/0104.html](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0100-0199/0104/0104.html) > [@](#): > > 104.011 False swearing; submission of false voter registration information.— > (1) A person who willfully swears or affirms falsely to any oath or affirmation, or willfully procures another person to swear or affirm falsely to an oath or affirmation, in connection with or arising out of voting or elections commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. > **(2) A person who willfully submits any false voter registration information commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.** > History.—s. 15, ch. 14715, 1931; CGL 1936 Supp. 8202(6); s. 8, ch. 26870, 1951; s. 19, ch. 71-136; s. 33, ch. 77-175; s. 38, ch. 94-224; s. 31, ch. 97-13. Emphasis mine. There is no special exemption for people who willfully submit false registration for the purposes of tax fraud or in-state tuition dodges or because they just weren’t paying attention and accidentally registered to vote somewhere and then didn’t feel any need to correct it because they are far too busy and important. Oh - also for your convenience, here’s another link to the Voter Registration information in Florida, [which running coach provided you back in post #48](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=19584913&postcount=48) The instructions say: [http://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voter-registration/register-to-vote-or-update-your-information/](http://dos.myflorida.com/elections/for-voters/voter-registration/register-to-vote-or-update-your-information/) > [@Florida Voter Registration Instructions](#): > > Sign your application. The application requires an original signature because you are swearing or affirming to an oath. If the information on the application is not true, the applicant can be convicted of a felony of the third degree and fined up to $5,000 and/or imprisoned for up to five years. You can also see the Florida Voter Registration Form here: [http://dos.myflorida.com/media/693757/dsde39.pdf](http://dos.myflorida.com/media/693757/dsde39.pdf) > [@Florida Voter Registration form](#): > > CRIMINAL OFFENSE: It is a 3rd degree felony to submit false information. Maximum penalties are $5,000 and/or 5 years in prison. Emphasis in the original. Whatever you want to call it, _technically speaking_ - it’s a third degree felony. Your imaginings about his motivations are irrelevant. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/77 "2016-08-27T04:39:18Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Though now that you mention it, in state tuition fees might be a possible motive. It might have been because he’s the one who actually paid for the homes they bought it was way easier to prove residency quickly : > > [Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine](http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=1009.21&URL=1000-1099/1009/Sections/1009.21.html) Which is of course still fraudulent, as it was not “occupied by him or her as his or her residence” and “maintained his or her residence in this state for the preceding year … pursuant to s. 222.17.” means “a sworn statement that his or her place of abode in Florida constitutes his or her predominant and principal home, and that he or she intends to continue it permanently as such.” But note that no proof of purchase is required. As to whether or not I think _you_ were “offering up such a hypothesis” … if I _did_ I would certainly not state such after such clear mod instructions and a warning given for expressing such belief. 🙂 It may not be incorrect for his motivation to simply be being able to vote where his vote might possibly actually make a difference. He _is_ a political nutjob. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/78 "2016-08-27T07:06:04Z")
Whelp, that does it I guess. I was arguing so hard that he had valid legal and ethical reasons for his wrong voter registration but you guys done proved me wrong. That’s some egg on my face. ---
**Author:** ![Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9de0a6/32.png) [@Ambrosio\_Spinola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambrosio_Spinola)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/79 "2016-08-27T20:25:39Z")
Apparently he has decided to correct the problem of registering his residence at a house in Florida where he doesn’t live . . . by [registering at a different home in Florida where he also doesn’t live](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/aug/26/steve-bannon-florida-voter-registration-home-breitbart-writer). Can’t make this stuff up. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2016, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/80 "2016-08-27T21:38:30Z")
Tell us some more about how Hillary thinks she’s above the law, Steve. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025.md?page=5)