# Trump's campaign chief engages in voter fraud **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [August 26, 2016, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025 "2016-08-26T17:11:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/101 "2016-08-28T19:06:13Z")
Perhaps because follow-up work is difficult on a weekend? would the voting lists for the Florida county where the house is, and the California county where he actually seems to live, be available over the weekend? If not, difficult to see much more than a “the Guardian says” kind of article. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/102 "2016-08-28T19:21:54Z")
Don’t really think voting fraud was his intent, much more likely some sort of scam, I reckon. Besides, as vile a leper as this guy is for sure, why even bother? Its like charging John Wayne Gacy with parking tickets. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Bravo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_bravo/32/493_2.png) [@Johnny\_Bravo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Bravo)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/103 "2016-08-28T21:44:13Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Its like charging John Wayne Gacy with parking tickets. Or like charging Al Capone with tax evasion? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/104 "2016-08-28T22:05:33Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > Or like charging Al Capone with tax evasion? Bravo! … Johnny… ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/105 "2016-08-28T22:41:51Z")
> [@Bill\_Door](#): > > You don’t pay taxes in both states. If your employer withholds taxes in both NJ and NY you get a credit in NY for all NJ income taxes paid. If the amount withheld in NJ exceeds the amount due in NY you would get all of the money withheld in NY back as a refund. Again, this is only on earned income, like wages. Taxes on unearned income are only paid in the state you reside in. No, that’s not the way it works. Unless there is some other law that specifically applies, if you work in one state but live in another state, you pay taxes on all of your worldwide income to the state where you live. The money you earn in the state where you work is taxable by the state where you work. The state where you live generally allows a tax credit for the taxes owed to the state where you work up to the amount of the resident state’s apportioned tax on the double taxed income, not _all_ the tax. And the amount withheld is irrelevant. Let’s say your employer over-withholds your NY income tax. NJ does not allow a credit for the portion over-withheld. The are exceptions. For example, residents of NJ that earn wages in PA are exempt from PA income taxes on those wages and vice versa. (There is no such reciprocal arrangement between NY and NJ.) Residents of California who have Arizona-source income (not just wages) pay full taxes in California and claim a credit on their Arizona tax return. And the distinction is not between “earned” and “unearned” income. Generally, income from businesses (including employment and self-employment) and tangible property is taxable in the state where the business is conducted or the property is located. All income (unless specifically exempt) is taxable in the state of your residence. For example, if you live in NJ and own a rental property in NY, You owe both NY and NJ tax on the rent and on the proceeds from the sale of the property. But if you earn interest from a bank account located in New York, you owe taxes only to NJ. Similarly if you live in NJ and own shares in a Deleware corporation that pays dividends and then you sell the shares on the New York stock exchange, you do not owe taxes to Delaware or New York. Now I frankly have no idea why **RitterSport** claims to owe no taxes to NY. Perhaps his income is below the taxable threshold in NY or NY allows more deductions than NJ or he filled out his tax return wrong. I do know NJ has different rules on the deductibility of retirement plan contributions than NY does. To be fair, **RitterSport** says he got a “huge refund” and he “thinks” it is all the taxes paid to NY. If his employer withheld more NY taxes than he owes (which is very common), then of course he will get a refund from NY. If **RitterSport** wanted to post a copy of his NY tax return, I could perhaps take a guess as to why he pays no NY taxes. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/106 "2016-08-28T22:50:37Z")
If he doesn’t post the returns… could that mean that RS is Donald Trump himself?!? Now we know the reasons for the audit… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/107 "2016-08-28T23:14:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_Bravo](#): > > To later prove residency and file taxes in Florida, where you pay no state income tax. > > Still fraud, though. I was going to let this go, but since I made the previous reply, I might as well talk about this one. Two important points: 1. California is not bound by any determination by the State of Florida that someone is a Florida resident (or more specifically a determination that someone is NOT a California resident). Yes, you can have two states claiming you are a resident and if you don’t like it, you can take them to court. 2. There is the concept of “domicile” in a state. Your “domicile” is your permanent home where you plan to return after an absence. For tax purposes, many states (including California) will treat you as a resident regardless of whether you are physically present in the state or only domiciled in the state. You need to have evidence to show that you have abandoned your California domicile in order to become a non-resident for tax purposes. If you keep your old home in California, continue to live in it, have business and social ties in California, have no permanent place to live in another state, etc, California is going to claim that you never abandoned your California domicile no matter where you register to vote or get your driver’s license. And since you never abandoned your California domicile, they will treat you as a resident for income tax purposes. You will frequently read stories on the net from people bragging that they rented a broom closet in Florida and got a Florida driver’s license and now avoid paying taxes to their real state of residence. If the story is even true, it simply means they have not yet been caught. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2016, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/108 "2016-08-28T23:27:21Z")
Based on that NPR story, my guess would be this is a tax thing. He apparently has had several run-ins with the taxman. ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/109 "2016-08-29T02:54:15Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > He apparently has had several run-ins with the taxman. The IRS needs Better Suburbans… ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2016, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/110 "2016-08-29T19:40:07Z")
> [@Alley\_Dweller](#): > > …To be fair, **RitterSport** says he got a “huge refund” and he “thinks” it is all the taxes paid to NY. If his employer withheld more NY taxes than he owes (which is very common), then of course he will get a refund from NY. > If **RitterSport** wanted to post a copy of his NY tax return, I could perhaps take a guess as to why he pays no NY taxes. Hey, I’m not Trump, or I would have said that I got a yuge refund. I probably just get a portion back. I know people who keep very close track of the days they work from home in NJ vs. the days they work in the city, so I’m sure you’re right about that. Or, maybe any bonus doesn’t count for days worked in the city. I’ll check it more closely this April, I guess. :smack: Now, let’s get back to trashing Trump’s campaign staff and leave my tax returns alone! ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Lendervedder](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_lendervedder/32/8488_2.png) [@Happy\_Lendervedder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Lendervedder)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/111 "2016-08-31T20:22:43Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Anyone with any idea why some major news sources are not reporting on the Bannon voter fraud story? > > Nothing on it in the NYT for example (although they do carry his wife’s sworn testimony in divorce proceedings that he didn’t want “girls going to school with Jews” apparently because Jews raise their kids to be “whiny brats.”) Nothing I can find in the WSJ either. > > How confirmed is this one? From NBC News: [Prosecutor probes Trump campaign CEO Stephen Bannon’s voting record](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prosecutor-probes-trump-campaign-ceo-stephen-bannon-s-voter-record-n640326?cid=sm_fb) ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/112 "2016-08-31T20:59:23Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > From NBC News: [Prosecutor probes Trump campaign CEO Stephen Bannon’s voting record](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prosecutor-probes-trump-campaign-ceo-stephen-bannon-s-voter-record-n640326?cid=sm_fb) Hypothetical: What if it is found out that Bannon voted in California where he lives, **and also** by advance poll in Florida where he registered himself to vote at a house he did not live in? Will he be spending “more time with family”? Or will Trump (and his supporters) not really care about this? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/113 "2016-08-31T21:02:25Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Hypothetical: What if it is found out that Bannon voted in California where he lives, **and also** by advance poll in Florida where he registered himself to vote at a house he did not live in? > > Will he be spending “more time with family”? Or will Trump (and his supporters) not really care about this? I vote not caring. Predicted spin: He was merely demonstrating how hundreds of thousands of Democrats are doing it. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/114 "2016-08-31T21:07:57Z")
> [@Happy\_Lendervedder](#): > > From NBC News: [Prosecutor probes Trump campaign CEO Stephen Bannon’s voting record](http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/prosecutor-probes-trump-campaign-ceo-stephen-bannon-s-voter-record-n640326?cid=sm_fb) Interesting. According to that article he didn’t have a Florida drivers license, so my idea that was the reason he did it is off. He mailed in his last one so obviously he’s keeping up this charade for some ongoing reason. The say also thaat he didn’t vote in 2014. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025/115 "2016-08-31T21:27:22Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Hypothetical: What if it is found out that Bannon voted in California where he lives, **and also** by advance poll in Florida where he registered himself to vote at a house he did not live in? > > Will he be spending “more time with family”? Or will Trump (and his supporters) not really care about this? 100% “not care”–the precedents are pretty clear: Immigration violations: ‘destroying the country’ if done by non-whites; ‘I’m down with Western Civilization’ if done by white Europeans. Voting for the 2002 Iraq Resolution: Unforgivable, disqualifying evidence of terrible judgment if it’s Hillary Clinton, but “he’s entitled to make a mistake” if it’s Mike Pence. On not releasing income tax returns: Bad call when it’s Mitt Romney in 2012, according to Trump\*; not an issue when it’s Trump himself in 2016. \*[Remember When Trump Said That Romney Should Release His Taxes?](http://www.mediaite.com/online/remember-when-trump-said-that-romney-should-release-his-taxes/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-campaign-chief-engages-in-voter-fraud/764025.md?page=5)