# Trumps & cronies gaffes: accidental or careful trolling? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 11, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272 "2017-04-11T22:40:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/1 "2017-04-11T22:40:56Z")
- Sean Spicer misrepresents Hitler in the week before Passover. - Betsy de Vos makes spelling errors shortly before becoming Secretary of Education. - Melania Trump calls out cyberbullying. -Trump himself misspells the word unprecedented as unpresidented. - At the start of Black History Month, an important historical name is misspelled. I gotta say, this seems more and more like willfull trolling every day. One of the reasons I think so, is that the gaffing party never seems to be in any trouble from Trumps’ side afterwards. It is also telling that the gaffes are made out to be as juicy as possible. The match of gaffe to person and circumstances is rather … specific. Sean Spicer could, for instance have misspelled Hitlers name, but he didn’t. If he had, that would have not sparked as much discussion as the error he did make. At the start of Black history month, they could have misrepresented facts about black history. They didn’t, probably because most people are not aquainted well enough with black history to notice such an error and get enraged about it. General Flynn could have made spelling errors in his Tweets when he was nearly appointed, but that would not have gotten people as worked up as when the secretary of Education does it. Assuming it is intended, what is the reason ? Distraction ? Drawing attention to whatever it is Trump wants our attention? Making us out to be petty fact-defenders and grammarnazis? Are the Trumpettes having fun at our expense? Is it a rite de passage for them, did Betsy the Vos have to show her loyalty by making a misspelled public tweet? Or are we just caught in [narcissistic drama?](https://afternarcissisticabuse.wordpress.com/2016/09/12/chaos-crazy-making-and-drama-a-narcissists-recipe-to-always-bake-up-drama-to-divide-and-conquer-the-world/) > [@](#): > > Narcissists love to create, seed and cultivate their toxic and chaotic drama for the basic reason of CONTROL! Yes, they are into drama and very dramatic because they live in and with so much internal chaos – even as controlled as they may seem to be. Narcissists also create drama as another distorted tool to get supply or draw all of the attention to THEM or also away from them when they need to avoid exposure. > It is what they do with this drama because it never achieves anything good and it is used to basically divide and conquer people and keep them confused or to control AND to isolate them. > You can bet the Narcissist is always the go to person or at the center of all chaos and drama but comes out smelling like a rose. > The Narcissist I knew was very adept at this and cunning in the manner that they did it (triangulation), but be assured someone or something was being completely destroyed in the process! ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2017, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/2 "2017-04-11T23:02:00Z")
Notice something in common? None of the people you named are expert, grade A politicians. Some of them are in fact outsiders to the establishment. Trump has in fact partially drained the swamp and then refilled it, as it were. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/3 "2017-04-12T00:15:47Z")
Hanlon’s razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” I think they actually are that stupid. I haven’t seen any evidence of competence on their part that would make me believe they were playing a deep game. ---
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/4 "2017-04-12T00:34:30Z")
Yeah, I think they really are just that stupid. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/5 "2017-04-12T01:15:05Z")
You forget that a “gaffe” (ghastly term IMO) we all know about is a gaffe that either went viral or was promoted by the media. Or both. The more minor stupidities these folks pump out daily are just treated as noise. The juicy salacious ones get elevated to the level of a \*cause celebre \*gaffe. IOW, you’re looking at a self-fulfilling prophesy. When they do something especially controversial, the controversy machinery will go into overdrive to make it even bigger. When they do something slightly controversial, we’ll ignore it as simply par for their scruffy amateur course. I’m a big believer in never underestimating your opposition. Nevertheless in this case I’ll pull out one of my standard comments going the other way: These idiots can’t plan, let alone plot. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/6 "2017-04-12T05:39:28Z")
Still, if it is stupidity, why isn’t Trump angry with them? They make him look bad, no? The only thing I hear Trump being angry at Spicer for, is not looking attractive enough. Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/7 "2017-04-12T05:46:03Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Still, if it is stupidity, why isn’t Trump angry with them? They make him look bad, no? The only thing I hear Trump being angry at Spicer for, is not looking attractive enough. > Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro He values loyalty over competence. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/8 "2017-04-12T06:30:21Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Hanlon’s razor: “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” > > I think they actually are that stupid. I haven’t seen any evidence of competence on their part that would make me believe they were playing a deep game. This. These people are just marginally intelligent and literate, just enough to barely go through the motions of running a country. And they’re too stupid to even recognize each other’s stupidity. Each or them thinks the others actually know what they’re saying and doing. My god, compare them with ANY previous administration. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/9 "2017-04-12T13:13:04Z")
The “unpresidented” I could kinda see the possibility, but it’s more likely that’s how he thinks it’s spelled. He probably had someone turn spellcheck off because he’s a perfect speller alreddy. But really it’s mostly just stupid people being stupid. It is part of a greater, general assault on facts. Actual news being called fake, fake news being treated as real, contradictory statements and positions, and vicious ad hominem attacks on anyone who calls it out. There is an uncoordinated effort to discredit the very idea of objective reality. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/10 "2017-04-12T13:19:49Z")
I think incompetence is the simplest explanation. ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/11 "2017-04-12T13:39:43Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > I gotta say, this seems more and more like willfull trolling every day. One of the reasons I think so, is that the gaffing party never seems to be in any trouble from Trumps’ side afterwards. > … > Assuming it is intended, what is the reason ? Distraction ? Drawing attention to whatever it is Trump wants our attention? Making us out to be petty fact-defenders and grammarnazis? Are the Trumpettes having fun at our expense? Is it a rite de passage for them, did Betsy the Vos have to show her loyalty by making a misspelled public tweet? To what end indeed? At some point the narrative that Trump is some kind of mastermind marketer maniacally manipulating the masses with his machismo (sorry got carried away with the alliteration after “mastermind marketer”) becomes less believable compared to “Trump and his cronies are a bunch of rich unprepared idiots who got lucky”. > [@Maastricht](#): > > Still, if it is stupidity, why isn’t Trump angry with them? They make him look bad, no? The only thing I hear Trump being angry at Spicer for, is not looking attractive enough. Well, go back to high school or college and think about how the dumbest people in the popular crowd acted. Did they give a crap about getting a D- in History? No. All they cared about was no fat chicks showed up to the keg party on Friday. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/12 "2017-04-12T13:54:41Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > These idiots can’t plan, let alone plot. +1 ---
**Author:** ![Aspidistra](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspidistra/32/3894_2.png) [@Aspidistra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspidistra)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/13 "2017-04-12T14:34:37Z")
> [@Maastricht](#): > > Still, if it is stupidity, why isn’t Trump angry with them? They make him look bad, no? > > Verzonden vanaf mijn iPhone met Tapatalk Pro No. Trump supporters prefer leaders who make typos, gaffes and dumb mistakes. Intelligent leaders make them feel inadequate. ---
**Author:** ![Gus\_Gusterson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/85f322/32.png) [@Gus\_Gusterson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gus_Gusterson)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/14 "2017-04-12T15:40:17Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > This. These people are just marginally intelligent and literate, just enough to barely go through the motions of running a country. And they’re too stupid to even recognize each other’s stupidity. Each or them thinks the others actually know what they’re saying and doing. It’s the [Dunning-Kruger Effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) in action. Stupid people don’t know that they’re stupid. They’re not smart enough to figure it out. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2017, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/15 "2017-04-12T23:58:43Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You forget that a “gaffe” (ghastly term IMO) . . . I never thought about it before: why do you object to the term? Now I’m envisioning the Press Secretary with a long pole with a big hook on the end, making another of his frequent gaffs. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/16 "2017-04-13T00:10:49Z")
The word is archaic and unused in ordinary English. It’s only function is to refer to a politician saying something that some faction claims is false, inflammatory, or otherwise ill-advised. A statement’s gaffiness is mostly down to the emotional content, not the factual content. It’s a lazy journalism cliché, like calling every scandal \-gate. Other than that, it’s perfectly cromulent. 🙂 To be sure, Trump & crew make far more ignorant anti-factual statements for ignorant ill-considered reasons than darn near any motley crew of politicians in my political memory. A memory which goes back to the early days of the Johnson administration. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/17 "2017-04-13T00:17:48Z")
One thing this thread has convinced me of is that if it is intentional, it has worked, since no one here thinks it is anything but stupidity. But how did they run a successful election campaign in that case? Trump himself obviously decided that the more outrageous he was the more outraged would his supporters become. Note the very few have deserted them. So I’ll be a contrarian and say they are taking attention from the real things Trump is actually doing. Defunding Planned Parenthood, arts, the tunnel under the Hudson, Amtrak, etc. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/18 "2017-04-13T02:09:17Z")
I don’t think Melania imagined she’d actually become First Lady when she say she’d make cyberbullying an issue. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/19 "2017-04-13T02:31:34Z")
If it’s a plan, it’s a poorly conceived one (which admittedly doesn’t rule it out for this bunch). You can throw somebody to the wolves once or twice to draw attention away from a big story. But if you do it too many times, you run the risk of it becoming a big story itself. An administration has to have some measure of credibility to get things done. Too many gaffes and the administration loses its necessary credibility and, with it, any political influence. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2017, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272/20 "2017-04-13T03:03:01Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He values loyalty over competence. Although he inspires neither. He’s the perfect weapon on the War On Aptitude. > [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > One thing this thread has convinced me of is that if it is intentional, it has worked, since no one here thinks it is anything but stupidity. But how did they run a successful election campaign in that case? Trump himself obviously decided that the more outrageous he was the more outraged would his supporters become. Note the very few have deserted them. He ran a campaign so successful that he lost the popular vote by nearly three million votes, while Clinton ran a campaign so painfully incompetent that she lost states and failed to get votes in demographics that Democrats traditionally sweep by default regardless of how popular or competent the Republican candidate is. Trump promised to bring coal mining jobs to Pennsylvania while Clinton pledged to work to eliminate coal entirely and provided no alternative or even addressed the concerns of people put out of work by the shift in energy policy. That’s kind of like walking up to the girl you want to take to the prom and punching her in the face. All Trump had to do was stand up their with a stupid grin on his face like the guy who just farted in an elevator and keep his fucking mouth shut, and he’s not even very good at that. If Sean Spicer was deliberately trolling, he’d fuck that up, too, because he is basically a human-shaped blob of unalloyed incompetence in a Men’s Warehouse 3-for-1 Special suit. He is exactly what Armando Iannucci imagined when he crafted Mike McClintock, and he now probably lives in fear that the other characters he created for the show have real life counterparts who will come to power and bumble around with ribald incompetence, only even he couldn’t imagine someone as terminally inept as Donald Trump, who seems like a villain from a Dr. Seuss story or a Rowan Atkinson skit gone terribly, horribly wrong. But I love his turn as White House spokesperson. #LetHimMisspeak! Stranger [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-cronies-gaffes-accidental-or-careful-trolling/784272.md?page=2)