# Trump's disgusting shakedown of Zelensky **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [February 28, 2025, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940 "2025-02-28T19:52:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/241 "2025-03-01T22:16:54Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > The good guys of the 21st century are going to be the ones who stop the American/Russian axis. It may very well be true that the USA under Trump has already essentially become allies with Putin’s Russia in terms of geopolitical goals. I’m unsure if I’m reading that somehow the common goal in WWII of the Soviets and USA/Europe - once Hitler thought it wise to create a second front with the Russians, perhaps after seeing their rather poor performance in the Winter War with Finland, which was influenced on the Russians as a double-secret part of the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact pact. Had the Nazi’s won at Stalingrad, rather than losing and getting chased back to Berlin, losing all the way, the outcome on the Western front would have been much different. Had the Nazi’s not invaded the Soviet Union and the Soviets remained co-belligerents with the Nazi’s moving Westward, the last stand would have been in perhaps Paris and that may well have happened in late 1943 before Eisenhower had his pieces in place for anything like D-Day. So in the 21st century if Europe unites and decides it’s a good idea to take on Russia and at the same time land in Canada and surgically take on only red states, is this offensive going to marshall together between Alberta and Manitoba and plunge southwards into Montana and the Dakotas? Sure, try and carry a million troops into the Hudson Bay without half the ships being sunk by US submarines. Any invasion of the USA is ludicrous. So Europe keeps that plan on hold while they take on Russia, who no longer have the seemingly endless infantry they had in WWII. I doubt the USA would either help or hinder Europe in that scenario and China would find it a really good time to grab some of Eastern Russia and South Korea. The next plausible conflict we’re likely to see is what China’s navy can do to take Taiwan and if Trump is inclined to interfere with the US Navy. Sure, last year Trump made some veiled remarks about China and Taiwan, “Chine knows what I’ll do” yet that was last year and Taiwan has seen how the USA has turned on Ukraine. And that leaves out what Iran and Israel might decide to do. Iran only has a huge standing army and pretty decent air force. I suppose only the CIA/MI-6/FSB and maybe Mossad knows if Iran has any nukes ready to go in any capacity. And _that_ still leaves out what Pakistan and India might decide to do. Heck, they might just _start off_ lobbing nukes at each other. In any scenario, no country with nukes is going to capitulate without resorting to using them. The movie WarGames depicts the WOPR computer playing out lots of eventualities and all of them lead to Global Thermonuclear War with no winners. I don’t recall any of that being written off as Hollywood fiction. It’s MAD and Dr. Strangelove and “We’ll meet again”. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/242 "2025-03-01T22:57:49Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Trump has not been wrong that NATO countries have (mostly) not lived up to their treaty commitments. That leaves the US. You know, I actually went and _looked up_ the foundational NATO documents and their subsequent amendments. There was NEVER an obligatory amount of defense spending in NATO. _Never_. There was a SUGGESTED level, but suggestion is all it ever was. There were no penalties for not taking the suggestion. So, please, let none of us repeat the distortion/lies/misinformation/whatever it is that “NATO countries haven’t lived up to their treaty commitments” when those commitments/obligations/whatever they’re being called this week never existed as anything other than a _suggestion._ And, by the way, since the invasion of Ukraine EVERY NATO country has, in fact, increased their defense spending. > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > Defence expenditures and NATO’s 2% guideline > > NATO has a common definition of defence expenditure since the early 1950s. The definition is agreed by all NATO Allies. It is regularly reviewed, most recently in early 2024. - [SOURCE](https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_49198.htm) > > I thought it is more now but this will do for starters. Do you see the word GUIDELINE there? Not “obligation” or “requirement”. GUIDELINE\> Just because the US, on its own, decided to commit more resources to defense than any European country is entirely on the US. That was the US government’s choice (presumably supported over the years by most of the citizenry). No one forced the US to do that. Nor does that fact that the US choose to do that mean that any other nation did something wrong or failed to do something good. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > So, a couple of days ago we got to see Macron sitting next to Trump. Now Zelensky. Both speaking in other than their native tongue. > > Is there ANY foreign leader whom Trump could look better than? No. I mean, hell, Trump barely speaks _American_ and that’s his only and native language. > [@RickJay](#): > > As a Canadian, I think my country hasn’t spent enough on its military. But I will apologize to the USA for that on the day an American can name ONE of the many Canadians who were killed and maimed in Afghanistan fighting back against those who caused and helped 9/11. Most don’t even know we were there. Well, I could name one, but I’m not going to because your country has NOTHING to apologize for. At all. You are the best neighbors any country could possibly have and I am deeply, deeply ashamed my nation has taken a giant shit on your nation. So please, accept MY apology to YOU for the disrespect my government has shown your fine, upstanding, and exceedingly courteous nation and government. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/243 "2025-03-01T23:06:35Z")
They’ll need energy to sustain the kinds of industrial capacity required for a real ramp-up in military production, and right now, they just don’t have it. What Europe needs in order to beef up its own military and energy security is going to take time to design, develop, and implement. Not saying they can’t achieve it, but they really need to get serious fast. ---
**Author:** ![natureboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/4491bb/32.png) [@natureboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/natureboy)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/244 "2025-03-01T23:23:38Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Just because the US, on its own, decided to commit more resources to defense than any European country is entirely on the US. That was the US government’s choice (presumably supported over the years by most of the citizenry). No one forced the US to do that. Nor does that fact that the US choose to do that mean that any other nation did something wrong or failed to do something good. Indeed, the US committed more resources to NATO because NATO helped the US project more power, including into spheres of former Soviet (read _Russian_) influence. Even under Democratic presidents, the US wanted to perpetuate the security umbrella indefinitely because like our global financial system, it was a tool for power. I think the scene yesterday was a disgrace that will be seared into the memories of our allies for years to come. People will ask years from now “_Where were you when America became completely unrecognizable?_” That aside, Europe should have been thinking of its own energy, economic, and military/national security long before now. The warning signs were during the first Trump term. The intervening four years between his failed autogolpe and the November 2024 elections were time wasted. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/245 "2025-03-01T23:31:59Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Sure, let’s advocate for empowering fanatics and committing mass war crimes. That’s a rational line of thinking, especially against a country with a large nuclear retaliatory capability and a current leader who loves to talk about opportunities for using them. Did you think that the allies working with Stalin to defeat Hitler was a bad idea? Did you think that the partisan fighters in occupied Europe were in the wrong? No one from America is going to stop him. There are no “good Republicans” who are going to show up and stop him. His supporters are not going to “come to their senses.” He will ignore any court orders he does not like. No one in America will stop him. Every day, there is another outrageous step and every day old white boomers normalize this lunacy. “The Straight Dope, we’d fight fascism, but we’re already in our pajamas and Matlock is on.” America must be stopped. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/246 "2025-03-01T23:35:58Z")
Why was Rubio even there? He’s probably thinking “I gave up a Senate seat for this?” When he was nominated I thought he was the least objectionable of the bunch, but he has become nothing more that a sycophant. Little Marco indeed. Although not as bad as the Donnie and JD show was the Republicans circling the wagons immediately after. We found out that there is no bottom to the Lindsay Graham barrel. Jesus, Lindsay, you can lick Donnie’s boots all you want but he still isn’t going to ask you to prom. You’re not his bestie, you’re just another schmuck willing to prostitute himself and for what? Shameful. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/247 "2025-03-01T23:36:14Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > We’re getting rid of a bunch of inventory that’s just sitting around doing nothing, we’re getting paid for it, US manufacturers are going to get paid to restock our munitions, and we get to see how these things work on a real life battlefield. It’s great for us. The problem I’m finding is they don’t see Russia as an enemy. That isn’t the only problem, there’s at least two more IME. The first is that everything you just said goes over their heads. Bag o’ cash being put on a plane to Ukraine is understandable. Geopolitical strategies and inventory management is way too complex. The second is that Russian propaganda has infiltrated the magasphere. So half the time I talk to pro-russian magas they’ll ask me about Zelensky’s $10 million yacht or whatever and I have to firefight the bollocks. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/248 "2025-03-01T23:36:32Z")
Just a quick reminder… From shortly after Trump’s “perfect call” with Volodomyr Zelenskyy: In a “60 Minutes” interview that aired Sunday, Scott Pelley asked House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy about the phone call between Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that now sits at the center of Democrats’ impeachment inquiry into the President. And then this happened: Pelley: What do you make of this exchange? President Zelensky says, “We are almost ready to buy more Javelins from the United States for defense purposes.” And President Trump replies, “I would like you to do us a favor though.” McCarthy: You just added another word. Pelley: No, it’s in the transcript. McCarthy: He said - “I’d like you to do a favor though?” Pelley: Yes, it’s in the White House transcript. The implication is obvious: It’s Kevin McCarthy’s belief that – if Trump _had_ said, “I’d like you to do a favor, _though,_” that Trump would _clearly_ have been trying to extort Zelenskyy into “digging up” (ie, fabricating) damning evidence on Joe Biden, Trump’s likely political opponent. McCarthy tried to side with Trump, implying that there was no way Trump would have said that. But – of course – it’s exactly what Trump said. > **[Kevin McCarthy just proved how hard Republicans have to work to say Trump did...](https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/30/politics/kevin-mccarthy-ukraine-60-minutes)** > > In a “60 Minutes” interview that aired Sunday, Scott Pelley asked House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy about the phone call between Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky that now sits at the center of Democrats’ impeachment inquiry... “I gave you Javelins. Obama gave you sheets.” Dumbed down sufficiently, there isn’t _any_ lie that Trump supporters won’t buy. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/249 "2025-03-01T23:52:13Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Every day, there is another outrageous step and every day old white boomers normalize this lunacy. Remind me? Elon Musk, the leader of the lunacy, was born in what year? I’d ask about all of Elon’s band of twenty-something year old monkey-wrenchers but that’s obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2025, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/250 "2025-03-01T23:57:42Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > America must be stopped. How would that even begin to occur? Sanctions? Refusing to trade? Changing the PetroDollar to the Euro or something from BRICS? The United Nations (presumably from somewhere besides the East side of Manhattan? Militarily? Maybe if Europe and China both threw the entire force of their militaries. It would be good to be a coordinated surprise attack. You are severely underestimating the power the USA can project if so inclined. And again I’ll state any attack on the lower 48 would be ludicrous. ETA: There is probably enough American troops, Navy and Air Force in Europe right now to put a lot of hurt on any European declaration of War. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/251 "2025-03-02T00:05:28Z")
Or, perhaps at some point Putin decides Trump is more valuable as a right wing martyr than a live agent of chaos ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/252 "2025-03-02T00:54:42Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > The first is that everything you just said goes over their heads. Bag o’ cash being put on a plane to Ukraine is understandable. Geopolitical strategies and inventory management is way too complex. You’re right. I’ve tried explaining to MAGAts how foreign aid works as a way for the United States to have influence at a relatively low price but it doesn’t work. “We should spend that money on veterans,” is my MAGA mother’s reply. Given that 30% of the federal workforce are veterans, I should ask my mom how veterans are being helped by all the layoffs and the cuts to the Veteran’s Administration itself. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/253 "2025-03-02T01:00:41Z")
You cannot have a reasonable discussion with one of these people. MAGAts don’t do logic. Or facts. 🤯 ---
**Author:** ![dougrb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/76d3ee/32.png) [@dougrb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougrb)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/254 "2025-03-02T01:11:11Z")
> [@Coriolanus](#): > > How would that even begin to occur? Sanctions? Refusing to trade? > [@The Trump Administration: The Clusterfuck Continues](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-trump-administration-the-clusterfuck-continues/1010068/2604): > > [[image] ](https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:2ywby725qcwv7rqdotimk7mp/bafkreicbjlw7cuauzdacsco2igfwacytf2ejoc2dfy57r7x3covqtqwdtq@jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/255 "2025-03-02T01:16:37Z")
Yes & thanks. I’d just commented on it and was going to say, "before getting all belligerent towards American forces in Europe before ostracizing them (deservedly yet not everyone in the armed forces is a republican or MAGA-head), Germany, UK & Poland in particular have to give them the boot. It happened in Okinawa and the Philippines. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/256 "2025-03-02T01:33:14Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Do you see the word GUIDELINE there? Not “obligation” or “requirement”. GUIDELINE\> Is that the game you want to play? You know what else is a GUIDELINE? Article 5 mutual defense in NATO: > _“The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognized by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area._ - [SOURCE](https://www.nato.int/cps/uk/natohq/topics_110496.htm?selectedLocale=en) ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/257 "2025-03-02T01:35:13Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > You know what else is a GUIDELINE? Article 5 mutual defense in NATO It helps your argument if your cite actually uses the word “guideline” somewhere in it. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/258 "2025-03-02T01:36:25Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > …such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force,… That’s a guideline. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/259 "2025-03-02T01:36:47Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > That’s a guideline. So, it’s optional, is what you seem to be saying. And, apparently, so is paying that 2%. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2025, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940/260 "2025-03-02T01:37:16Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > So, it’s optional. And, apparently, so is paying that 2%. That’s my point. Thanks. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-disgusting-shakedown-of-zelensky/1014940.md?page=14)