# Trump's distraction du jour. Pardon convicted war criminals over Pentagon objections. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 16, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514 "2019-11-16T00:00:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/61 "2019-11-24T23:23:52Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > for NOW, but subject to repeated change at any time, for no reason at all. He’ll wait till the furor dies down, then do it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/62 "2019-11-24T23:30:49Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Jonathan Lemire](https://twitter.com/JonLemire/status/1198727799034597376), _AP_: > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Rebecca Ballhaus](https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/status/1198727813693689858), _WSJ_: > [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Jake Tapper](https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1198739031263252487), _CNN_: not resigned - fired - for doing what this administration does best - fucking things up - > [@https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/24/politics/pentagon-mark-esper-richard-spencer/index.html](#): > > Navy Secretary Richard Spencer was “fired for proposing a secret agreement with the White House” involving the case of Navy SEAL Eddie Gallagher, according to a senior defense official. > > Spencer was proposing a review with a secret guarantee that Gallagher would be allowed to keep his status as a Navy SEAL, the official said. Spencer, the official said, was not fired for failing to carry out Trump’s wishes, because the President had not wanted a review at all. > > Spencer went around his own chain of command – namely Defense Secretary Mark Esper – and straight to the White House, a violation of military policy, the official said. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/63 "2019-11-24T23:32:22Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > In order to do this, however, you have to have a military leadership that understands it cannot question the president. That means getting rid of the professionals and replacing them with ambitious idiots, which the president seems to do pretty well across all of the agencies in his dominion. Surely there are no ambitious idiots in the US military. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/64 "2019-11-24T23:34:01Z")
SECDEF’s statement passes neither sniff nor laugh tests. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/65 "2019-11-24T23:40:29Z")
> [@simster](#): > > not resigned - fired - for doing what this administration does best - fucking things up - [Jake Tapper](https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1198744525696618497), _CNN_: > [@](#): > > I deleted them retweeted the Secretary of Navy’s letter because it’s more accurate to describe it as an “acknowledgement of termination” letter (and NOT resignation letter) — apologies [Jake Tapper](https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1198744260608176130), _CNN_: > [@](#): > > Outgoing Secretary of the Navy Spencer’s acknowledgment-of-termination letter says that he “cannot in good conscience” obey an order he believes “violates the sacred oath“ he took & that he and POTUS disagree on the “key principle of good order and discipline” _[Letter attached]_ ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/66 "2019-11-25T00:17:17Z")
It was a setup. Spencer was probably told to communicate directly with the president, and when he did, got fired for usurping the chain of command. ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/67 "2019-11-25T00:22:02Z")
I’m kind of having a hard time following this, is Esper the jerk or is it Spencer? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/68 "2019-11-25T00:30:55Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I’m kind of having a hard time following this, is Esper the jerk or is it Spencer? [Jeremy Diamond](https://twitter.com/JDiamond1/status/1198749662930493441), _CNN_: > [@](#): > > There are now 3 versions of Spencer firing: > TRUMP: Navy treated Gallagher badly + cost overruns > ESPER: Spencer sidestepped DOD, made secret proposal to WH to allow Gallagher to retire w/ Trident pin > SPENCER: Resigned because he couldn’t obey Trump order on Gallagher ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/69 "2019-11-25T01:12:13Z")
> [@pool](#): > > I’m kind of having a hard time following this, is Esper the jerk or is it Spencer? Yes. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/70 "2019-11-25T01:44:22Z")
IMO, the most likely thing is that Trump wanted to intervene, Spencer threatened to resign, Trump was insulted and fired him, and the “went behind secdef’s back” story is cover. It doesn’t make sense that Spencer would need a secret deal to reinstate Gallagher’s rank when he’s the only one of the three opposed to it. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/71 "2019-11-25T02:22:29Z")
…and let’s consider who ultimately benefits the most from controversies between a Russian asset and the professional military? ---
**Author:** ![River\_Hippie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/river_hippie/32/26_2.png) [@River\_Hippie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/River_Hippie)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/72 "2019-11-25T03:03:23Z")
What’d Pelosi say? “With Trump, all roads lead to Moscow.” Something like that. ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/73 "2019-11-25T04:53:52Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > What’d Pelosi say? “With Trump, all roads lead to Moscow.” Something like that. Replace “Moscow” with “Putin” and you have it. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/74 "2019-11-25T16:59:32Z")
[Jim Sciutto](https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1199003899732119553), _CNN_: > [@](#): > > New: SecDef Esper says Trump ordered him to allow Eddie Gallagher to remain a SEAL. “He wanted Eddie Gallagher’s (trident) pin restored and I said roger, I got it,” Esper said. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/75 "2019-11-25T17:35:17Z")
> [@Bijou\_Drains](#): > > Trump backs down for now, will not intervene. > > [Secretary of Navy says Trump’s tweet is not a formal order | AP News](https://apnews.com/fa25ecd5399b45529ece8f77ff71cfcd) Guess not. He found some other scumbag toady to do his dirty work for him … AGAIN. The SecDef has fired the SecNav. Because ONCE AGAIN, Trump wanted it but DIDN’T HAVE THE FUCKING BALLS to do his own dirty work. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/76 "2019-11-25T19:19:21Z")
This whole thing will play well with the Republican electorate, honestly, which does include a great deal of veterans and service members. They will read this as: “Trump will move heaven and earth to salvage the name of a tip-of-the-spear warfighter who was thrown under the bus by military bureaucracy.” Put aside the facts of the case; those are the optics. The idea that the _Secretary of the Navy_ could be forced to step down, over one individual enlisted Sailor, because of the intervention of the President, will resonate with a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/77 "2019-11-25T19:34:45Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > The idea that the _Secretary of the Navy_ could be forced to step down, over one individual enlisted Sailor, because of the intervention of the President, will resonate with a lot of people. So fucking what? If the last 30 or so Trump-ups wasn’t enough to make people arise and do something about Our National Disgrace what makes you think this incident will make a ghod damn bit of difference? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/78 "2019-11-25T19:36:03Z")
[Kyle Griffin](https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1199031269079834625), _MSNBC_: > [@](#): > > Ex-Navy Sec’y Ray Mabus: The firing of Sec’y Spencer and Trump’s actions regarding Eddie Gallagher “dishonors the military [and] causes chaos & confusion. It undermines accountability, it undermines the rule of law, it undermines good order and discipline in the military.” @MSNBC ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/79 "2019-11-25T21:38:59Z")
You do know if that fake SEAL (there is now no way for him to avoid that moniker) had killed a Christian, the republican base would be calling for him to hang. But he killed a Muslim. I’d bet real money some of that base jerk off when they read about that and how their “perfect” president is protect him now. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/80 "2019-11-25T22:32:42Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > So fucking what? If the last 30 or so Trump-ups wasn’t enough to make people arise and do something about Our National Disgrace what makes you think this incident will make a ghod damn bit of difference? I don’t think **Lamoral** was saying that the Secretary’s dismissal would be viewed negatively by Trump’s opponents. Rather, he was saying that it would be viewed positively by Trump’s supporters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514.md?page=5)