# Trump's distraction du jour. Pardon convicted war criminals over Pentagon objections. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 16, 2019, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514 "2019-11-16T00:00:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/81 "2019-11-25T22:35:16Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Not necessarily. It’s not unheard of for a nest of scheming snakes to keep some useless figurehead in power because that way their individual onus is on their managing to cajole the useless figurehead (a trivial task) and finding a way to keep the other snakes from having access to the idiot piñata. > Contrast with one of the snakes claiming power, thereby now having to play against ALL the other snakes at once, and directly ; while the other snakes get to worry that now one of the snakes wields a _whole lot_ of direct power and might be bright enough to know exactly who to use it on. > > A good figurehead (like, say, Louis XIV) is aware of this and can play the snakes against each other to stay in power. But a dumb or ineffectual one (like, say, Yeltsin) can also skate by, utterly oblivious to what’s going on behind their back, just because his non-existence would cause more trouble than his existence. Thanks for posting this. I think it’s very insightful. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/82 "2019-11-25T22:56:02Z")
> [@River\_Hippie](#): > > What’d Pelosi say? “. . . all roads lead to Moscow.” No, that was [Al Stewart](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjKajpMoUxM). ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/83 "2019-11-25T22:57:56Z")
> [@psychonaut](#): > > I don’t think **Lamoral** was saying that the Secretary’s dismissal would be viewed negatively by Trump’s opponents. Rather, he was saying that it would be viewed positively by Trump’s supporters. Correct. Trump has been very effective at convincing a lot of voters that he’s fighting for “the little guy.” Insomuch as anyone in a SEAL platoon can be considered “the little guy”, I guess that’s still what said enlisted sailor amounts to when compared to the vast bureaucracy of the Navy. I can already hear Trump saying “Eddie Gallagher, folks” at his next rally and the crowd erupting in applause. ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/84 "2019-11-26T00:54:36Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Guess not. He found some other scumbag toady to do his dirty work for him … AGAIN. > > The SecDef has fired the SecNav. > > Because ONCE AGAIN, Trump wanted it but DIDN’T HAVE THE FUCKING BALLS to do his own dirty work. Aside from smearing his character on Twitter and at rallies, there’s nothing more Trump can do to Spencer now that he’s been fired, right? ---
**Author:** ![racepug](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@racepug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/racepug)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/85 "2019-11-26T01:34:42Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Correct. Trump has been very effective at convincing a lot of voters that he’s fighting for “the little guy.” Insomuch as anyone in a SEAL platoon can be considered “the little guy”, I guess that’s still what said enlisted sailor amounts to when compared to the vast bureaucracy of the Navy. I can already hear Trump saying “Eddie Gallagher, folks” at his next rally and the crowd erupting in applause. I think you’ve absolutely hit the nail on the head with this. Well done (to you. Not to Lid’l’ Donny Drumpf). ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/86 "2019-11-26T02:02:03Z")
[Trump wants Eddie Gallagher to campaign alongside him in 2020](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-tells-allies-he-wants-absolved-war-criminals-to-campaign-for-him) (_The Daily Beast_). ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/87 "2019-11-26T02:06:26Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/88 "2019-11-26T02:34:30Z")
A fine idea! He can parade his pet war criminal around, bragging about how the guy murdered so many people his own unit was scared of him. Ya gotta be a Real American to scare SEALs, right? A brilliant tactical move, it’ll have the base pulling at their beards even harder while any Americans who still haven’t learned Trump’s not fit to shovel shit from one place to another will get a chance to find out. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/89 "2019-11-26T02:35:09Z")
I wonder how many other Eddie Gallaghers are out there, willing to go on Fox News and usurp their chain of command. Militaries can’t function like this. The Republicans who enable this are fucking traitors. I don’t give a fuck what people have to say about my opinions. My extreme rhetoric is justified, and you all know it. I’m right. I always have been. We have to be ready for the attack on freedom and the constitution. We have to be prepared for when democracy and freedom are ignored. If you are not outraged, if you are not full of piss, if you don’t hate those who are doing this to your country, then you’re the problem. Rage isn’t wrong. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/90 "2019-11-26T02:39:39Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Trump wants Eddie Gallagher to campaign alongside him in 2020](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-tells-allies-he-wants-absolved-war-criminals-to-campaign-for-him) (_The Daily Beast_). Reading the article > [@](#): > > Trump talk about how he’d like to have the now-cleared Clint Lorance, Matthew Golsteyn, or Edward Gallagher show up at his 2020 rallies, How does pardon = “now cleared”? (doesn’t that imply innocent as opposed to pardoned?) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/91 "2019-11-26T02:50:57Z")
#Ready&Prepared #CirclesMakeTheBestFiringSquads #Warblegarble CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/92 "2019-11-26T03:16:48Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Jim Sciutto](https://twitter.com/jimsciutto/status/1199003899732119553), _CNN_: Jesus Christ, the guy shot a kid and other civilians. _His own guys_ sabotaged his weapon—and then turned him in. And those are just the things that he did in front of witnesses. ---
**Author:** ![margin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/65b543/32.png) [@margin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/margin)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/93 "2019-11-26T03:26:21Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > A fine idea! He can parade his pet war criminal around, bragging about how the guy murdered so many people his own unit was scared of him. Ya gotta be a Real American to scare SEALs, right? A brilliant tactical move, it’ll have the base pulling at their beards even harder while any Americans who still haven’t learned Trump’s not fit to shovel shit from one place to another will get a chance to find out. Reminds me of a shitty NCO I had. First, he put an inexperienced driver behind the wheel of a Humvee, then tried to outrun an ambush on a difficult road. Three dead or permanently disabled, and the fucker didn’t even get the only one still walking from his vehicle her Purple Heart. Saw him with a shaky hyper pale sweaty twig of a kid after Fallujah. His influence was obvious: the kid bragged about thirteen “kills”, but he already had that thousand-yard stare and he shivered like a caffeinated Chihuahua in a thunderstorm. Meanwhile, our CO told us to take one more breath. He saved me some nightmares when I wound up looking down the barrel at a driver who’d rammed our front passenger side, just like a suicide bomber. One breath gives you time to realize he wasn’t a suicide bomber, he was just a dumbass. There were more than the two flavors of terrorist or…bewildering person in what certain types called a “mandress.” ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/94 "2019-11-26T03:27:12Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > How does pardon = “now cleared”? (doesn’t that imply innocent as opposed to pardoned?) Not sure, probably a typo/error. _Politico_: [Trump’s strain with Pentagon inspires talk of more departures](https://www.politico.com/news/2019/11/25/trump-strain-pentagon-more-departures-073821) > [@](#): > > Navy Secretary Richard Spencer’s ouster was just the latest collision between military leaders and the president, who has repeatedly ignored or overruled their advice. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/95 "2019-11-26T03:49:46Z")
There’s lots of reasons for the US military to be annoyed at Trump/the White House: • Syria (overruling military advice, no advance warning, strategic retreat with tail between legs, ceding strategic influence to rivals, abandoning Kurdish allies) • war crimes clemencies (and politicized championing of perpetrators) • orchestrated White House attacks on active duty Lt. Col. Vindman • weakening NATO and relationships with NATO allies • pulling out of international agreement and bringing US military to brink of war with Iran • hiking prices for South Korean allies and cozying with North Korea • cozying with strategic enemy Putin/Russia • US military used as mercenary force in Saudi Arabia • banning transgender people from serving in the military • redirecting military forces and funding to the U.S.-Mexico border • weighing in publicly on individual military procurement projects • the White House may have sought to conceal the name of the destroyer USS John S. McCain when Trump was visiting Japan last spring. • demanding that the Navy switch back to old-fashioned steam catapults for its next generation of aircraft carriers Probably missed a few. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/96 "2019-11-26T04:17:12Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > People like Trump aim to destroy the rules because the rules - be they the UMCJ or the USC or state laws - constrain him, and the rules define what’s legal, what’s constitutional, what’s normal. Authoritarians like Trump don’t want those things defined by texts; he wants to be the one to define what the rules are, what the laws are. He’s not so much an authoritarian as a me-tarian, though. There’s two kinds of people who get labeled “authoritarian”, but they’re very different ones. On one hand, you have those who have a lot of faith in authority; people who truly and sincerely believe that the boss is always right (1). On the other, you have those who reject any authority but their own, but who will quickly cry to mommy when the chips fall down. SovCits, armchair anarchists and just general assholes with no particular political beliefs other than “you can’t tell ME what to do!”. His followers have a mixture of both. 1: often, when these are made boss they totally freak out, as being made boss has not provided them with absolute wisdom. Rather than realize that other bosses also do not possess a pet Athena sitting on their shoulder, they think it must be them who are doing something wrong, or their subordinates who are being recalcitrant. They’re not merely bossy, they’re micromanagers. ---
**Author:** ![Snarky\_Kong](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/97 "2019-11-26T07:31:21Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > [Trump wants Eddie Gallagher to campaign alongside him in 2020](https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-tells-allies-he-wants-absolved-war-criminals-to-campaign-for-him) (_The Daily Beast_). This is so incredibly fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [November 26, 2019, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/98 "2019-11-26T19:02:33Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > This is so incredibly fucked up. As I’ve said, this is the politicization of the military: it’s the most dangerous step a sitting president can make. It’s the greatest danger to the American republic - full stop. This danger cannot be overstated. It also naturally plays right into Putin’s (and China’s) hands. They get to sit back and watch as **traitors** dressed up as members of congress peddle a narrative that stands in complete polar opposition to the reality as pieced together by intelligence officials, which in turns causes political fractures. ---
**Author:** ![RioRico](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f04885/32.png) [@RioRico](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RioRico)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/99 "2019-11-27T21:52:53Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > It also naturally plays right into Putin’s (and China’s) hands. That pee tape must be vivid. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514/100 "2019-11-27T22:11:23Z")
> [@RioRico](#): > > That pee tape must be vivid. Not necessarily. It could be caballero. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-distraction-du-jour-pardon-convicted-war-criminals-over-pentagon-objections/843514.md?page=6)