# Trump's Executive Order on Immigration - Let it Rip Dopers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468 "2017-01-29T01:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/261 "2017-01-30T17:50:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > This is a ridiculous justification. The two lists are not the same. I’m less than convinced by the statements from the people who have lied over and over again since inauguration. This. Thanks for picking this up and running with it. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/262 "2017-01-30T17:52:56Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Even if this ban were a good idea, which it most certainly is not, the way in which it was carried out was moronic. As another analyst said: “It was like amateur night at the Apollo Theater.” Embassies were not warned. Border-security personnel were not warned. Etc. Perhaps this is the wrong thread, but I have read speculation that the confusion was intentional. Trump’s administration is trying to sow dissent, so as to have cover for other changes and so as to have cause to grab more power. Honestly, that’s a lot more plausible than “they are all bumbling idiots”. Trump is certainly an unpleasant person, but I don’t think he’s stupid. And I think he is telling the truth when he smiles and says “it is working beautifully”. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/263 "2017-01-30T17:54:13Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Now you have literally millions of citizens in the United States who were either right about Trump being the next Hitler, and we will see that behavior emerge from him soon, or they are complete morons. That’s a trigger for cognitive dissonance. The science says these frightened folks will start interpreting all they see as Hitler behavior no matter how ridiculous it might seem to the objective observer. And sure enough, we are seeing that. Wait, so all people who are opposed to the immigration ban have stated Trump is equivalent to Hitler? Not some of them, but _all_ of them? What Adams is using here is an absolutely classic straw man argument; someone says what Trump is doing is wrong, so rather than arguing the merits of that opposition, Adams claims they’re equating Trump to Hitler and so they’re wrong. It’s clever, but only a very stupid person would fall for Adams’s shell game. Obviously, while Hitler comparisons are thrown around for every President, in fact most people opposing Trump do NOT think he is the same as Adolf Hitler, because until he starts a world war and murders millions of people in camps, he’s not. Adams’s point is, in fact, deliberately dishonest. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/264 "2017-01-30T18:07:12Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > The countries were selected based on a 2016 law that had a list of “countries of concern” that was signed by Obama. Short version: there were a number of lists from the Obama years that they could have chosen. They ignored a bunch of more obvious, logical choices, and glommed onto one that makes a lot less sense. For the long version, I’m just going to quote [Kevin Drum](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/president-trumps-immigration-order-muslim-ban), since he’s already done the legwork: > [@](#): > > According to Giuliani, the “right way to do it legally” was to focus on “areas of the world that create danger for us.” There are several plausible possibilities here. The most obvious one is to ban entry from residents of countries that have been designated as [state sponsors of terrorism](https://www.state.gov/j/ct/list/c14151.htm). However, that includes only three countries (Iran, Sudan, Syria). Alternatively, the State Department has a list of [terrorist safe havens](https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2015/257522.htm). But this includes places like Egypt, Pakistan, the Philippines, Colombia, Malaysia, and Lebanon, which the Trump administration apparently didn’t want to include. Another possibility is countries that have been the site of major terrorist attacks. However, [according to the Global Terrorism Database](https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/), in 2014-15 this included several majority-Christian countries (Nigeria, Ukraine, Kenya), several US allies (Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan) and excluded several countries that Trump has specifically called out (Iran, Libya). > > After exhausting these obvious possibilities, Giuliani’s team finally dug up the far-from-obvious list of places that have been designated as “[countries of concern](https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program)” under the Visa Waiver Act. Conveniently, this includes seven countries that are collectively 97 percent Muslim, but none of which are sensitive US allies. Also, nobody from those seven countries has been responsible for any terrorist fatalities in the United States, but people from countries left off the list sure have been. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/265 "2017-01-30T18:21:40Z")
[ACLU Raises Six Times Their Annual Donations In Just One Weekend](https://trofire.com/2017/01/30/achieving-stay-muslim-ban-aclu-raises-six-times-annual-donations-just-one-weekend/). "From Saturday morning to Sunday evening, the ACLU received donations from 356,306 individuals in the sum of $24,164,691. By comparison, the ACLU says that they typically receive $3-4 million in donations per _year_. " ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/266 "2017-01-30T18:26:21Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > More so when a super conservative Republican donor like Charles Koch does think now what Trump is: > > [Billionaire Republican donor Charles Koch likens Donald Trump's Muslim ban to Adolf Hitler's policies in Nazi Germany | The Independent | The Independent](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-muslim-travel-ban-billionaire-republican-donor-charles-koch-likens-policy-to-adolf-a7552531.html) Koch was one of the premier anti-Trumpers. This statement of his is exactly what Adams is writing about. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/267 "2017-01-30T18:27:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > No. Federal law enforcement are effectively immune from arrest by state officials, and no branch of the federal government may direct state law enforcement personnel anyway. > > A federal judge can - at least theoretically - direct U.S. Marshals to arrest other federal officials. I _highly_ doubt you’ll see that happen. Follow-up question - is local law enforcement allowed to assist U.S Marshals in performing their duties, if it so chooses? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/268 "2017-01-30T18:29:02Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Koch was one of the premier anti-Trumpers. This statement of his is exactly what Adams is writing about. Is a cartoonist the best political “expert” you can find to follow? Sad. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/269 "2017-01-30T18:29:48Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > This. Thanks for picking this up and running with it. Yes, **it is the same list**. February, 2016: “The Department of Homeland Security today announced that it is continuing its implementation of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015 with **the addition of Libya, Somalia, and Yemen as three countries of concern** , limiting Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals who have traveled to these countries. … the three additional countries designated today **join Iran, Iraq, Sudan and Syria** as countries subject to restrictions for Visa Waiver Program travel for certain individuals.” What is that “Visa Waiver Program” thing you say? And what is “certain individuals”? > **[Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act...](https://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/visa-waiver-program/visa-waiver-program-improvement-and-terrorist-travel-prevention-act-faq)** > > Securing America's Borders "Under the Act, travelers in the following categories are no longer eligible to travel or be admitted to the United States under the VWP: Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, or countries listed under specified designation lists (currently including Iran and Sudan) at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions). Nationals of VWP countries who have been present in Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, at any time on or after March 1, 2011 (with limited government/military exceptions)." ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/270 "2017-01-30T18:35:13Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Wait, so all people who are opposed to the immigration ban have stated Trump is equivalent to Hitler? Not some of them, but _all_ of them? Can you quote the part of Adams’ blog that made you post this - that is, that in says that “all” of the people who are opposed to the immigration ban have stated Trump is equivalent to Hitler? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/271 "2017-01-30T18:35:43Z")
The best defense for this awful, inhumane, unAmerican, and bigoted policy that harms legal immigrants, including interpreters that risked their lives to aid American service men and women, is that Obama passed a bill with the same list of countries (along with many, many others with different lists), which didn’t harm legal green card holders in any way. Whatever the justification, it’s an awful, inhumane, unAmerican, and bigoted policy. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/272 "2017-01-30T18:37:23Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Is a cartoonist the best political “expert” you can find to follow? > Sad. This cartoonist for more than a year managed to make political predictions about Trump and the primaries / elections that were right on the money. Unlike all the “experts”. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/273 "2017-01-30T18:42:47Z")
Yes, they were adding _some_ security to foreign nationals from certain trusted countries who were traveling here with no visa required, IF THEY HAD VISITED THE COUNTRIES ON THE LIST. How is that even close to what Trump is now doing? This list was previously used to help secure A GAPING hole in our security where people were allowed to travel here WITHOUT ANY VISA. Sorry for the caps, but FFS! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/274 "2017-01-30T18:43:27Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > This cartoonist for more than a year managed to make political predictions about Trump and the primaries / elections that were right on the money. Unlike all the “experts”. That’s what you are claiming? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/275 "2017-01-30T18:43:37Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > This cartoonist for more than a year managed to make political predictions about Trump and the primaries / elections that were right on the money. Unlike all the “experts”. His predictions changed constantly. At one point he predicted an overwhelming Hillary victory. He was incredibly inconsistent, even day to day. He lucked into being right this time, barely. By the way, Adams rather notoriously created a sock-puppet to lavish praise upon himself on discussions on other websites until he finally admitted it. So an admitted sock-puppet egomaniac praises another egomaniac (Trump), changes his predictions over and over again, and happens to land on the right one at the end. Not terribly impressive. ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/276 "2017-01-30T18:53:17Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Not terribly impressive. I would say Adams’ record was way more impressive than the “expert”'s assurances of [“Dear Media, Stop Freaking Out About Donald Trump’s Polls”](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dear-media-stop-freaking-out-about-donald-trumps-polls/) ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/277 "2017-01-30T18:55:01Z")
Remember when Trump won in a landslide? Me neither. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/278 "2017-01-30T18:55:54Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > I would say Adams’ record was way more impressive than the “expert”'s assurances of > > [“Dear Media, Stop Freaking Out About Donald Trump’s Polls”](http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/dear-media-stop-freaking-out-about-donald-trumps-polls/) And if anyone here was using Nate Silver as their political guru you might have a point…but they aren’t, so you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/279 "2017-01-30T18:59:20Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Follow-up question - is local law enforcement allowed to assist U.S Marshals in performing their duties, if it so chooses? Providing information, probably. Participating in arrest or detention of federal officials, unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2017, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/280 "2017-01-30T19:04:08Z")
[Good to see that diplomats are drafting a dissent memo](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/us-diplomats-dissent-memo-trump_us_588f5901e4b08a14f7e70b8e?) to separate themselves from this deranged, bigoted, half-wit. This is a critical time in history. Either we resist this orange freak with all of our heart and soul, or the forces of darkness will win and the flame of liberty will be forever snuffed. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468.md?page=15)