# Trump's Executive Order on Immigration - Let it Rip Dopers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468 "2017-01-29T01:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/401 "2017-01-31T05:06:01Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Nor are any countries that export Eastern European prostitutes. Because, you know, there’s never any telling when Trump will want a new wife. That was suppose to be funny? ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/402 "2017-01-31T05:08:56Z")
> [@arfurvirus](#): > > They took a look at 325,000 people, **detained 109** , yes all of the screeching and tears for 109 people who were inconvenienced. By “inconvenienced”, you apparently mean “detained or deported”. That’s a pretty major “inconvenience”, especially for somebody who has left their former home because the US already promised them entry and now may be homeless or even in danger if that promise is arbitrarily revoked. And some of the people still detained (after more than two days, which also sounds like something more than mere “inconvenience”) are **legal permanent residents of the US** : green card holders who have lived here for years. This ban was not only an intrinsically bad thing to do, but clumsily done in the worst possible way with the maximum amount of disruption, chaos and loss of respect. A stupid plan, stupidly executed. Appalling, but not in the least surprising. [QUOTE=arfurvirus] Meanwhile in the real world Soro’ NGO’s are attempting to overthrow Hungry, I hope Sessions brings he and his son’s up on sedition charges. 🙂 [/QUOTE] This is apparently the “alternative facts” crowd’s attempt to spin the [current crackdown by authoritarian Hungarian premier Viktor Orban on Hungarian NGOs who have dared to criticize his right-wing policies](https://www.yahoo.com/news/hungary-set-turn-screws-soros-backed-ngos-061814169.html). Some of those NGOs receive funding from Hungarian-born George Soros’ Open Society Foundation, but Orban has also been threatening NGOs that receive funding from Norway and other foreign sources. Evidently, **arfurvirus** believes that supporting an organization that funds human-rights NGOs in Hungary makes Soros somehow liable to indictment on sedition charges in the United States. **arfurvirus** ’s understanding of facts is evidently on a par with his grasp of spelling and grammar. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/403 "2017-01-31T05:10:45Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …seriously: just leave Airman alone. :dubious: Thanks for the intervention, but **Airman** doesn’t have to discuss this with me if he doesn’t want to. Up to him. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/404 "2017-01-31T06:09:47Z")
We use green cards as a recruiting tool in Iraq and Afghanistan. Work for us, risk your family, and we will take care of you. Our people there need this to recruit reliable translators and intelligence. Can’t say I feel real good about that, but if they need it, they need it. So long as they are there on our dime, under our flag and wearing our uniform, and they need to be able to promise that for their own safety, there just isn’t any argument. Also they need to know they are telling the truth, because they all have to sleep at night and a lot of them have to shave. Cites? Google “Iraqi translators Muslim Ban” and take your pick. How do I know? Because I heard it and couldn’t friggin’ believe we would do that, so had to look it up. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/405 "2017-01-31T06:17:23Z")
> [@arfurvirus](#): > > Meanwhile in the real world Soro’ NGO’s are attempting to overthrow Hungry, > > I hope Sessions brings he and his son’s up on sedition charges. 🙂 I wasn’t sure if it was the lack of language ability or WTF you tried to say that proves you are stupid. Finally, I realized it is both. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/406 "2017-01-31T06:19:34Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Trump is certainly an unpleasant person, but I don’t think he’s stupid. Trump agrees with you that he isn’t stupid. > [@](#): > > My IQ is one of the highest — and you all know it! Please don’t feel so stupid or insecure; it’s not your fault. > [@](#): > > I’m speaking with myself, number one, because I have a very good brain and I’ve said a lot of things. > [@](#): > > I’m very highly educated. I know words; I have the best words. > [@](#): > > Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/407 "2017-01-31T06:36:32Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Perhaps this is the wrong thread, but I have read speculation that the confusion was intentional. Trump’s administration is trying to sow dissent, so as to have cover for other changes and so as to have cause to grab more power. Honestly, that’s a lot more plausible than “they are all bumbling idiots”. Trump is certainly an unpleasant person, but I don’t think he’s stupid. And I think he is telling the truth when he smiles and says “it is working beautifully”. He’s narrow minded and short-sighted enough; he’s not the kind of guy who says “and make sure we warn everybody involved”. But the minions who actually got it done? Yep, from those I certainly believe that they did it on purpose. Among other things, giving unclear instructions provides information about who has the bollocks to ask for clarification. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/408 "2017-01-31T07:34:42Z")
> [@arfurvirus](#): > > God are all these people stupid or retarded? > > Trump is parroting what FBHO had on the 7 or so countries from back in 2011(I believe was year). Where was the uproar when FBHO denied immigrant travel from these same countries? Jesus, how many times do I have to cite this to freakin’ dimwits in the same thread? [Kevin Drum](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2017/01/president-trumps-immigration-order-muslim-ban): > [@](#): > > According to Giuliani, the “right way to do it legally” was to focus on “areas of the world that create danger for us.” There are several plausible possibilities here. The most obvious one is to ban entry from residents of countries that have been designated as [state sponsors of terrorism](https://www.state.gov/j/ct/list/c14151.htm). However, that includes only three countries (Iran, Sudan, Syria). Alternatively, the State Department has a list of [terrorist safe havens.](https://www.state.gov/j/ct/rls/crt/2015/257522.htm) But this includes places like Egypt, Pakistan, the Philippines, Colombia, Malaysia, and Lebanon, which the Trump administration apparently didn’t want to include. Another possibility is countries that have been the site of major terrorist attacks. However, [according to the Global Terrorism Database](https://www.start.umd.edu/gtd/), in 2014-15 this included several majority-Christian countries (Nigeria, Ukraine, Kenya), several US allies (Egypt, Turkey, Pakistan) and excluded several countries that Trump has specifically called out (Iran, Libya). > > After exhausting these obvious possibilities, Giuliani’s team finally dug up the far-from-obvious list of places that have been designated as [“countries of concern”](https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/02/18/dhs-announces-further-travel-restrictions-visa-waiver-program) under the Visa Waiver Act. Conveniently, this includes seven countries that are collectively 97 percent Muslim, but none of which are sensitive US allies. Just because the Tantrum-in-Chief is whining, “I just used Obama’s list” doesn’t mean it’s true, and it certainly means you shouldn’t buy into it and parrot it without checking it first. Haven’t you dumbfucks gotten it through your head yet that the connection between Donald J. Trump and the truth is incidental at best? And that the same is true of his whole in-crowd? Bannon, Flynn, Sessions, Stephen Miller - these aren’t people who give a good goddamn about what’s true and what’s not. They’re rabble-rousers. And what does that make _you?_ ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 7:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/409 "2017-01-31T07:44:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > So what you’re saying is “The other side once did it so we get to do it, too” rather than “The other side did it but we will do the right thing and allow in refugees.” > > Is that about it? You’re just looking for an excuse to do wrong? That would be it. And he’s got to reach back more than 40 years to find the other side doing the same thing. Sheesh. And Robert Byrd was in the KKK once upon a time, so Nazi-friendly white nationalists like Steve Bannon are A-OK today, I guess. :mad: ---
**Author:** ![Battle\_Pope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Battle\_Pope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Battle_Pope)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/410 "2017-01-31T07:47:20Z")
Just showed up on [The Guardian timeline](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/jan/30/trump-travel-ban-executive-order-world-protests-live): > [@](#): > > [ul] > [li]Video footage has surfaced of Yates’s confirmation hearing in 2015 (as deputy attorney general) in which Sessions – who faces a hearing of his own this week – quizzed her on fidelity to the law v fidelity to the president:[/li][/ul] > \*\*Sessions: \*\*Do you think the attorney general has a responsibility to say no to the president if he asks for something that’s improper? … If the views the president wants to execute are unlawful, should the attorney general or the deputy attorney general say no? > **Yates:** Senator, I believe the attorney general or the deputy attorney general has an obligation to follow the law and the constitution, and to give their independent legal advice to the president. ---
**Author:** ![xenophon41](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xenophon41/32/253_2.png) [@xenophon41](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xenophon41)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/411 "2017-01-31T13:06:23Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > :dubious: Thanks for the intervention, but **Airman** doesn’t have to discuss this with me if he doesn’t want to. Up to him. I wouldn’t have put it the same way as **Banquet Bear** did (I’m absolutely sure the **Airman** can take care of himself), but I wonder about the vigorous pushback against ‘voter apathy’ as a contributor to Clinton’s loss. Isn’t it pretty clear that there was comparatively\* lower turnout from typically Democratic groups in the critical electoral swing states? Whether that was actually due to “apathy” -or complacency, or scandal fatigue or even voter suppression- is beside the point. The single most important thing the Democratic party needs to do going forward is to get Democratic voters into the voting booths. Sure, there are other critical things, but if enough eligible voters had cast ballots in November we wouldn’t have a President Donald J. Trump right now. The marginal error in most of the polling was due to the difficulty in predicting “likely” voters, not in gauging the preference of “eligible” voters. \*“Comparatively” as compared to 2008 and 2012, as a percentage and not absolute numbers ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/412 "2017-01-31T15:03:28Z")
> [@arfurvirus](#): > > Here let me help you. Nope. The person you need to help is yourself, until you get a clue about the difference between reality and fantasy. (Hint: If Trump or one of his minions says it, it should be presumed by default to be an alternative fact.) ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/413 "2017-01-31T15:16:52Z")
As a general rule, administration statements should never be cited as evidence of anything, and that was true before Trump. White HOuse spokesman spin, they don’t tell the truth. Their statements were never up to the standards of this board and should never be cited except to prove that they said what they said. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/414 "2017-01-31T15:18:11Z")
> [@arfurvirus](#): > > No, I’m saying Trump did it brilliantly. They took a look at 325,000 people, **detained 109** , yes all of the screeching and tears for 109 people who were inconvenienced. Great Job Radicals and dinosaur media. > > He’s slowing down the flood that Obama opened up, and properly vetting people. > > \*\*Yes, people from known terrorist supporting/breeding places will have to wait 90 days to get their free socialist healthcare and visas stamped. \*\*I know it makes him “literally” Hitler. > Get over it. > 8 years I’m going to have to listen to David Brocks and Soros’ paid shills around here… > Meanwhile in the real world Soro’ NGO’s are attempting to overthrow Hungry, > > I hope Sessions brings he and his son’s up on sedition charges. 🙂 I’ve lived here over 40 years and i still don’t have my free socialist healthcare. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/415 "2017-01-31T15:18:53Z")
I am not a huge fan of Sally Yates, but kudos to her for standing up to Trump on the “immigration” ban. And, once again, Trump shows his thin skinned, 2 year mental state by whining that she somehow “betrayed” him for standing up for the Constitution. One less grownup with a spine for Trump to deal with. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/416 "2017-01-31T15:19:44Z")
As noted by \*\*marshmallow \*\*in post #406 [QUOTE=Cheeto in Chief, Champion of ignorance] My IQ is one of the highest — and you all know it! Please don’t feel so stupid or insecure; it’s not your fault. [/QUOTE] “I have no idea [of my IQ score]. People who boast about their IQ are losers.” - [Stephen Hawking](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Hawking) (In 2004) ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/417 "2017-01-31T15:27:09Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I am not a huge fan of Sally Yates, but kudos to her for standing up to Trump on the “immigration” ban. And, once again, Trump shows his thin skinned, 2 year mental state by whining that she somehow “betrayed” him for standing up for the Constitution. One less grownup with a spine for Trump to deal with. Kudos for disobeying your President? And most legal experts agree that the President is acting quite legally and that the stay order by the federal judge won’t stand up to scrutiny. As for all the executive orders it’s reminiscent of a [recent incumbent.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/31/trump-is-making-full-use-of-obamas-pen-and-a-phone-precedent-how-far-will-he-take-it/) > [@](#): > > “I’ve got a pen and I’ve got a phone” > > The quote tweeted by Rep. Lee Zeldin (R-N.Y.) late Saturday night is from Barack Obama, way back when he was president. In January 2014, the president was frustrated by the pace of legislating in Washington and what he viewed as politically motivated obstructionism. So he indicated he would start testing the limits of his authority and signing more far-reaching executive orders. You live by the sword, you die by the sword. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/418 "2017-01-31T15:31:43Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Kudos for disobeying your President? And most legal experts agree that the President is acting quite legally and that the stay order by the federal judge won’t stand up to scrutiny. > > As for all the executive orders it’s reminiscent of a [recent incumbent.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/31/trump-is-making-full-use-of-obamas-pen-and-a-phone-precedent-how-far-will-he-take-it/) > > You live by the sword, you die by the sword. If you’re the AG, you don’t listen to “most legal experts”, you do what you think is legal and she was not sure the order was legal and wouldn’t defend it. It’s time you worshippers of the orange dick stopped trying to defend everything your Fuhrer does by stretching similarities to Obama’s actions beyond all recognition. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/419 "2017-01-31T15:34:58Z")
> [@Battle\_Pope](#): > > Just showed up on [The Guardian timeline](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/jan/30/trump-travel-ban-executive-order-world-protests-live): I was just listening to that clip, and I’ve got a slightly more complete transcription (video [here](http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow/watch/yates-in-2015-on-saying-no-an-unlawful-order-from-the-president-866420803503)): > [@](#): > > Sessions: “You think the Attorney General has a responsibility to say ‘no’ to the President, if he asks for something that’s improper? A lot of people have defended the Lynch nomination, for example, by saying, ‘well, he appoints somebody who’s going to execute his views, what’s wrong with that?’ But if the views the President wants to execute are unlawful, should the Attorney General or the Deputy Attorney General say ‘no’?” > > Yates: “Senator, I believe the Attorney General or the Deputy Attorney General has an obligation to follow the law and the Constitution, and to give their independent legal advice to the President.” Oh, the irony! Of course, I’m sure that in Sessions’ mind, that standard should apply only to people serving in Democratic Administrations, but that when a Republican is President, subordinates should damn well fall in line like they’re supposed to. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2017, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/420 "2017-01-31T15:40:31Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Kudos for disobeying your President? Why, do you have a problem with what Sessions said? 😛 > [@](#): > > As for all the executive orders it’s reminiscent of a [recent incumbent.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/31/trump-is-making-full-use-of-obamas-pen-and-a-phone-precedent-how-far-will-he-take-it/) > You live by the sword, you die by the sword. That’s silly. Every President issues Executive orders, just like every Congress passes laws. You might as well say that because I wear clothes, I shouldn’t have anything critical to say about the clothes anyone else wears. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468.md?page=22)