# Trump's Executive Order on Immigration - Let it Rip Dopers **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 29, 2017, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468 "2017-01-29T01:44:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/121 "2017-01-29T13:05:33Z")
Heil Chester! 😉 ETA: asahi, thanks. That helps me. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/122 "2017-01-29T13:07:11Z")
Some commentators have compared him to Andrew Jackson, actually. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/123 "2017-01-29T13:08:31Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > He lost by three million votes. He doesn’t have a mandate to do _anything_. There’s no such thing as the popular vote within presidential elections. It doesn’t count for anything, and winning it doesn’t get you anything. Don’t be a sore loser. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/124 "2017-01-29T13:08:51Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And please, let’s not compare Trump to Hitler. We should compare him to Chester Arthur, who signed the Chinese Exclusion Act. While it’s fine to attack Trump’s decision, and this is not who we are NOW, it’s not fascist either. It’s very much in the American tradition to exclude whole classes of immigrants. Chester Arthur didn’t wage a 15-month campaign to win an election based on these policies, though. And whether or not it meets the technical definition of fascism is beside the point and unimportant to establish. This, like the Mexican wall, is completely and utterly unnecessary. Obama has quietly implemented a very effective immigration control system. No, it’s not perfect. Yes, there will be the occasional bad guy that beats it, but that’s much, much less likely than it was on September 11th, 2001 or even Christmas of 2009 when the underwear bomber tried to bring down a Delta airliner. And sorry Adaher, but “tradition” is a terrible choice of words. It’s certainly not a tradition that anyone here should celebrate. Is Jim Crow a tradition, or **should it remain a dark chapter in the past**? I think that’s what this discussion’s about. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/125 "2017-01-29T13:11:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Some commentators have compared him to Andrew Jackson, actually. And Andrew Jackson is probably rolling around in his grave at the comparison. Jackson, unlike Trump, was actually pretty competent at administration and leadership of organizations. He did lead a military after all. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/126 "2017-01-29T13:14:31Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > And please, let’s not compare Trump to Hitler. . No Berloscuni. > [@adaher](#): > > True, but we also live in a democracy, or republic if you will, and keeping campaign promises to the letter SHOULD be normal. . Eh, how is this logical? In a democratic republic, the politics must be compromises, so “keeping campaign promises to the letter” will nearly always be an impossibility. It is in the dicatorships that keeping promises to the letter is ‘normal’ as all compromise and engagment with the opposition can be overridden. You want then to have the Authoritarian presidency instead of the democratic republic presidency if you desire this to be ‘normal.’ ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/127 "2017-01-29T13:16:44Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > I wonder if there are Muslims arguing on a Arabic language SDMB? Some poor slob trying to argue for some peaceful resolutions, some way to not get folks killed. And his main antagonist just goes on and on about how America hates Islam, how they hate Muslilms, how only war on Americans and Westerners in general will stop them from killing every Muslim. > > “You don’t think they all want us dead? Look who they elected! Look what he’s doing!” > > And every few days, or hours, he’s the guy who gets to gloat about how, every day and every hour, America is eager to prove him right. > > “Blessed are the peace-makers”? “Outnumbered” are the peace-makers. > > Bet right now, this minute, tonight, Joe Jihad is pointing out that America will help the Christian refugees, and just leave the Muslims to die. And poor ol’ Achmed al-lucidator is trying to think of something to say. And just can’t. Shows you that the two sides aren’t conservative and liberal, or terrorists and Americans / the West, but rather the pro religious world war faction, represented by ISIS, al qaeda, Frank Gaffney, Steve Bannon, Pamela Gellar, and John Bolton, and the anti religious world war reaction, represented by Americans and Muslims and others around the world who don’t want war. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/128 "2017-01-29T13:16:48Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > And sorry Adaher, but “tradition” is a terrible choice of words. It’s certainly not a tradition that anyone here should celebrate. Is Jim Crow a tradition, or **should it remain a dark chapter in the past**? I think that’s what this discussion’s about. That’s exactly right, but it should still be pointed out that this is very American. From what I understand, Hitler wasn’t even that interested in immigration. It’s not like people were clamoring to come to Nazi germany. Under Trump, I bet demand for immigration doesn’t decline a bit. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/129 "2017-01-29T13:17:40Z")
But for the opposition to Trump, you should be delighted. It is clear in this first week that he will remain a person without very much self-control, without any patience to well prepare his actions and will take impulsive reactive action on provocation. For a political opposition, if it is not too incompetent (it is a question of course, since you managed to lose to hiim, but this was the stupidity I think of the nominating of the uncharismatic functionary personality), it is a gift. Of course it is also the gift to the international opponents of the USA, as it will become very clear how easy it is to manipulate this Trump into lashing out and convertinng the USA political position from being positively viewed to negatively. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/130 "2017-01-29T13:19:23Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > And Andrew Jackson is probably rolling around in his grave at the comparison. Jackson, unlike Trump, was actually pretty competent at administration and leadership of organizations. He did lead a military after all. But he was also virulently racist, even by the standards of his time, and had no respect for rule of law or the Constitution. So when I compare Trump to Jackson, I’m not complimenting him. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/131 "2017-01-29T13:21:14Z")
> [@Ramira](#): > > No Berloscuni. > > Eh, how is this logical? > In a democratic republic, the politics must be compromises, so “keeping campaign promises to the letter” will nearly always be an impossibility. > > It is in the dicatorships that keeping promises to the letter is ‘normal’ as all compromise and engagment with the opposition can be overridden. > > You want then to have the Authoritarian presidency instead of the democratic republic presidency if you desire this to be ‘normal.’ There are some things a President can do under the law, all by himself, and those are the only things he’s done. It’s understood that other things require consent of Congress, and that’s where compromise will be necessary. If he wants the wall built, he needs money. If he wants ACA repealed and replaced, Congress has to do it. But he can temporarily suspend immigration and travel visas on his own. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/132 "2017-01-29T13:21:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Under Trump, I bet demand for immigration doesn’t decline a bit. I think you are wrong, it will be somewhat impacted. I know of even European persons cancelling their plans for the transfer for the USA out of the concerns around this Trump and facing the potential terrible disruption of the family. Better to delay. The unthinking lashing out of Trump, who can say that one day he does not issue such an order to block even a Western nationality because he has become angry - undone maybe quickly but introducing doubt. The potential of the disruptoin, the clear incompetence of the way this order was rushed out without any clear thinking or a program to build a political support… Of course it seems the vocal supporters of Trump are not intelligent enough to understand that his method of executing this, although it appeals to the drunk loud mouth at the bar mentality, will actually be very damaging to the agenda because of its incompetence. the american conservative right may pay more for this than for the Bush fils. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/133 "2017-01-29T13:22:10Z")
Isn’t it almost that time in the day when the President of the United States takes to Twitter to share with us his innermost thoughts and new policy initiatives … ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/134 "2017-01-29T13:28:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There are some things a President can do under the law, all by himself, and those are the only things he’s done. It’s understood that other things require consent of Congress, and that’s where compromise will be necessary. If he wants the wall built, he needs money. If he wants ACA repealed and replaced, Congress has to do it. But he can temporarily suspend immigration and travel visas on his own. And you think it should be normal in the Democratic Republic that ‘promises’ are issues as decrees, rather than being developed through the parliamentary process? That does not change my observation, what you said should be normal is the habit of the Authoritarian presidencies. Not the democratic republican ones. There is a degradation in your political culture that there is not promotion of the idea of the given and the take. The Winner take All attitudes, these are the flaws of the new or the declining democracies. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/135 "2017-01-29T13:32:49Z")
“Elections have consequences.” ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/136 "2017-01-29T13:34:25Z")
Yup, they do. Remember that in 2018. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/137 "2017-01-29T13:40:10Z")
2018 isn’t a Democrat-friendly year. I wouldn’t get your hopes up until 2020, at the earliest. ---
**Author:** ![MentalGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/439d5e/32.png) [@MentalGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MentalGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/138 "2017-01-29T13:56:45Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I just went to the front page of CNN and it said DHS is complying with the judge’s decision. > > [http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/ny-immigration-order-stay/index.html](http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/29/politics/ny-immigration-order-stay/index.html) From what I have read, part of the judge’s decision was to allow people being detained to have access to lawyers. Customs and Border Patrol does not seem to be following this order. Admittedly, I do not have a news story to cite on this, but[this links to tweets](https://twitter.com/woodruffbets) by Betsy Woodruff who is at Dulles and in contact with Cory Booker who is there says this seems to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/139 "2017-01-29T14:24:24Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Is the President doing anything he wasn’t mandated to do? Just so you know, the 2016 election only ranked [46th out of 58](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_Electoral_College_margin) in Electoral College margin. NOT a “landslide”. Another alternative fact from Team Cheeto. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2017, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468/140 "2017-01-29T14:57:54Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > There’s no such thing as the popular vote within presidential elections. It doesn’t count for anything, and winning it doesn’t get you anything. Only a deranged moron would obsess over this meaningless thing that doesn’t exist, eh Obie? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-executive-order-on-immigration-let-it-rip-dopers/778468.md?page=8)