# Trump's Immigration Proposal **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 17, 2015, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082 "2015-08-17T16:07:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/81 "2015-08-18T02:26:48Z")
I think that is not holding. > **[Immigration\_MythsFacts.pdf](https://www.uschamber.com/assets/archived/images/legacy/reports/Immigration_MythsFacts.pdf)** > > 598.22 KB > [@](#): > > A 2012 analysis of census data > by Saint Louis University economist Jack Strauss > found that cities with greater immigration from > Latin America experience lower unemployment > rates, lower poverty rates, and higher wages among > African Americans. Latino immigrants and African > Americans fill complementary roles in the labor > market—they are not simply substitutes for one > another. In addition, cities that have suffered the > effects of declining population are rejuvenated by > an inflow of Latino immigrants. > 15 > Immigrants do not “steal” jobs from American > workers. Immigrants come to the United States > to fill jobs that are available, or to establish their > own businesses. Research has found that there > is no correlation between immigration and high > unemployment at the regional, state, or county > level. > 16 > [@](#): > > The economic and social integration of > immigrants is an ongoing process that will > continue over the decades to come. In a 2011 > report, Myers concludes that the share of > immigrants who own homes is projected to > increase from 25.5 percent in 2000 to 72 percent > in 2030. The share that speak English “well” or > “very well” is projected to grow from 57.5 percent > to 70.3 percent over the same period. And the > share living in poverty is projected to decrease from > 22.8 percent to 13.4 percent. > 83 > In other words, immigrants are not settling into “ethnic enclaves” > that exist apart from mainstream America. Rather, > they are becoming progressively more “American” > in every sense of the word. > > Integration and upward mobility are most > apparent among the children of immigrants. > For instance, according to surveys by the [Pew > Research Center, “adults in the second generation > are doing better than those in the first generation > in median household income](http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2013/02/07/second-generation-americans/)($58,000 versus > $46,000); college degrees (36 percent versus 29 > percent); and homeownership (64 percent versus > 51 percent). They are less likely to be in poverty > (11 percent versus 18 percent) and less likely to > have not finished high school (10 percent versus 28 > percent).” > 84 > [A study by economist James P. Smith > found that the wages and educational attainment of > Latino men increase significantly from generation > to generation](http://immigrationimpact.com/2009/12/07/studies-show-latinos-climb-socio-economic-ladder-of-success/), with wages increasing 15 percent > from the first generation and in between the second > and third generations, an additional 5.6 percent. > 85 ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/82 "2015-08-18T04:38:47Z")
The second generation improves, but the end result is that the US is going to have a less skilled workforce though as even after [four generations the academic achievement levels of Mexican-Americans is below the national average.](http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-study-of-four-generations-46372) > [@](#): > > •The educational levels of second-generation Mexican Americans improved dramatically. But the third and fourth generations failed to surpass, and to some extent fell behind, the educational level of the second generation. Moreover, the educational levels of all Mexican Americans still lag behind the national average. > > •Mexican Americans attained higher levels of education when they knew professionals as children, when their parents were more educated and when their parents were more involved in school and church activities. Those who attended Catholic schools were much better educated than those who attended public schools. > > •Economic status improved from the first to second generation but stalled in the third and fourth generation. Earnings, occupational status and homeownership were still alarmingly low for later generations. Low levels of schooling among Mexican Americans were the main reason for lower income, occupational status and other indicators of socioeconomic status. This is part of the massive cost of the achievement gap which is the equivalent to a permanent national recession according to [McKinsey.](http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-study-of-four-generations-46372) ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/83 "2015-08-18T04:54:37Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > This is part of the massive cost of the achievement gap which is the equivalent to a permanent national recession according to [McKinsey.](http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-study-of-four-generations-46372) Repeating that does not change the fact that McKinsey had to tell us “If these results continue to hold” The latest studies reported that it does not. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/84 "2015-08-18T05:01:51Z")
[FOX contributor wants undocumented persons to perform slave labor.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fox-guest-host-immigrants-build-mexico-wall_55d2570fe4b0ab468d9e2155) ---
**Author:** ![Chen019](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f19dbf/32.png) [@Chen019](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chen019)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/85 "2015-08-18T05:40:01Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > [FOX contributor wants undocumented persons to perform slave labor.](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fox-guest-host-immigrants-build-mexico-wall_55d2570fe4b0ab468d9e2155) This is what Israel does - it hired asylum seekers to help build a fence with Egypt to keep out further migrants. > [@](#): > > he government is employing Eritrean asylum seekers to help build a border fence designed to keep out other migrants seeking to enter the country from Africa via the Sinai Peninsula. > > A man who gave his name as August […] had arrived in Israel five months ago. According to August, the hardest part of the journey was trekking through the African desert. Now, once the border fence along the Egyptian frontier is completed, migrants will find it even more difficult to enter the country. > > August laughed when asked if he felt guilty that he was helping put up a structure designed to keep fellow Eritreans out of the country. “I have a family that remained in Eritrea,” he said. “While they would love to come here, they know the journey isn’t easy.” As August tells it, he simply has no choice but to earn a living any way he can. > > While the state has legally barred its citizens from employing asylum seekers from Africa, it doesn’t enforce the ban. Months ago, the Interior Ministry’s Population Registry inserted a clause in the temporary-status visas given to asylum seekers stating that under no circumstances could they be hired. > > But it is in the state’s interests for asylum seekers to support themselves financially, so it has turned a blind eye to asylum seekers who break the law – until it can finish building a large holding facility that will provide the migrants with their basic needs. Only then will the state start enforcing the no-hiring law. ---
**Author:** ![Ramira](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ramira/32/344_2.png) [@Ramira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ramira)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/86 "2015-08-18T08:38:29Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Do you have any examples of this? (regarding the supposed emitting countries refusing to accept back migrants supposed to be from their country) it happens all the time for the countries like the France which has this deportation policy. It is not exceptional, it is ordinary and must be expected. > [@](#): > > What do you suggest we do in this situation? Why not take the whole lesson of the roots of these policies and build camps, in new lands. You can even rebrand them with the american marketing as the original names are not very acceptable in the present world. > [@](#): > > Become the one country on the planet willing to accept with open arms everyone else’s criminals? I have always loved how self centered and yet poorly informed about how other countries work in any given area that a certain class of americans are. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/87 "2015-08-18T09:46:03Z")
> [@ssgenius](#): > > As mentioned before, the Berlin Wall is the historic example of a wall and it only caused problems before it ended up being taken down Well remember with the Berlin wall you had a wall that that was only a few feet to cross in some areas. Plus you had a west German government who welcomed East Germans with open arms. The only place close to that situation would be in San Diego and I guess many long tunnels have been found there. Plus the Berlin wall was an artificial wall set up by a foreign government to split up a nation. I dont think the 2 are the same. ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/88 "2015-08-18T14:01:02Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > McKinsey study: Um, I think you have made a mistake in operating your quotation machine. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/89 "2015-08-18T14:39:41Z")
> [@Chen019](#): > > This is what Israel does - it hired asylum seekers to help build a fence with Egypt to keep out further migrants. It what way is voluntary and paid labor the same as slave labor? ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/90 "2015-08-18T16:53:28Z")
As I have mentioned before, I’m very supportive of _jus soli_ in the US; I will not begrudge anybody who wants to better the lives of their family by coming here. However, I’d be willing to repeal it as part of a compromise: 1. Make the border wide open; let people who want to try and find a job do so. 2. Increase penalties (or step up enforcement) for hiring illegal aliens (which, given #1, mostly means paying under the table). 3. Repeal _jus soli_. 4. Remove quotas on citizenship; if they’be been here X years with a job and no arrests then they qualify. The hard part is figuring out what benefits to give to immigrants who have a job but are not yet citizens. I’d be concerned about the practical problem of attracting more immigrants than available jobs. I don’t know if that is solvable to the satisfaction of a majority. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2015, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/91 "2015-08-18T22:50:04Z")
It’s kinda pathetic how CNN tries to [nitpick at Trump](Donald Trump undermines his own immigration policy): So Trump basically says that those foreigners who graduate from US colleges should have an easy path to stay in the country. And CNN tries to frame it as if he’s contradicting his statement about “the influx of foreign workers” keeping salaries from growing, keeping unemployment high and making it difficult for “poor and working class Americans … to earn a middle class wage.” That’s really grasping at straws trying to fault Trump for something. The two statements are not contradictory. A foreigner who comes to the US and, especially in STEM fields, earns a degree, especially a graduate degree, is a great asset, and keeping him in the US is an obvious benefit. That has nothing to do with the other statements by Trump, as much as you may object to them. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/92 "2015-08-19T06:18:59Z")
[http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d103:S1351:](http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d103:S1351:) S.1351 Latest Title: Immigration Stabilization Act of 1993 Sponsor: **Sen Reid, Harry** (introduced 8/4/1993) Go to the text of the legislation. At the end: SEC. 1001. BASIS OF CITIZENSHIP CLARIFIED. In the exercise of its powers under section 5 of the Fourteenth Article of Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the Congress has determined and hereby declares that any person born after the date of enactment of this title to a mother who is neither a citizen of the United States nor admitted to the United States as a lawful permanent resident, and which person is a national or citizen of another country of which either of his or her natural parents is a national or citizen, or is entitled upon application to become a national or citizen of such country, shall be considered as born subject to the jurisdiction of that foreign country and not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States within the meaning of section 1 of such Article and shall therefore not be a citizen of the United States or of any State solely by reason of physical presence within the United States at the moment of birth. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/93 "2015-08-19T07:29:36Z")
This is not the first time I’ve heard “subject to the juirisdiction thereof” clause used as an excuse to deny citizenship to people born in the U.S. I don’t believe it can possibly withstand constitutional scrutiny, although, of course, it only takes five Supreme Court Justices to tell us what the authors of the14th Amendment “really meant” or what the text of the amendment “really means.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/94 "2015-08-19T07:47:24Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This is not the first time I’ve heard “subject to the juirisdiction thereof” clause used as an excuse to deny citizenship to people born in the U.S. > > I don’t believe it can possibly withstand constitutional scrutiny, although, of course, it only takes five Supreme Court Justices to tell us what the authors of the14th Amendment “really meant” or what the text of the amendment “really means.” Here is a good discussion of it: [https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=463532](https://www.hsdl.org/?view&did=463532) The law is not as settled as you’d think. None of the relevant SC cases decided whether children born to illegal aliens fall under the Fourteenth. ---
**Author:** ![Hiker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3be4f8/32.png) [@Hiker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hiker)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/95 "2015-08-19T08:11:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > (…) his statement about “the influx of foreign workers” keeping salaries from growing, keeping unemployment high and making it difficult for “poor and working class Americans … to earn a middle class wage.” How exactly does that work according to Trump? Do the foreign workers keep unemployment high because they are cheaper to hire than Americans are? Well - let’s assume that were true. What would Trump’s “medicine” of keeping the foreign workers away really achieve? I suppose his line of reasoning is that companies would now have to resort to hiring Americans and paying them a “middle class wage”. But of course that money has to come from somewhere. Few companies have deep enough coffers so that they could afford to ignore that kind of a cost hike. The vast majority would either have to cut cost elsewhere (an option rarely available) or to increase income. Increasing income means, selling your product at higher prices. If you cannot do that, because the market won’t buy at higher prices, your company goes bust. (Not the best way to create jobs.) If you can, good for your company and If that company is mainly selling on international markets, even good for America. If the company is selling on domestic markets - and most are - someone of course has to pay the higher prices. At the end of the day that is you, the consumer. So when Trump suggests to help the “poor and working class Americans”, who are so close to his heart, he wants all of you to pay for that. He just somehow fails to mention it. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/96 "2015-08-19T14:20:00Z")
Are we being asked to follow the 3 absolutely meaningless statements in the OP as if they were actual policy positions? At best you might consider the 3 statements together as some kind of guiding philosophy. As policy, they are empty sets. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/97 "2015-08-19T14:21:53Z")
It should be noted that Bernie Sanders and Donald Trump are in agreement on foreign workers. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/98 "2015-08-19T14:23:50Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > This is not the first time I’ve heard “subject to the juirisdiction thereof” clause used as an excuse to deny citizenship to people born in the U.S. > > I don’t believe it can possibly withstand constitutional scrutiny, although, of course, it only takes five Supreme Court Justices to tell us what the authors of the14th Amendment “really meant” or what the text of the amendment “really means.” Then that would mean that foreign embassy staff that have babies here are giving birth to American citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/99 "2015-08-19T14:34:31Z")
> **[Voters Want to Build A Wall, Deport Felon Illegal Immigrants](https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/immigration/august_2015/voters_want_to_build_a_wall_deport_felon_illegal_immigrants)** > > As far as voters are concerned – and not just Republicans -  Donald Trump has a winning formula for fighting illegal immigration. Among all likely voters, 51% favor building a wall on the border; 37% disagree, and 12% are not sure. … Fifty-four percent (54%) of voters disagree with the current federal policy that says a child born to an illegal immigrant here is automatically a U.S. citizen. Seems like Trump has significant support of the voters for his immigration policies. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082/100 "2015-08-19T14:36:37Z")
The voters support enforcing the law. The voters support less immigration, not more. The only thing voters agree with liberals on is an earned amnesty, and even there liberals are trying to do a bait and switch. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-immigration-proposal/728082.md?page=6)