# Trump's indictment--does it matter? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Tags:** trump\ **Created:** [June 9, 2023, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251 "2023-06-09T16:21:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 18
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/341 "2023-06-15T19:56:19Z")
And even if they could, they’ve all turned down Trump. ---
**Author:** ![Pazu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pazu/32/15522_2.png) [@Pazu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pazu)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/342 "2023-06-15T19:56:35Z")
> [@Masterkiller](#): > > This will have no impact on Trump and he will not be sent to prision. End of story and no further debate needed. He will never go to prison! Well, I don’t know about anyone else, but I’m convinced. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/343 "2023-06-15T19:57:24Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > On a scale of one to Ned Flanders, how naïve is this opinion article? I’d say it is at the 1 on the naivete scale. The authors aren’t naive at all, they know what they’re saying. Of course, they are associated with a [right wing think tank](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Enterprise_Institute). So, yes, pardoning Trump doesn’t seem like a far-fetched suggestion from such an organization. Dick Cheney and Harlan Crow are on their board of trustees. And the main author of that piece used to be a speechwriter for George W. Bush. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/344 "2023-06-15T20:01:24Z")
> [@Masterkiller](#): > > No - he has an expert legal team Experts, you say? Top. Men. Just two days ago: > **[Trump Basically One Day Away From Hiring a Lawyer Who Advertises on the Side...](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/06/donald-trump-lawyer-search)** > > The indicted ex-president is struggling to find attorneys willing to be associated with him. Yesterday: " Following arraignment, Trump narrowing list of potential attorneys to join his legal team" > **[Following arraignment, Trump narrowing list of potential attorneys to join...](https://abcnews.go.com/US/arraignment-trump-narrowing-list-potential-attorneys-join-legal/story?id=100081381)** > > Former President Trump is narrowing down his list of potential attorneys as he and his team work to expand his legal team following his arraignment Tuesday, sources say. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/345 "2023-06-15T20:01:32Z")
It’s good to know there is some action Biden might take that would make him a Master Statesman in the eyes of such distinguished _rapporteurs_. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/346 "2023-06-15T20:08:53Z")
Here’s an interesting article from the Washington Post - gift link… > **[Trump rejected lawyers’ efforts to avoid classified documents indictment](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/06/14/trump-indictment-classified-documents-settlement/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWJpZCI6IjQ1Njg4NzciLCJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNjg2ODAxNjAwLCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNjg4MDk3NTk5LCJpYXQiOjE2ODY4MDE2MDAsImp0aSI6IjNiOGI5ZjlmLWIzNTEtNGRkNi1iYWFmLTg0MWE2YjEzZWE3NSIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS9uYXRpb25hbC1zZWN1cml0eS8yMDIzLzA2LzE0L3RydW1wLWluZGljdG1lbnQtY2xhc3NpZmllZC1kb2N1bWVudHMtc2V0dGxlbWVudC8ifQ.UIAFwibBe7EIHY74WD5__c8NDAv8KTog-2v-cDz3Rwk&itid=gfta)** > > The former president was not interested in attempting to negotiate a settlement in the classified documents investigation, three people briefed on the matter said. It’s difficult to compare Trump to other politicians that committed crimes, like Nixon and Agnew. Because, when push came to shove, Nixon and Agnew were willing to cut deals to stay out of prison, something Trump steadfastly refuses to do. Trump gets himself into trouble just so he can publicly avoid consequences, because this is what winning means to him. When he was impeached for the first time, one thing that always struck me was how easily Trump could have avoided the situation if he wanted to. After the funds were released to Ukraine, he could have made a speech that went something like this _I’m a businessman, not a professional politician. In business we play by different rules and sometimes my instincts take over. I have released the funds to Ukraine and I would like to offer my apologies to President Zelensky and Joe Biden._ Now, I know Trump would never do this, but any other politician, any other President, would’ve, whether they meant it or not. This is why Trump is twice impeached and twice indicted……not because everyone is out to get him, ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/347 "2023-06-15T20:29:14Z")
When I suggest naïvété I am not referring to the crafting of such a message, but to its likely effect. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/348 "2023-06-15T20:35:15Z")
I thought this was an interesting article. I didn’t know much about the co-accused. > **[Trump’s Bag Man](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2023/06/walt-nauta-donald-trump-bag-man/674407/)** > > Walt Nauta went to work for Trump as a valet, and ended up his co-defendant. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/349 "2023-06-15T20:50:27Z")
Sadly paywalled. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/350 "2023-06-15T20:52:37Z")
The naive might be swayed by it, and that is who it is targeted to, yes. If that is what you are asking. I’ll note that the think tank is not far right, I don’t see MAGA folks. There are a lot of people from Bush the Younger’s administration involved in it, both today and in the past. But it’s clearly a plea for appeasement, and it’s a cop out. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/351 "2023-06-15T21:18:11Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Just two days ago: Well, did he hire the bus lawyer, or could (gasp!) _The Guardian_ be wrong and _Vanity Fair_ be guilty of writing a satirical headline? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/352 "2023-06-15T21:23:59Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > Well, did he hire the bus lawyer, or could (gasp!) _The Guardian_ be wrong and _Vanity Fair_ be guilty of writing a satirical headline? By all accounts, Christopher Kise is a pretty good lawyer, but (see WaPo article above), when your client does not follow your best advice, it does not really matter how good a lawyer you are… ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/353 "2023-06-15T21:28:19Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > On a scale of one to Ned Flanders, how naïve is this opinion article? Fair enough. The Washington Post has a lot of columnists, and one or two are Trump supporters. While over a dozen are Trump-critical. And if you look at the use of the word baseless in the hard news pages, maybe you can find a rare instance where it’s tied to something Biden said. But I subscribe to the Post (and New York Times) and don’t ever remember seeing it. Because it is rare. The great majority of the stories about lies, that use such labeling, are about Republican lies. Of course, the reason is that the Republicans make a whole lot more baseless statement. But there seems an impression by some in his thread that mainstream media engineer the news so the number of Democrats-positive and Republicans-positive stories is equal. And that’s not what I see. The coverage of the indictments is not evenhanded in terms of giving both sides the same credence. Now, I don’t watch TV. Do ABC, NBC and CBS not use the word baseless the same way? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/354 "2023-06-15T22:02:18Z")
I got as far down as seeing that the author was Marc A. Thiessen and stopped. He’s a rabid right-winger, probably the farthest right person that gets published as the “opposition” in major newspapers. Get used to a barrage of this garbage disguised as “thoughtful” commentary. ---
**Author:** ![Dr\_Paprika](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr_paprika/32/3042_2.png) [@Dr\_Paprika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr_Paprika)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/355 "2023-06-15T22:10:58Z")
**A short excerpt from the Atlantic article.** _Nauta fascinates because he is such a cipher—neither a political true believer like some of Trump’s confidants nor an obvious opportunistic grifter like most of the rest—and because of the impossible dilemma he faces. Like so many other Trump aides and advisers, as well as the Republican Party and the nation as a whole, he finds himself caught in a bind by Trump’s behavior._ _Nauta seems screwed no matter what he does. If he sticks with Trump, he faces the prospect of years in jail on felony charges for a scheme in which he had no real stake and little to gain. Federal prosecutors apparently tried to squeeze him into flipping on Trump but were unsuccessful, and no wonder: His attorney is being paid by Trump’s political-action committee. If he cooperates against Trump, he might avoid prison, but he stands to lose his legal representation, his livelihood, and his chance at a pardon if Trump is reelected._ _[Yesterday’s arraignment] put the absurdity of Nauta’s situation on full display. He is both a co-defendant with and servant to the former president. He went along to a federal courthouse in Miami with his boss. Although Trump had to scramble to find lawyers to represent him in the brief hearing, he did manage to do so, and he pleaded not guilty. Nauta, however, had his arraignment postponed without a plea because he had no local attorney, as the court’s rules require. Trump’s PAC may be paying for Nauta’s representation, but that doesn’t mean he’s getting the best help._ _From the courthouse, Trump traveled to Versailles, a landmark Cuban restaurant in Miami’s Little Havana. Here, the former president was in his element—prayed over by a priest and a rabbi, adored by fans, soaking in the attention. Those looking closely could spot Nauta too: He hovered as unobtrusively as possible in the background, helping direct traffic, keeping Trump’s clothes neat, managing the situation. In court, both men had stood equal as citizens and defendants in a criminal scheme. At the restaurant, the huge gap between their statuses snapped back into view._ ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/356 "2023-06-15T22:25:51Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > They just have to get the truth out there. The problem is, it takes mere moments to spew a falsehood and a great deal of effort to refute it. See: Gish Gallop as one example. Indeed, one characteristic of most conservatives is a complete lack of interest in trying to understand complex problems. They want a bite-sized, low-brow, low-effort soundbite that tells them the problem, any problem, is due to the libs. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/357 "2023-06-15T22:50:49Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > **A short excerpt from the Atlantic article.** > > \*Federal prosecutors apparently tried to squeeze him [Waltine Nauta] into flipping on Trump . . . If so, that was, in my I’m sure unpopular view, morally wrong of them. What about the Secret Service? If they were actively protecting Trump while they could see him committing a felony, isn’t that act of protection, at a minimum, [Misprision of Felony](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/4)? Yes, I know, they [already flipped.](https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-secret-service-agents-testify-against-him-1792195) ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/358 "2023-06-15T23:22:52Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > > [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > > > **A short excerpt from the Atlantic article.** > > > > \*Federal prosecutors apparently tried to squeeze him [Waltine Nauta] into flipping on Trump . . . > > If so, that was, in my I’m sure unpopular view, morally wrong of them. In my view it really defends on what is meant by “squeeze him.” If they simply offered him a deal in exchange for coopration, that’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/359 "2023-06-15T23:27:52Z")
> [@Dr\_Paprika](#): > > Nauta, however, had his arraignment postponed without a plea because he had no local attorney, as the court’s rules require. Trump’s PAC may be paying for Nauta’s representation, but that doesn’t mean he’s getting the best help. I was wondering about this. Sounds like Nauta is already being screwed over by Trump. Trump seemed to manage to get his attorneys recognized by the court. But for the little guy? To hell with him, I guess. Nauta will be looking forward to being the fall guy, I am assuming. It was all his fault. He did it all. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2023, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251/360 "2023-06-15T23:47:28Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > If they simply offered him a deal in exchange for coopration, that’s fine. On the other hand, maybe they sent Pearl in there to make him sweat. [https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BronzeIdealButterfly-size\_restricted.gif](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BronzeIdealButterfly-size_restricted.gif) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251.md?page=17) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-indictment-does-it-matter/985251.md?page=19)