# Trump's neurological health - a rational discussion please **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 2, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379 "2019-07-02T03:10:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/21 "2019-07-02T16:45:24Z")
Homelessness started two years ago, Sherman tanks are brand new, we’ll have a plan in four weeks… Is this type of thing evidence of time confusion brought on by dementia? Or is he just talking out his ass with no regard for the truth? ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 5:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/22 "2019-07-02T17:42:36Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I think the evidence presented here and elsewhere shows a definite deterioration in thought, speech and movement. I’ve been estranged from my father for years, but at the end of our relationship (when he was in his 60’s), I found it nearly impossible to communicate with him because of his self-centerdness. He seemed incapable of discussing anything other than himself, and he’d get distracted and lose focus if you were talking. Although he had spent many years as a successful businessman, I was struck by how ‘dumb’ he seemed, since his thoughts were so narrow. Trump is like that. He isn’t interested in knowing anything, so you can’t talk with him. When he speaks, it’s repetitive, because the only thoughts in his head are the ones he came up with, and he’s not that creative. His worldview is essentially ‘stuck’ in some place and time where he decided he was fully formed, and further growth, development, or knowledge is deemed useless. I just don’t think this is new. I mean, yes, in his 70s (and lacking a healthful diet or any sort of exercise), I believe Trump is slowing down. But he’s long been boring, bland, and lacking in substance. That is nothing new. What is new is simply the fact that legions of reporters (not merely gossip columnists in NYC) are now hanging on his every dumb word, and the areas he is asked to opine on focus on the biggest issues of the day. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/23 "2019-07-02T17:51:06Z")
> [@Moriarty](#): > > I’ve been estranged from my father for years, but at the end of our relationship (when he was in his 60’s), I found it nearly impossible to communicate with him because of his self-centerdness. He seemed incapable of discussing anything other than himself, and he’d get distracted and lose focus if you were talking. Although he had spent many years as a successful businessman, I was struck by how ‘dumb’ he seemed, since his thoughts were so narrow. > > Trump is like that. He isn’t interested in knowing anything, so you can’t talk with him. When he speaks, it’s repetitive, because the only thoughts in his head are the ones he came up with, and he’s not that creative. His worldview is essentially ‘stuck’ in some place and time where he decided he was fully formed, and further growth, development, or knowledge is deemed useless. > > I just don’t think this is new. I mean, yes, in his 70s (and lacking a healthful diet or any sort of exercise), I believe Trump is slowing down. But he’s long been boring, bland, and lacking in substance. That is nothing new. What is new is simply the fact that legions of reporters (not merely gossip columnists in NYC) are now hanging on his every dumb word, and the areas he is asked to opine on focus on the biggest issues of the day. You are focusing on Trump as he is today, while ignoring the examples given as to how he used to be. Can you not see a difference? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/24 "2019-07-02T18:14:38Z")
Yes, there is a difference between his acuity as demonstrated in interviews 20 years ago and now. Arguably he was elected in this state, and the only people empowered to do anything about it refuse to act. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/25 "2019-07-02T18:17:18Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Homelessness started two years ago, Sherman tanks are brand new, we’ll have a plan in four weeks… Is this type of thing evidence of time confusion brought on by dementia? Or is he just talking out his ass with no regard for the truth? I’m guessing the answers are “Yes” and “Yes”. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/26 "2019-07-02T18:30:47Z")
Huh? How can he blame homelessness on Obama if it started on his watch? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/27 "2019-07-02T18:57:33Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Huh? How can he blame homelessness on Obama if it started on his watch? Harry Frankfurt, _On Bullshit_ > [@](#): > > When an honest man speaks, he says > only what he believes to be true; and for the liar, it is > correspondingly indispensable that he considers his statements to > be false. For the bullshitter, however, all these bets are off: he is > neither on the side of the true nor on the side of the false. His eye > is not on the facts at all, as the eyes of the honest man and of the > liar are, except insofar as they may be pertinent to his interest in > getting away with what he says. He does not care whether the > things he says describe reality correctly. He just picks them out, > or makes them up, to suit his purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/28 "2019-07-02T20:50:16Z")
He may or may not be having dementia, but his confusion over busing, western liberalism, and Sherman tanks, is not evidence of it. Those are just garden variety ignorance. These are things that any person educated in history and political science should know, but the random person on the street would probably get wrong. Trump is basically what you get when you take a random loud mouth in a bar who has an opinion on everything, but very little actual knowledge and actually put him in charge. Trump only looks ignorant when compared with other policy makers, but he’s probably knows as much about anything as the average man on the street. This is why he is so appealing for his “straight talk”. Unlike the educated “elites” who usually get elevated to power, Trump talks and thinks just like they do. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/29 "2019-07-02T21:25:15Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > He may or may not be having dementia, but his confusion over busing, western liberalism, and Sherman tanks, is not evidence of it. Those are just garden variety ignorance. These are things that any person educated in history and political science should know, but the random person on the street would probably get wrong. Trump is basically what you get when you take a random loud mouth in a bar who has an opinion on everything, but very little actual knowledge and actually put him in charge. Trump only looks ignorant when compared with other policy makers, but he’s probably knows as much about anything as the average man on the street. This is why he is so appealing for his “straight talk”. Unlike the educated “elites” who usually get elevated to power, Trump talks and thinks just like they do. I disagree totally. His inability to control his emotions, his constantly losing his train of thought, the videos of him getting lost and confused. This speaks to something deeper than just being a low information citizen (which I agree he is that too). Here are videos of Trump trying to walk out of a room before signing a bill that the event he was speaking at was devoted to. He would give a speech about a bill or executive order, then forget to sign it and try to walk out of the room. People have blips and memory lapses, but when you give a speech about signing a bill and then try to walk out because you forgot what you are doing is not normal. Here it Trump forgetting his own wife is standing next to him and him saying he wishes she could be there. People don't do that just because they don't follow politics. You don't forget your wife is standing next to you (likely after she traveled with you to a location) just because you don't follow politics. Here is the text to one of Donald Trump’s speeches. > **[FACT CHECK: Donald Trump's 'Nuclear' Speech](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-sentence/)** > > A rambling, jumbled portion of a July 2016 Donald Trump speech has amused and stunned social media users. > [@](#): > > “Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible.” He didn’t talk like that in the 80s and 90s. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/30 "2019-07-02T21:41:39Z")
GOP won’t dump him until he is 6 feet under or very,very close to that. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/31 "2019-07-02T21:55:57Z")
Sheesh. I thought it was the biggest tell in the beginning when he said he wouldn’t do press briefings. All of his gaffes he gave in the last two years would’ve been noticed at press briefings in January 2017. He knew we’d notice his decline. As far as '80s and '90s, he was just as demented then. Boasts about a book he wrote (he didn’t), gives stump funds to fund a casino and a tower, only to be planned bankruptcies. Yet, he’s surprised when no one-- NO ONE-- will loan him anymore money for real estate. Demented then, demented now. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/32 "2019-07-02T21:59:26Z")
Not to derail the thread, but this is another reason I don’t want the likes of Biden, Bernie, Warren, etc. as president either. We need to stop this trend of 70-80 year old presidents; it’s not ageist to point out what aging does to the brain. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/33 "2019-07-02T22:10:35Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I disagree totally. His inability to control his emotions, his constantly losing his train of thought, the videos of him getting lost and confused. This speaks to something deeper than just being a low information citizen (which I agree he is that too). > > Here are videos of Trump trying to walk out of a room before signing a bill that the event he was speaking at was devoted to. He would give a speech about a bill or executive order, then forget to sign it and try to walk out of the room. People have blips and memory lapses, but when you give a speech about signing a bill and then try to walk out because you forgot what you are doing is not normal. > > Here it Trump forgetting his own wife is standing next to him and him saying he wishes she could be there. > > People don't do that just because they don't follow politics. You don't forget your wife is standing next to you (likely after she traveled with you to a location) just because you don't follow politics. > > Here is the text to one of Donald Trump’s speeches. > > [Donald Trump's 'Nuclear' Speech | Snopes.com](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-sentence/) > > He didn’t talk like that in the 80s and 90s. His leaving without signing the bills is pretty telling. He seems confused especially in the second example. The one with Melania, I’m not sure. He could be saying, “Melania made the trip because this touched her heart and she really wanted to be here to show her support.” This could be another mangled sentence rather than an example of profound confusion. I could go either way on that one. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/34 "2019-07-02T22:11:22Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Not to derail the thread, but this is another reason I don’t want the likes of Biden, Bernie, Warren, etc. as president either. We need to stop this trend of 70-80 year old presidents; it’s not ageist to point out what aging does to the brain. While that is a valid concern, the rates of dementia don’t skyrocket until after age 80. At age 80 its about 10%, at age 95 its around 50%. So a president serving in their early 80s will hopefully be in the clear. [![](https://www.oatext.com/img/HPC-2-147-g003.gif) ](https://www.oatext.com/img/HPC-2-147-g003.gif) [![](https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0140673613615706-gr1.jpg) ](https://ars.els-cdn.com/content/image/1-s2.0-S0140673613615706-gr1.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2019, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/35 "2019-07-02T22:25:56Z")
A 10% chance of a person with dementia having their finger on the nuclear button and command of the armed forces is not reassuring. I think Biden and Bernie are too old at this point, and a 2nd Trump term is really pushing it. They may be OK now but I’m not confident they’ll still have all their faculties 6 years from now if they’re elected. And I’m not confident someone in their 80’s can handle the stress and sleep deprivation if there is a major crisis such as a nuclear war. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/36 "2019-07-03T01:34:27Z")
> [@Locrian](#): > > As far as '80s and '90s, he was just as demented then. This is clearly not the case if one compares recordings of him from 20-30 years ago with live presentations of him now. He was just as _ignorant_ back then, just as _narcissistic_, just as _obnoxious_, yes. What is different now is that his overall mental faculties are showing obvious signs of decay. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/37 "2019-07-03T02:56:26Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You are focusing on Trump as he is today, while ignoring the examples given as to how he used to be. Can you not see a difference? I thought that I acknowledged the difference. But I attributed it to: Being in his 70’s Poor diet No exercise More people listening to him on a regular basis A greater scope of things to talk about In other words, I agree that he sounds more confused and befuddled than decades ago. I just don’t attribute it to dementia. (I freely admit that I could be wrong). Having said that, it is a data point in this discussion that his father had dementia in his later years. Fred, however, lived until 93. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/38 "2019-07-03T03:31:09Z")
> **[Trump's cognitive deficits seem worse. We need to know if he has dementia:...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2019/04/09/does-donald-trump-have-dementia-we-need-know-psychologist-column/3404007002/)** > > We see signs that the president's abilities are declining, but the only way to find out for sure is to give him a full neuropsychological evaluation. > [@](#): > > **Capsicles and mishiz and midtowm elections** > > In Alzheimer’s, as language skills deteriorate, we see two types of tell-tale speech disorders, or paraphasias: > > Semantic paraphasia involves choosing the incorrect words. For instance, after Attorney General William Barr released a letter on the Mueller report, Trump said: “I hope they now go and take a look at the oranges, the oranges of that investigation, the beginnings of that investigation." > > Phonemic paraphasia, which is linked to the moderate to severe stages of Alzheimer’s, is described as "the substitution of a word with a nonword that preserves at least half of the segments and/or number of syllables of the intended word.” For example, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu becomes “Betanyahu,” big league becomes “bigly,” anonymous becomes “enenamas” or “anenomynous,” renovation becomes “renoversh,” missiles become “mishiz,” space capsule becomes “capsicle,” midterm elections become “midtowm” and “midturn” elections, and Christmas becomes “Chrissus.” > > Trump’s speech patterns appear even more disordered when you go beyond the sound bite and look at a whole speech. He careens from one thought to the next in a parade of non sequiturs, frequently interrupting himself in the middle of a sentence to veer into another free association. When commentators described his two-hour speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference last month as “unhinged,” they were referring in large part to this quality. The entire article is worth reading but obviously I can’t quote the entire thing here. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/39 "2019-07-03T03:35:29Z")
Different article, same author > **[Trump's troubling behavior raises questions his medical exam didn't answer](https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2018/01/22/trump-behavior-raises-questions-medical-exam-didnt-answer-gartner-reiss-buser-column/1052290001/)** > > The president can identify a camel. But only more tests would detect psychiatric illness or a cognitive disease process that could be disabling. > [@](#): > > But the president’s ability to recognize a camel doesn’t negate the troubling signs of cognitive decline that we and others have noted: > ►Declining complexity of thought, rambling speech, difficulty completing a thought > ►Markedly declining vocabulary over recent years, with over reliance on superlatives > ►Episodes of slurred speech > ►Failure to recognize old friends > ►Perseveration of thought (perpetual repetition of the same concepts) > ►Decreased fine motor coordination > ►Difficulties reading, listening and comprehending > ►Suspect judgment, planning, problem solving, and impulse control > > Particularly troubling is the notable decline from his own previously high level of functioning. In interviews Trump gave in the 1980s and 1990s, according to STAT’s Sharon Begley, “he spoke articulately, used sophisticated vocabulary, inserted dependent clauses into his sentences without losing his train of thought, and strung together sentences into a polished paragraph.” She called that a stark contrast to today when “Trump’s vocabulary is simpler. He repeats himself over and over, and lurches from one subject to an unrelated one.” For decades, Begley notes, research has shown such changes can be indicative of neurodegenerative disease. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2019, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/40 "2019-07-03T03:47:14Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Many people have a certain degree of stream-of-consciousness quality to extemporaneous speech that sounds ok when you hear it, but looks downright terrible when you read a transcript. Trump is not one of those many. As far as the two pics, come on. The first one, geez, a pic of Trump caught making a ridiculous face, there’s what, approximately 800,000 to choose from? And Ivana’s attention doesn’t even seem to be on Trump, she is looking elsewhere. The second pic, well that’s just Trump’s fat ass. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379.md?page=3)