# Trump's neurological health - a rational discussion please **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [July 2, 2019, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379 "2019-07-02T03:10:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/81 "2019-07-06T16:14:32Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I think a lot of how you act in your seventies depends on how you lived your first 70 years. If you spent a fair amount of time reading, followed the news from fair sources, and took responsibility for your own actions your entire life there’s a good chance you won’t look like an old fool in your seventies. I agree, but again just being ignorant doesn’t explain all of Trump’s behavior. It doesn’t explain why he can’t keep a train of thought, why he can’t form complex sentences, why his grammar is getting all screwed up, why he seems to have trouble remembering people’s names, why he forgets why he is in a room after giving a speech, why he can’t seem to control his emotions, why he gets lost walking from his plane to his limo. Trump is an idiot, but he likely also has a narcissitic personality disorder and dementia on top of it. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/82 "2019-07-06T17:30:35Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > …Trump is an idiot, but he likely also has a narcissitic personality disorder and dementia on top of it. Yep. Obvious to most. I disagree with the likely in your post. He has never given a shit about anyone but himself. All the time Putin and Kim just laugh and laugh and laugh. What a show he’s putting on for them. ---
**Author:** ![jaycat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jaycat/32/3015_2.png) [@jaycat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jaycat)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/83 "2019-07-07T01:31:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Christ, he did say that airports were captured. By way of comparison, could someone please post all the stupid shit that George W. Bush said? (Or his father… or Reagan?) ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/84 "2019-07-07T02:26:00Z")
> [@jaycat](#): > > By way of comparison, could someone please post all the stupid shit that George W. Bush said? (Or his father… or Reagan?) Reagan had dementia. I didn’t like Bush jr and he was rightfully portrayed as an idiot, but theres a difference between being an idiot vs being an idiot who also has dementia. ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/85 "2019-07-07T04:40:59Z")
Trump has always been a staggeringly ignorant crook. But he used to be able to keep his emotions in check and put together sentences of reasonable complexity. Even in the 2016 campaign, he could get through a debate fairly coherently, if dishonestly. But now, he’s just screaming disjointed words and phrases at whoever’s within earshot. And his increasingly rigid expression and movement don’t look typical for a healthy 73 year old. To me, his marked decline in the past two years tips the scales from “idiot con man in over his head” to “dementia patient”. And, although that one picture of him and Ivanka may not prove anything by itself, I do think it’s likely that Ivanka is glued to his side either to be his caregiver or because she’s trying to take advantage of his diminished mental abilities for her own purposes. As to the comparison with GWB: Bush was ignorant and lazy and out of his depth, but he never got in front of a crowd or called Fox News and shouted random sentence fragments at them until everyone was embarrassed for him. Reagan was getting there toward the end, but as noted, he had dementia. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/86 "2019-07-08T23:35:27Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > He believes that Ivanka is glued to his side because she’s his caregiver, trying futilely to keep his dementia hidden. Here’s a picture Joseph uses to illustrate the point: [https://twitter.com/TomJChicago/status/1145134081778364416](https://twitter.com/TomJChicago/status/1145134081778364416). Trump’s jutting tongue and Ivanka’s pained expression are jarring. You can make anyone look crazy if you catch them “freeze-frame” with a camera. And it’s all subjective. To me, Ivanka doesn’t looked “pained” in the least, but instead mildly amused at something. This pic is evidence of _nothing_ regarding Trump’s neurological health. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/87 "2019-07-08T23:40:05Z")
> [@pjacks](#): > > Trump’s response when asked if he agreed with Putin that Western liberal democracy is obsolete: > > I mean… does this sound like a neurologically healthy human being? Yeah, pretty much. And it sounds to me like an ignorant buffoon trying desperately to cover up the fact that he has absolutely no idea how to answer the question, the subject of which he is intimately aware that he knows nothing about. Again, not evidence of neurologically poor health. ETA: Note how I mangled that last part of the second sentence? And I assure you, I am in perfect neurological health. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2019, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/88 "2019-07-08T23:49:29Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > Here is an interview trump did with tim russert in 1999. I think he was 53. > > The cognitive decline from then to now is impossible to ignore. Trump was cogent, coherent and used complex sentences in his 50s. His control over his emotions was much stronger. His comprehension of politics and global affairs was far stronger. > > [https://youtu.be/G\_IG07XhT3k](https://youtu.be/G_IG07XhT3k) > > Personally I think trump has both dementia and a narcissistic disorder. We need legitimate, independent medical evaluations. > > By comparison to the video of him in his 50s, here is a video of modern trump appearing to get lost walking from air force one to his limo. > > [https://youtu.be/sF5TGQgQJeA](https://youtu.be/sF5TGQgQJeA) What the hell, one more: I walk down stairs more guardedly than Trump does, and I’m pretty much, or at least close to, the ideal weight for my height, and am almost 56 years old, way younger than Trump. I do it because I don’t want to bust my ass and break my hip. I’d say Trump does it for the same reasons, and because he knows if he falls or slips, he will never hear the end of it, and not because of any neurological difficulties. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/89 "2019-07-09T00:11:28Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > …Personally I think trump has both dementia and a narcissistic disorder. We need legitimate, independent medical evaluations… I think this is a fair assessment. I don’t see Pence and the Cabinet doing anything about it though, unless Trump declines so much it’s impossible to cover up and forces their hands. I just don’t know where that line is. ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/90 "2019-07-09T00:18:52Z")
> [@Peter\_Morris](#): > > Dis somebody write the speech for him? Of course. And I’m sure the first time he read it was the only time. ---
**Author:** ![Kelby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a587f6/32.png) [@Kelby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kelby)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/91 "2019-07-09T00:23:36Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Trump has always been a staggeringly ignorant crook. But he used to be able to keep his emotions in check and put together sentences of reasonable complexity. Even in the 2016 campaign, he could get through a debate fairly coherently, if dishonestly. But now, he’s just screaming disjointed words and phrases at whoever’s within earshot. And his increasingly rigid expression and movement don’t look typical for a healthy 73 year old. > > To me, his marked decline in the past two years tips the scales from “idiot con man in over his head” to “dementia patient”. And, although that one picture of him and Ivanka may not prove anything by itself, I do think it’s likely that Ivanka is glued to his side either to be his caregiver or because she’s trying to take advantage of his diminished mental abilities for her own purposes. > > As to the comparison with GWB: Bush was ignorant and lazy and out of his depth, but he never got in front of a crowd or called Fox News and shouted random sentence fragments at them until everyone was embarrassed for him. Reagan was getting there toward the end, but as noted, he had dementia. To me, the pampered narcissism Trump has experienced most of his adult life explains 90% of it. The fluff interviews he had in the 80’s and 90’s provide little evidence of cognitive stability to me, the self-absorption still shines through, and almost always with no push-back from the interviewer. In fact, on these shows Trump was usually held up as some kind of renaissance man. Now, his every word and behavior are under scrutiny for the whole world to see, and his mental illness can no longer be hidden, even from skeptics, any longer ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/92 "2019-07-09T00:38:57Z")
I’m going to vote for cognitive dissonance. Even back when he was a moderate Republican aka RINO he was a bully in his business dealings. Look at the Apprentice he only appreciated those who either kissed his ass or were themselves bullies. Now as President he can’t bully Pelosi into submission, or the Press, or Kim Jun Un, or Xi Jinping et alii and I think he goes through his day not understanding why things are not going as he demands they should. So yes he is confused but not for neurological reasons. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/93 "2019-07-09T00:43:13Z")
Guys, it’s not that hard to figure out. “Ramparts” was on the teleprompter. He’s behind bulletproof glass, rain is beading on the panes, so probably on the screen too, and he’s got 70 year old eyes. It says “manned the ramparts.” He said “manned the air [whoops, I mean] rammed [ah fuck, it says ramparts] the ramparts.” Does it make sense? No. Does it make him look stupid? Yes. Is it hard to figure out what happened? No. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/94 "2019-07-09T01:13:18Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Guys, it’s not that hard to figure out. “Ramparts” was on the teleprompter. He’s behind bulletproof glass, rain is beading on the panes, so probably on the screen too, and he’s got 70 year old eyes. It says “manned the ramparts.” He said “manned the air [whoops, I mean] rammed [ah fuck, it says ramparts] the ramparts.” Does it make sense? No. Does it make him look stupid? Yes. Is it hard to figure out what happened? No. If the CEO of my company did anything like this, the board would replace him so fast, his head would spin. He’d be going to spend time with his family before the weekend was over. ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/95 "2019-07-09T01:56:09Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > Guys, it’s not that hard to figure out. “Ramparts” was on the teleprompter. He’s behind bulletproof glass, rain is beading on the panes, so probably on the screen too, and he’s got 70 year old eyes. It says “manned the ramparts.” He said “manned the air [whoops, I mean] rammed [ah fuck, it says ramparts] the ramparts.” Does it make sense? No. Does it make him look stupid? Yes. Is it hard to figure out what happened? No. Even if somehow this was the case, it doesn’t really explain the airports thing. I don’t know anybody would wing it and say they took over the airports. Nor does it explain the multitude of other instances of Trump seemingly either being exceptionally ignorant, or suffering from diminished mental capacity. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/96 "2019-07-09T02:27:51Z")
> [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Even if somehow this was the case, it doesn’t really explain the airports thing. I don’t know anybody would wing it and say they took over the airports. What do you mean “even if somehow”? This is most definitely the case. What do you mean “doesn’t really explain”? It explains it perfectly. Dude doesn’t know what he’s saying, isn’t listening to himself, and reads a word wrong. My second grade teacher once said that Congress is made up of the Senate and the House of Projectors. True story. I don’t know anyone else that would ever say that, either, but she said it. > [@BeepKillBeep](#): > > Nor does it explain the multitude of other instances of Trump seemingly either being exceptionally ignorant, or suffering from diminished mental capacity. Could you imagine if it did, though? Trump gets lost on the way to his limo? Teleprompter in the rain says “ramparts.” Trump tweets covfefe? Rainy teleprompter, spelling out “ramparts.” Trump abruptly reverses a major policy decision? Look closer and you’ll see a teleprompter, blurred by a light mist, flashing r-a-m-p-a-r-t-s. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/97 "2019-07-09T02:57:08Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > I’m going to vote for cognitive dissonance. Even back when he was a moderate Republican aka RINO he was a bully in his business dealings. **Look at the Apprentice he only appreciated those who either kissed his ass or were themselves bullies.** Now as President he can’t bully Pelosi into submission, or the Press, or Kim Jun Un, or Xi Jinping et alii and I think he goes through his day not understanding why things are not going as he demands they should. So yes he is confused but not for neurological reasons. Concerning the part I bolded in this quote - You do realize The Apprentice was a fictional television program and Donald Trump was just a cast member playing a character named “Donald Trump”, right? What he said and the “decisions” he made were entirely scripted and dictated by the producers. He has always been a shithead in his business dealings but the only thing that show demonstrates is what a crappy actor he is and the extent he will go to get attention. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/98 "2019-07-09T03:03:53Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > What do you mean “even if somehow”? This is most definitely the case. What do you mean “doesn’t really explain”? It explains it perfectly. Dude doesn’t know what he’s saying, isn’t listening to himself, and reads a word wrong. What we mean is what was said. It isn’t clearly true, because Trump himself did not offer that explanation. When someone is being called to task, their explanation is the one that is relevant. Explanations made up after the fact are just attempts to defend them. They have little relevance. However, even if we do allow for your explanation, it still doesn’t actually work. It doesn’t explain how, once he was off the teleprompter, he said even dumber things. There is no word that replaced “airports” that would fit, and neither Trump himself nor his speechwriters have offered one. Trump said these stupid things, which is evidence of declining intelligence compared to what he’s said before, and thus evidence of dementia. You even admitted he didn’t know what he was saying. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/99 "2019-07-09T04:16:56Z")
> [@Defensive\_Indifference](#): > > Trump has always been a staggeringly ignorant crook. But he used to be able to keep his emotions in check and put together sentences of reasonable complexity. Even in the 2016 campaign, he could get through a debate fairly coherently, if dishonestly. But now, he’s just screaming disjointed words and phrases at whoever’s within earshot. And his increasingly rigid expression and movement don’t look typical for a healthy 73 year old. In the debates, he along with the other candidates were occasionally asked tough questions, but to my memory were never pushed by the moderators or each other to the extent that they felt the need to rage at each other. Correct me if I’m wrong. But now, Trump has been president for two and a half years, and has repeatedly been raked over the coals by the left from day one. It only makes sense that he would seem angry in _some_, but certainly not all, of his responses to the press. As for screaming disjointed words and phrases, are you referring to his campaign rallies since he took office? If so, they have been even more over the top since the campaign, but not to the extent that it signals any kind of dementia. A sense of desperation at his perceived doom in the upcoming election seems a more likely cause to me. If you are referring to something else, what? I don’t remember any screaming. Yeah, he got hot under the collar at Acosta and others some, but nothing like you suggest, however vaguely. Finally, I’ve looked at all the clips here, and see Trump on TV practically every day, and never once saw anything that caused me to think, my, what rigid expressions and movement from the President. In fact, I just 5 seconds ago saw Trump strolling briskly across the White House lawn in February, looking quite nimble and healthy for a 73 year old man. Nah, I humbly suggest the claim of dementia is way off and not borne out by anything presented here. ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379/100 "2019-07-09T19:55:30Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Trump said these stupid things, which is evidence of declining intelligence compared to what he’s said before, and thus evidence of dementia. Is it, though? Does declining intelligence really mean ‘dementia’? Isn’t it possible that a person who was semi-retired, experienced in only a few areas of life, and a complete narcissist now seems dumber because he has a full-time job (yes, I realize that Trump is incredibly lazy, but he does usually have a daily work schedule now, whereas before his days were entirely up to him), is asked to weigh on the important topics of the day, and still has no interest or capacity to learn about anything other than himself? I just don’t think we need dementia to explain why Trump acts as he does. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-neurological-health-a-rational-discussion-please/836379.md?page=6)