# Trump's ongoing collusion **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 20, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196 "2018-02-20T13:39:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/41 "2018-02-21T14:25:46Z")
> [@Arizona\_Mike](#): > > A question in response - if Muleller’s investigation clears the President of any collusion, will you (and others on this site) accept the conclusion, or continue t0 hold that, somehow, Trump MUST be guilty of collusion even if Mueller couldn’t find it? > I can see this Collusion Conspiracists eventually turning into something like the 9-11 Truthers or the Waco Conspiracists, continuing to argue their case for decades into the future on message boards and obscure websites. If it is allowed to continue unimpeded, then yes. But, if he is found to have obstructed the investigation, then he needs to go obviously. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/42 "2018-02-21T14:26:50Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Thank goodness for collusion. If only “Great Leaders” through history would have colluded, the masses would have been spared much torment. Please develop this hypothetical further. Name the Great Leaders you have in mind, name the acts of collusion, and describe the end state under which the masses would have benefitted. This should be fun. ---
**Author:** ![Fiveyearlurker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/da6949/32.png) [@Fiveyearlurker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiveyearlurker)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/43 "2018-02-21T14:55:31Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Please develop this hypothetical further. Name the Great Leaders you have in mind, name the acts of collusion, and describe the end state under which the masses would have benefitted. This should be fun. The good news is that the goalposts have shifted from “no collusion, you’re all crazy libtards” to “we colluded for your own good”. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/44 "2018-02-21T15:16:44Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Please develop this hypothetical further. Name the Great Leaders you have in mind, name the acts of collusion, and describe the end state under which the masses would have benefitted. This should be fun. Lincoln colludes with Davis to allow secession in return for a significant payoff. Mass bloodshed and tyranny avoided. Slavery concludes as it did in Brazil. Occupation of the South is unnecessary. Cousins collude in Russia and Austria after the assassination. End of civilization avoided. List goes on. . . ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/45 "2018-02-21T15:18:32Z")
> [@Fiveyearlurker](#): > > The good news is that the goalposts have shifted from “no collusion, you’re all crazy libtards” to “we colluded for your own good”. I never claimed there was no collusion. I favored a Clinton victory once I was made aware of her crony Russian deals. Collusion means peace. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/46 "2018-02-21T16:00:59Z")
> [@enipla](#): > > Just about every other tweet (how did we get to a place where the President ‘tweets’) trump claims - > > NO COLLUSION! > > NO COLLUSION! > > “I’m innocent, just don’t search the closet!” Methinks the circus peanut doth protest too much. > [@enipla](#): > > If it’s proven that there is no collusion/conspiracy? OK I’ll let him off on that. > > He’s still on the hook for Obstruction of Justice (he admitted it live on national TV). And god knows what else. (Bribery, money laundering, possible misuse of election funds to pay off a porn star, using his political position for personal gain [I forget what that act is called]). [Emoluments.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/what-is-the-emoluments-clause-does-it-apply-to-president-trump/2017/01/23/12aa7808-e185-11e6-a547-5fb9411d332c_story.html) But that doesn’t apply to Trump because his sons are running the businesses in a ‘blind trust’. The only people making decisions about the Trump organization are Eric and Donald, Jr. [”And Dad!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-OBiSNOumtU) > [@enipla](#): > > Hey, hey hey. No playing favorites. trump has pissed off the British, the Australians and Germany. And CANADA for gods sake. > > And Mexico of course (they are just mostly laughing at us though). Also much of France and South Korea, Belgium, Sweden, and pretty much the entirity of Africa. He’s essentially a perfect storm of terrible relations with every strategic ally the United States has cultivated relations with in the last seventy years. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I never claimed there was no collusion. I favored a Clinton victory once I was made aware of her crony Russian deals. Collusion means peace. I submit that you should change your user name to **George Orwell**. That kind of deep ironic sarcasm should not go unrecognized. Unless, of course, you are serious as I expect you are, in which case it should be **Neville Chamberlin**. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/47 "2018-02-21T16:24:50Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Lincoln colludes with Davis to allow secession in return for a significant payoff. Mass bloodshed and tyranny avoided. Slavery concludes as it did in Brazil. Occupation of the South is unnecessary. Right. Because the US was (and is) so much like Brazil. And the South would just have given up on its major economic contributor willingly. Good luck with that. > [@](#): > > Cousins collude in Russia and Austria after the assassination. End of civilization avoided. Funny how life (and civilization) went on. A century and more after that, I’m sitting here writing a response on a computer that would not have existed without civilization. > [@](#): > > List goes on. . . You should write fantasy novels. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/48 "2018-02-21T16:36:59Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If there is clear and convincing evidence that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the election, I’ll support his impeachment. When should we expect this belated realization? Sometime around mid-century? Hell, I’ve seen conservatives still claiming that Nixon was innocent. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/49 "2018-02-21T16:40:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > Please develop this hypothetical further. Name the Great Leaders you have in mind, name the acts of collusion, and describe the end state under which the masses would have benefitted. This should be fun. Well, there was that whole pact between Stalin and Hitler over Poland. I seem to recall it did not end well. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/50 "2018-02-21T17:38:54Z")
> [@USCDiver](#): > > Real estate sold to Russian Oligarchs > [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > The rationale for probable cause to develop evidence is that the Trump organization engaged in a pattern of business dealings that suggest money-laundering. Not to mention the presence of Irakly Kaveladze, an accused money launderer, and Natalia Veselnitskaya, a Kremlin-connected attorney for another accused money launderer, at that infamous meeting about [del]Hillary[/del] [del]sanctions[/del] “adoptions”. ---
**Author:** ![Drum\_God](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drum_god/32/44_2.png) [@Drum\_God](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drum_God)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/51 "2018-02-21T18:41:56Z")
You guys are all wrong. Trump and his minions never colluded with Russia. It was Obama! Or Hillary! Somebody. Seriously, I saw this on FoxNews. For moths, the idiots of FoxNews have said that the Obama Administration interfered in the 2016 election by using the FBI to wiretap and otherwise spy on Trump and his associates. Then Mueller’s indictments came out last week. Now, without missing a beat, FoxNews is saying that, obviously, Obama didn’t interfere ENOUGH! They say that Obama’s FBI knew about Russian interference and told the POTUS, who didn’t do anything about it. Obama even told Trump to stop whining about it. So, Obama wasn’t using the FBI to torpedo Trump’s chances. He was failing to use the FBI to counter the Russians. It is only by the wits of the Stable Genius himself that he was still able to pull out a win in spite of Obama’s inaction. Somehow, they never acknowledge that this is the exact opposite of what they said a week ago. It is very Orwellian. I even saw Michelle Milkin (I think that’s her name) say that the Russian meddling was all PRESIDENT CARTER’S fault. I sh\*t you not. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/52 "2018-02-21T18:42:04Z")
Here’s a fun trivia question… Q: What’s the largest fine eve paid by a casino to the federal government? A: $10,000,000 Link: [FinCEN Fines Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort $10 Million for Significant and Long Standing Anti-Money Laundering Violations](https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-long) ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/53 "2018-02-21T18:47:24Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > When should we expect this belated realization? Sometime around mid-century? … Sometime after convincing evidence comes to light. From HMS Irruncible’s link: > [@](#): > > Representative Jim Hines, sought to temper Schiff’s comment, telling CNN that Simpson “did not provide evidence and I think that’s an important point. He made allegations.” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/54 "2018-02-21T18:53:27Z")
While it is true that smoke does not prove fire, if a fog bank rolls into LA that smells like pine trees…its a fire. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/55 "2018-02-21T19:30:20Z")
More on money laundering… Maybe Trump is innocent, but there sure does appear to be an awful lot of money laundering going on in buildings with Trump’s name on them. [Trump’s Russian Laundromat](https://newrepublic.com/article/143586/trumps-russian-laundromat-trump-tower-luxury-high-rises-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate) It’s a long article and worth a read. Here’s a sample paragraph… > [@](#): > > But even without an investigation by Congress or a special prosecutor, there is much we already know about the president’s debt to Russia. A review of the public record reveals a clear and disturbing pattern: Trump owes much of his business success, and by extension his presidency, to a flow of highly suspicious money from Russia. Over the past three decades, at least 13 people with known or alleged links to Russian mobsters or oligarchs have owned, lived in, and even run criminal activities out of Trump Tower and other Trump properties. Many used his apartments and casinos to launder untold millions in dirty money. Some ran a worldwide high-stakes gambling ring out of Trump Tower—in a unit directly below one owned by Trump. Others provided Trump with lucrative branding deals that required no investment on his part. Taken together, the flow of money from Russia provided Trump with a crucial infusion of financing that helped rescue his empire from ruin, burnish his image, and launch his career in television and politics. “They saved his bacon,” says Kenneth McCallion, a former assistant U.S. attorney in the Reagan administration who investigated ties between organized crime and Trump’s developments in the 1980s. Besides that article there’s also this guy who may know what he’s talking about. “You realize where this is going. This is all about money laundering. Mueller chose [senior prosecutor Andrew] Weissmann first and he is a money-laundering guy. Their path to f\*\*\*ing Trump goes right through Paul Manafort, Don Jr., and Jared Kushner. . . . It’s as plain as a hair on your face,” Wolff quotes Bannon saying. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 21, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/56 "2018-02-21T21:09:17Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > Here’s a fun trivia question… > > Q: What’s the largest fine eve paid by a casino to the federal government? > > A: $10,000,000 > > Link: [FinCEN Fines Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort $10 Million for Significant and Long Standing Anti-Money Laundering Violations](https://www.fincen.gov/news/news-releases/fincen-fines-trump-taj-mahal-casino-resort-10-million-significant-and-long) [A little background from CNN](https://www.cnn.com/2017/05/22/politics/trump-taj-mahal/index.html): > [@](#): > > The violations date back to a time when the Taj Mahal was the preferred gambling spot for Russian mobsters living in Brooklyn, according to federal investigators who tracked organized crime in New York City. They also occurred at a time when the Taj Mahal casino was short on cash and on the verge of bankruptcy. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/57 "2018-02-22T01:02:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > ‘I’ll have more flexibility after the election’ - not a Republican President You mean Obama actually told a Russian diplomat that presidents that don’t have to face reelection can maybe get things done that they couldn’t otherwise? The Horror, the Horror. ---
**Author:** ![SteveMonon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8491ac/32.png) [@SteveMonon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveMonon)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/58 "2018-02-22T03:18:33Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > You mean Obama actually told a Russian diplomat… What the heck are you smoking?? What “Russian diplomat”?! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/59 "2018-02-22T09:52:31Z")
Remember, kids - short statements taken out of context and repeated with a new narrative attached are sufficient evidence of wrongdoing if a Democrat is involved. Decades of actual evidence of involvement with Russian criminals and money launderers doesn’t mean anything if a Republican is involved. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/60 "2018-02-22T13:14:55Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > If there is clear and convincing evidence that Trump colluded with Russia to steal the election, I’ll support his impeachment. With all those qualifiers, this is a pretty meaningless statement. I expect that no evidence will ever be “clear and convincing” enough to satisfy Trump water-carriers. I expect that Trump greenlighting someone else’s greenlighting of stolen data spillage to be insufficient… I expect you’ll look at clear evidence of conspiracy and say “but that’s different from collusion”. You’ll look at Trump implicitly okaying Russian efforts to damage all his opponents, and say “but nobody stole any votes.” Feel free to correct any part of this that’s wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196.md?page=4)