# Trump's ongoing collusion **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [February 20, 2018, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196 "2018-02-20T13:39:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/61 "2018-02-22T13:36:59Z")
Personally I still doubt that Trump directly did anything like collude with the Russians. Various members of his campaign staff certainly did, and Trump would have been perfectly to let them do it, but I’d be very surprised if his involvement went beyond being perfectly happy to passively let the Russians do whatever they wanted as long as it benefited him, an attitude which appears to apply to many of his previous business practices as well. Obstruction, however - that’s where the “clear and convincing evidence” is likely to turn up, and even moreso for money laundering. We shall see. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/62 "2018-02-22T13:55:59Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Personally I still doubt that Trump directly did anything like collude with the Russians. Various members of his campaign staff certainly did, and Trump would have been perfectly to let them do it, but I’d be very surprised if his involvement went beyond being perfectly happy to passively let the Russians do whatever they wanted as long as it benefited him, an attitude which appears to apply to many of his previous business practices as well. > > Obstruction, however - that’s where the “clear and convincing evidence” is likely to turn up, and even moreso for money laundering. We shall see. That’s my take as well. I don’t think Donald has the patience or the intelligence to actively have taken part in the collusion part. He reminds me a lot of the governor that Mel Brooks played in Blazing Saddles- just barely conscious and totally incapable. But the coverup and money laundering are going to be what puts him in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/63 "2018-02-22T14:50:36Z")
If Trump didn’t willingly collude with or passively permit his staff to collude with the Russians, it is because Russian intelligence feared that Trump’s absolute incompetence at keeping secrets would undermine the entire effort. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/64 "2018-02-22T17:25:30Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Personally I still doubt that Trump directly did anything like collude with the Russians. Various members of his campaign staff certainly did, and Trump would have been perfectly to let them do it, but I’d be very surprised if his involvement went beyond being perfectly happy to passively let the Russians do whatever they wanted as long as it benefited him, an attitude which appears to apply to many of his previous business practices as well. > > Obstruction, however - that’s where the “clear and convincing evidence” is likely to turn up, and even moreso for money laundering. We shall see. The king of micromanagers not knowing that some of his staff were actively colluding with the Russians, including some of his own children? That’s about as likely as the sun not rising tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/65 "2018-02-22T20:55:58Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > The king of micromanagers not knowing that some of his staff were actively colluding with the Russians, including some of his own children? That’s about as likely as the sun not rising tomorrow. I’m with you on this, completely. I pretty much realized there was a conspiracy and he was in on it during that fateful campaign rally when he said, “Russia, if you’re listening…” A chill went down my spine as he said it and though I understood it was far from proved, I just knew. Speaking of chilling, I’d say he’s not done yet: [USA Cyber Election Official Masterson Pushed Out in Advance of 2018 Elections](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-election-masterson-exclusiv/exclusive-u-s-official-focused-on-election-security-being-shoved-aside-idUSKCN1G62NI). (Reuters) > [@](#): > > The head of a federal agency who has helped U.S. states protect election systems from possible cyber attacks by Russia or others is being removed from his post by Republican House of Representatives Speaker Paul Ryan and the White House. > > … > > Masterson has been a popular figure among state election officials, many of whom have praised his expertise and leadership on cyber security issues and expressed chagrin at his pending departure. The agency was created by Congress in 2002 to assist states in complying with federal election standards. Guy was picked by John Boehner, no less. What could Ryan and Trump have talked about last weekend at Mar a Lago? Between this and [the meeting between Russia’s top spy folks, Dan Coats and Mike Pompeo](https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2018/01/31/582059134/russian-spy-chief-reportedly-met-with-u-s-intelligence-officials-despite-sanctio) (NPR) _that we had to learn about through Russian media_, you just have to wonder. Seems to me they’re kind of _hoping and planning_ for some Russian interference. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Economist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c89c15/32.png) [@Evil\_Economist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Economist)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/66 "2018-02-22T21:28:30Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > With all those qualifiers, this is a pretty meaningless statement. I expect that no evidence will ever be “clear and convincing” enough to satisfy Trump water-carriers. I expect that Trump greenlighting someone else’s greenlighting of stolen data spillage to be insufficient… I expect you’ll look at clear evidence of conspiracy and say “but that’s different from collusion”. You’ll look at Trump implicitly okaying Russian efforts to damage all his opponents, and say “but nobody stole any votes.” > > Feel free to correct any part of this that’s wrong. No, that’s right. \*\*HurricaneDitka \*\*managed to read the DOJ report on racial bias in policing in Ferguson and not find any evidence of racial bias in policing in Ferguson. I suspect he has it in him to watch a video of Trump colluding with Russians without finding any evidence of Trump colluding with Russians. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/67 "2018-02-22T22:38:09Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > No, that’s right. \*\*HurricaneDitka \*\*managed to read the DOJ report on racial bias in policing in Ferguson and not find any evidence of racial bias in policing in Ferguson. I suspect he has it in him to watch a video of Trump colluding with Russians without finding any evidence of Trump colluding with Russians. You let me know when there’s a video and we can find out, k? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/68 "2018-02-22T22:56:44Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I’m with you on this, completely. I pretty much realized there was a conspiracy and he was in on it during that fateful campaign rally when he said, “Russia, if you’re listening…” A chill went down my spine as he said it and though I understood it was far from proved, I just knew. The Washington _Post_ has [a handy-dandy timeline of connections between Team Trump and Putin pals](https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/trump-russia/?utm_term=.817638b5c3ed). ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/69 "2018-02-22T23:02:11Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > You let me know when there’s a video and we can find out, k? I’m sure Mueller will release it with the rest of the evidence he has under wraps. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 22, 2018, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/70 "2018-02-22T23:17:20Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I’m sure Mueller will release it with the rest of the evidence he has under wraps. [“Well, obviously I can’t, uh, discuss particulars of an ongoing investigation, but, uh…heh…yeah, we’re good.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU1aQmjFikM) Stranger ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/71 "2018-02-23T00:11:20Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > I’m sure Mueller will release it with the rest of the evidence he has under wraps. Great. When he does, we’ll have some actual evidence to examine, rather than all this silly evidence-free speculation that currently occupies so many of your minds. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/72 "2018-02-23T00:14:41Z")
What I wouldn’t give to see him play heads-up poker with Doyle Brunson. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/73 "2018-02-23T00:22:25Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > The US initiated a coup in Ukraine Cite? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/74 "2018-02-23T00:24:48Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Cite? :dubious: I was hoping no one would ask. Now we have to read a bunch of weird speculation about Victoria Nuland. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/75 "2018-02-23T00:32:52Z")
> [@Drum\_God](#): > > For moths, the idiots of FoxNews have said that the Obama Administration interfered in the 2016 election by using the FBI to wiretap and otherwise spy on Trump and his associates. Then Mueller’s indictments came out last week. What were they saying for butterflies? ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/76 "2018-02-23T00:34:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > What I wouldn’t give to see him play heads-up poker with Doyle Brunson. _Listen, here’s the thing. If you can’t spot the sucker in your first half hour at the table, then you ARE the sucker._ Stranger ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/77 "2018-02-23T00:36:23Z")
Could be true, but I’m usually broke at twenty minutes, so I never got to test that. So, at this point, there is no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/78 "2018-02-23T00:50:28Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > [“Well, obviously I can’t, uh, discuss particulars of an ongoing investigation, but, uh…heh…yeah, we’re good.”](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU1aQmjFikM) > > Stranger Damn, I love that. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/79 "2018-02-23T01:09:06Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Damn, I love that. 😃 Kate McKinnon never disappoints. If she were a stock, she’d be S&P 500. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2018, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196/80 "2018-02-23T12:12:22Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Great. When he does, we’ll have some actual evidence to examine, rather than all this silly evidence-free speculation that currently occupies so many of your minds. I know! It’s all a big nothingburger…apart from the 18 or 19 indictments and the two guilty pleas thus far. I’m sure this will all blow over. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-ongoing-collusion/809196.md?page=5)