# Trump's portrait of Kaiser Wilhelm **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 9, 2023, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264 "2023-06-09T20:04:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 12:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/21 "2023-06-10T12:42:17Z")
> [@APB](#): > > The second figure in the painting isn’t Wilhelm II but the German ambassador to Washington, Theodor von Holleben. Still an impressive mustache. But what kind of dog does he have in this photo? [![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/TheodorvoHolleben2.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/TheodorvoHolleben2.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/22 "2023-06-10T13:01:29Z")
Will someone please photoshop that mustache onto the former President’s face? ---
**Author:** ![smithsb](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smithsb/32/12107_2.png) [@smithsb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/smithsb)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/23 "2023-06-10T13:20:05Z")
He’s just twisting/fixing his mustache. I have a handlebar in similar fashion. The wax can dry out; a little squeeze and a roll of the thumb and index finger softens and renews the shape. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/24 "2023-06-10T13:31:07Z")
> [@APB](#): > > The second figure in the painting isn’t Wilhelm II but the German ambassador to Washington, Theodor von Holleben. Thank you . That makes more sense. I wouldn’t have thought Teddy and the Kaiser ever really met in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/25 "2023-06-10T13:53:03Z")
They did. > **[\[Theodore Roosevelt riding on horseback with Kaiser Wilhelm II\]](https://www.loc.gov/item/2013650883/)** > > 1 photographic print. | Photograph shows Roosevelt and Kaiser Wilhelm riding on horseback in Döberitz, Germany; German troops in background. TR once said “There is much that I admire about the Kaiser”, but much that he didn’t. “I get exasperated with the Kaiser because of his sudden vagaries . . . like his speech about the yellow peril … a speech worthy of any fool Congressman; and I cannot of course follow or take too seriously a man whose policy is one of such violent and often wholly irrational zig-zags” - TR ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/26 "2023-06-10T13:54:21Z")
> [@smithsb](#): > > He’s just twisting/fixing his mustache. Which is the old timey clue that he is the villain in the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/27 "2023-06-10T13:55:32Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > They did. Interesting. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/28 "2023-06-10T14:09:32Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > T.R. was, in many ways, what Trump pretends to be: a bombastic populist who was genuinely interested in cleaning up corruption and who put the common good ahead of corporate and political interests. I can’t see Trump giving a speech after being shot in the chest. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/29 "2023-06-10T14:22:00Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > > [@Miller](#): > > > > T.R. was, in many ways, what Trump pretends to be: a bombastic populist who was genuinely interested in cleaning up corruption and who put the common good ahead of corporate and political interests. > > I can’t see Trump giving a speech after being shot in the chest.- Or speaking softly. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/30 "2023-06-10T14:55:09Z")
Nevermind, this is FQ. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/31 "2023-06-10T16:20:49Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > I can’t see Trump giving a speech after being shot in the chest. “Pretends to be” being the operative phrase, there. ---
**Author:** ![APB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8e8cbc/32.png) [@APB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/APB)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2023, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/32 "2023-06-10T16:57:57Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > They did. After posting, the question as to whether they ever met did occur to me. My hunch was that they probably hadn’t and they certainly couldn’t have done so while Roosevelt was President, but given how widely travelled both men were, it didn’t seem impossible that their paths crossed at some point. For them to have met when Roosevelt was touring Europe after being President makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/33 "2023-06-12T02:04:23Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > Just to point out that the painting behind tanTrump is not the same **Skywatcher** linked to in his quote from “the disgraced former President…”, but a copy, and a mediocre one at that. All the surfaces are very flat and the rug does not keep the room together, but has vanished. Oh, it has a signature by the paper basket. And a gilded frame (probably stolen). > That is not an accident either, and not the first time he has shown off a stolen picture or a badly copied one he claims is the original [(cite)](https://www.insideedition.com/fake-hues-renoir-painting-hangs-trump-tower-knock-art-institute-says-37341). I tried to find out where the original is. I couldn’t find it. The painting is called “The Doctrine of Monroe.” ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/34 "2023-06-12T02:20:32Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Interesting too, that the reason the Trump family is in the USA is because his grandfather skipped the country to avoid being arrested in Germany for avoiding the WWI draft. Not quite. Friedrich Trump departed for the US in 1895 and returned a decade later, but the government of Bavaria refused to let him repatriate because he hadn’t done mandatory military service and hadn’t informed the government when he first emigrated, and the Prince Regent refused his appeal and ordered him exiled. > **[Historian finds German decree banishing Trump's grandfather](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/nov/21/trump-grandfather-friedrich-banished-germany-historian-royal-decree)** > > Royal decree ordered Friedrich Trump to leave Germany and never come back after he failed to do military service ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/35 "2023-06-12T03:42:13Z")
Can’t find the original, but reproductions are easily available on Amazon and other websites: > **[Amazon.com: Doctrine of Monroe - Teddy Roosevelt by Jean Leon Gerome Ferris -...](https://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Monroe-Roosevelt-Gerome-Ferris/dp/B08PSHRHZQ)** > > Amazon.com: Doctrine of Monroe - Teddy Roosevelt by Jean Leon Gerome Ferris - 24" x 30" Framed Canvas Art Print - Black Frame - Ready to Hang: Posters & Prints ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/36 "2023-06-12T04:02:01Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > Can’t find the original, but reproductions are easily available on Amazon and other websites: > > [https://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Monroe-Roosevelt-Gerome-Ferris/dp/B08PSHRHZQ?th=1](https://www.amazon.com/Doctrine-Monroe-Roosevelt-Gerome-Ferris/dp/B08PSHRHZQ?th=1) Yes I saw that. I was trying to find the original. ---
**Author:** ![Pardel-Lux](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pardel-lux/32/20182_2.png) [@Pardel-Lux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pardel-Lux)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 8:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/37 "2023-06-12T08:35:02Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > […], but the Kaiser was also considered quite intelligent. Sorry, I must strongly disagree: The Kaiser was considered to be dumb, with poor judgement, no intelectual depth, incapable of concentrating, voluble and vain, blended by appearances, particularly uniforms, easily manipulated and a sucker for flattery. Amazing parallels to tanTrump, I must say. Worse than a [chartered accountant](https://youtu.be/NAOQH4xEyhM?t=86). The odds that the world would be a better place had he\* never been born are high. \* you may choose which “he” I mean and I fear you would be right in both cases ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/38 "2023-06-12T12:54:21Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Not quite. Friedrich Trump departed for the US in 1895 and returned a decade later One item I read said he got rich running a bar/brothel in the Yukon in Canada during the gold rush… ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/39 "2023-06-12T13:03:55Z")
> [@Pardel-Lux](#): > > > [@Jackmannii](#): > > > > […], but the Kaiser was also considered quite intelligent. > > Sorry, I must strongly disagree: The Kaiser was considered to be dumb Not according to most sources. “As a teenager, Wilhelm showed a quick mind and an aptitude for history and the sciences. He was also stubborn, arrogant, moody and prone to frightening outbursts and tantrums.” “Endowed with a high intelligence and an excellent memory, he was capable of the most crashing stupidities.” > **[Kaiser Wilhelm II - World War I](https://alphahistory.com/worldwar1/kaiser-wilhelm-ii/)** > > Kaiser Wilhelm II is considered by many historians to be the individual most responsible for the outbreak of war. From [foreignpolicy.com](http://foreignpolicy.com): “Wilhelm II was by all accounts a pretty smart guy, but he frequently acted like a spoiled teenager and was prone to rash and bellicose remarks …” And on and on. One can be quite intelligent but have an unstable personality that repeatedly leads to stupid acts. ---
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [June 12, 2023, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264/40 "2023-06-12T14:20:30Z")
Typical Trumpy imagery stunt. Thin one at that. Pose in front of some warm, old-timey looking portrait of some aristocracy looking dude to give an air of regalness and importance to one’s self. Only the saps would absorb any of that BS, and wouldn’t know or care about the painting’s subject or history, or relation to their idol. Like all the gaudy faux crystals and faux gold-plating decor, just smoke in front of the king of faux. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-portrait-of-kaiser-wilhelm/985264.md?page=3)