# Trump's Possible Crimes **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 24, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853 "2020-12-24T23:16:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/21 "2020-12-26T19:21:17Z")
> [@songsearch](#): > > What’s your evidence that he cheated on taxes? Just askin’ I for one have no evidence. Trump, as you may know, famously hides his taxes from the American people he supposedly serves. Anyway, Trump’s _possible_ crimes most certainly include tax crimes. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/22 "2020-12-26T19:25:57Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > Like this? The ape in that video has better hair. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2020, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/23 "2020-12-26T20:57:13Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > This is one of those times. _Crimes against humanity?_ _ **Really?** _ Listen to yourself. It’s possible if somebody wanted to build a case around breaking up families and locking up children. I’ll concede it probably doesn’t rise to the level of a crime against humanity. But it’s within shouting distance. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/24 "2020-12-28T15:47:20Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > I for one have no evidence. And maybe he shot someone on Fifth Ave. by this logic. Anyway, he can’t hide his taxes from the authorities forever, and as you say, I hope the IRS gets on it pronto. I’m not really so sure, though, why so many think he has cheated on his taxes. I don’t for a minute believe he’s been under audit for as long as he says, but I also think he is smart enough to have tax attorneys and accountants to make sure he gets away with as much as legally possible, without breaking the law. ---
**Author:** ![songsearch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@songsearch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsearch)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/25 "2020-12-28T16:59:26Z")
Like Trump, I prefer to keep my tax records private, and we are allowed to do so by law. Does that mean I should be presumed guilty of crime? There’s been a lot of accusations thrown around by the opposition in the last four years, and it’s already started with Biden. There has been no indictments of Trump and no convictions, yet he’s assumed to be guilty. Whether you like him or hate him, Trump or Biden, I think the character assassination that goes on in the media (and this board) is ridiculous. Assume the worst, and that’s what you’ll get. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/26 "2020-12-28T17:08:08Z")
> [@songsearch](#): > > Whether you like him or hate him, Trump or Biden, I think the character assassination that goes on in the media (and this board) is ridiculous. It’s a problem here, no doubt. The first political web site I became familiar with so many years ago was the great Bob Somersby’s “The Daily Howler”. Archives, and a link to his new site available here: > **[The Daily Howler](http://www.dailyhowler.com)** > > THE DAILY HOWLER is the first post-Socratic press corps review and applies the simplest rules of thought to the exertions of the celebrity press corps. His thing has always been that liberals should not use the tactics popularized by Fox News and the like. That when the Rachel Maddows of the world make unsupported claims, they should be called out for it, because in the end it will do more harm than good to liberals’ cause. I couldn’t agree more, and always question assumptions made about Trump, and will occasionally even support him, as I do here. Do check out Somerby. He is the best. I’d like to think that if the left, while pointing out many things that Trump did wrong, would have left out the other criticisms that they couldn’t support with actual facts, then the Biden things you allude to wouldn’t be happening as much from the right. Wishful thinking, I know. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/27 "2020-12-28T17:34:13Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’m not really so sure, though, why so many think he has cheated on his taxes. > [@songsearch](#): > > Like Trump, I prefer to keep my tax records private, and we are allowed to do so by law. Does that mean I should be presumed guilty of crime? Based on the sworn testimony of Michael Cohen to Congress, I think there is ample evidence to launch investigations into tax cheating. Here’s one: [https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/27/politics/michael-cohen-trump-tax-returns-financials/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2019/02/27/politics/michael-cohen-trump-tax-returns-financials/index.html) You can do a search and find many others. It’s not speculative when there is actual evidence of cheating. That includes sworn testimony. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/28 "2020-12-28T17:36:11Z")
> [@songsearch](#): > > Like Trump, I prefer to keep my tax records private, and we are allowed to do so by law. Does that mean I should be presumed guilty of crime? Unlike Trump, you are not running for president. There is a longstanding precedent that someone running for president release their tax returns. There is not a longstanding precedent that _you_ release you tax returns. So, there is more than just a little bit of a difference there. > [@songsearch](#): > > There has been no indictments of Trump He _was_ impeached. As for the reason for no indictments, there is also a DOJ memo that apparently is binding that a sitting president cannot be indicted. > [@songsearch](#): > > Trump or Biden, I think the character assassination that goes on in the media (and this board) is ridiculous. The difference is, basic honest reporting of the facts is considered to be character assassination of Trump, while in order to do the same for Biden requires 15 miles of yarn and a blackboard. > [@songsearch](#): > > Assume the worst, and that’s what you’ll get. What we have is Trump. There are no assumptions there, just basic observation. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/29 "2020-12-28T17:41:44Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’d like to think that if the left, while pointing out many things that Trump did wrong, would have left out the other criticisms that they couldn’t support with actual facts, Like? > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > then the Biden things you allude to wouldn’t be happening as much from the right. Sure, they wouldn’t. Just like there wouldn’t have been 10 investigations into Benghazi, or emails, or whatever else if it weren’t for criticisms of Trump. You admit that that the right just makes things up, then infer that “both sides do it” without actually supporting that assertion with actual facts. I’d like to think that those who criticize the left, while pointing out that nothing that Trump did wrong was all that bad, would leave out their criticisms that they cannot support with actual facts. > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Wishful thinking, I know. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/30 "2020-12-28T17:44:23Z")
> [@songsearch](#): > > Whether you like him or hate him, Trump or Biden, I think the character assassination that goes on in the media (and this board) is ridiculous. You have to have character for it to be assassinated. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/31 "2020-12-28T17:44:30Z")
> [@songsearch](#): > > Like Trump, I prefer to keep my tax records private, and we are allowed to do so by law. Also, unlike Trump, if your tax records were subpoenaed by congress, you would not be allowed to withhold them. > [@songsearch](#): > > Does that mean I should be presumed guilty of crime? If you refused a subpoena, then yes, you _would_ be guilty of a crime. And it would be a reasonable presumption that you are doing so in order to hide others. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/32 "2020-12-28T17:46:18Z")
> [@songsearch](#): > > There has been no indictments of Trump Untrue. He is named as ‘Individual 1’ in the criminal campaign finance violations case that sent Michael Cohen to prison. If he is successfully pardoned, he will likely avoid being prosecuted for that crime. But he is a named defendant in an unfinished federal criminal case. It is only because of the DOJ memo mentioned by @k9bfriender that precludes charging a sitting president that he avoided being charged with multiple counts of criminal obstruction of justice that occurred during the Mueller investigation. If an average citizen obstructed justice in that way, we’d be put away for an impressive stretch of prison time. ---
**Author:** ![songsearch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@songsearch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsearch)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/33 "2020-12-28T18:07:34Z")
Saying Cohen is a reliable witness is a stretch. The first thing he did after he turned on Trump was to write of book. For money. My own feeling is that whenever the accusers say they are writing a book (for money) about the supposed crimes of a president, I pretty much discard their testimony and public statements. Am I wrong to assume that lieing for profit is a motive for their actions? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/34 "2020-12-28T18:12:35Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Based on the sworn testimony of Michael Cohen to Congress, I think there is ample evidence to launch investigations into tax cheating. Agreed that there should be investigations, as I stated earlier. But to some, it seems to be a forgone conclusion that he has cheated. I’ll hold off judgement until the investigation is complete. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/35 "2020-12-28T18:14:00Z")
> [@songsearch](#): > > Saying Cohen is a reliable witness is a stretch. Sure, except his testimony was _under oath_. Think he wanted a perjury charge that would result in more prison time? I think you are going to be deeply disappointed with your present conclusions when Trump is out of office and is actually charged and tried for his alleged crimes. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/36 "2020-12-28T18:15:06Z")
> [@songsearch](#): > > Am I wrong to assume that lieing for profit is a motive for their actions? That would not be a reasonable assumption for perjuring oneself, no. It should require a bit more than mere speculation and unfounded assertion absent any evidence to make such a claim. > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’ll hold off judgement until the investigation is complete. The investigation was obstructed, intentionally, by Trump while he was president. If Trump is investigated after he leaves office, will you be happy to see that the investigation that you are calling for is underway, or will you claim that he is only being investigated for political purposes? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/37 "2020-12-28T18:18:05Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > You admit that that the right just makes things up, then infer that “both sides do it” without actually supporting that assertion with actual facts. This is a thread about Trump’s crimes. Please excuse me for not hijacking. But do you really think the left is above such tactics? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If Trump is investigated after he leaves office, will you be happy to see that the investigation that you are calling for is underway, or will you claim that he is only being investigated for political purposes? Why would you ask me about what I may or may not claim? Is there some sort of suggestion I am missing here, that I have some ulterior motive? I want to see investigations that are warranted, as I have said. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/38 "2020-12-28T18:20:11Z")
Of course there’s evidence that he committed tax fraud. Doesn’t anyone remember the Trump Foundation? The supposed charitable organization that he donated big money to? The charitable organization that didn’t even exist? I mean, I suppose that it’s theoretically conceivable that he didn’t declare any of those “donations” on his tax forms, but does anyone seriously believe that? And heck, there are plenty of other crimes that we have plenty of evidence for. He himself has admitted to sexual assault. He publicly took part in acts of war against the US. Hell, that stunt with the hurricane chart and the marker was a federal felony. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/39 "2020-12-28T18:25:42Z")
Pardoning war criminals is a crime against humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/40 "2020-12-28T18:26:14Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I mean, I suppose that it’s theoretically conceivable that he didn’t declare any of those “donations” on his tax forms, but does anyone seriously believe that? This is the kind of thing I’m talking about. You are sure that he declared them, but I am not. He very well may have, but do you not even want to see actual evidence before you decide? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853.md?page=3)