# Trump's Possible Crimes **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [December 24, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853 "2020-12-24T23:16:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/41 "2020-12-28T18:29:33Z")
I cannot think of another legal thing that Trump did that is more reprehensible. I have long said that while I have utter contempt for Trump as a president and human being, I do not hate him. This is causing me to rethink that. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/42 "2020-12-28T18:30:21Z")
Of course I want to see evidence. That’s why Congress subpoenaed his tax forms. Which subpoena, you may recall, he obstructed. Why do you suppose he did that? Why, if he wasn’t declaring the “donations”, do you think he was making them? And while we’re at it, why do you think he publicly admitted to sexual assault? And what’s your non-criminal theory for his public cooperation with acts of war? Or for the public misconstruing of National Weather Service data? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/43 "2020-12-28T18:36:54Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Please excuse me for not hijacking. If you were not looking to hijack, then you would not have made this claim: > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I’d like to think that if the left, while pointing out many things that Trump did wrong, would have left out the other criticisms that they couldn’t support with actual facts, Or really anything else in your post #26. If you truly think that it is a hijack, then you can make a new thread where you make and actually support these claims. As you made them in this thread, I’m just asking you to support the assertions that you have made. > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > But do you really think the left is above such tactics? Are you claiming they have done so, or are you just claiming that they _would_ do so? For the former, yes, some evidence of your claim would be useful, and for the latter, that’s just your opinion that “both sides do it.” > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > Is there some sort of suggestion I am missing here, that I have some ulterior motive? You seem to have forgotten the investigations that have been done, and were obstructed by the Trump administration, and then claim that we believe there is something nefarious going on with no evidence. If obstruction of an investigation isn’t evidence that we should be suspicious, then I don’t what is. > [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > I want to see investigations that are warranted, as I have said. So, you agree that Trump should not have obstructed the investigations that were warranted? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/44 "2020-12-28T18:38:32Z")
Sure, we’d love to see the evidence. If he had complied with the subpoena of his tax records, then that evidence would be had, one way or the other. But he did not. If you suspect someone of tax fraud, and when you go to investigate their records, they start shredding them, would you then think to yourself, “Hmmm, no evidence here, must be innocent!”? ---
**Author:** ![songsearch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@songsearch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsearch)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/45 "2020-12-28T18:40:20Z")
Cohen pled guilty to lying to a Senate committee about efforts to build a [Trump Tower in Moscow](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_Tower_Moscow). His credibility was nil after that point in time, as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/46 "2020-12-28T18:45:16Z")
And if Michael Cohen were the only person on the planet making such assertions, I might agree with you. But he admitted his lies, served time for them and has not been charged with perjury for his testimony. I am confident there are people who would have been delighted to charge him with perjury if he had lied before Congress again. I noticed you completely ignored my post regarding Trump having been actually charged as Individual 1 in the same indictment that sent Cohen to prison. What’s your explanation for that? Do you think Cohen paid a sex worker $130,000 of his own money “just cuz,” when it was Trump who benefited from that payment? ---
**Author:** ![songsearch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@songsearch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsearch)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/47 "2020-12-28T18:45:45Z")
Shredding your tax records is not going to help your case, if you’re being audited. No records is worse than having records. With no records to back up your deductions for whatever reason, they will be disallowed, and you’ll pay the piper. ---
**Author:** ![songsearch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@songsearch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsearch)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/48 "2020-12-28T18:47:29Z")
I’m a little fuzzy on why they referred to ‘Individual 1’, instead of using his actual name. Can you explain? ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/49 "2020-12-28T18:49:32Z")
It’s custom and practice according to DOJ until you can actually charge the person named as ‘Individual 1.’ Since the DOJ memo precludes charging a sitting president, ‘Individual 1’ must do until he’s out of office – by which time he will have pardoned himself, or had someone else pardon him, if he can. Again, what possible explanation can there be for Cohen to have made the payment to the sex worker? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/50 "2020-12-28T18:52:26Z")
Unless of course, those records indicate fraud. I’d be happy to pay taxes and not be able to deduct things that I could write off if it also meant that I was not implicating myself in money laundering or other financial crimes. What reason do you suspect Trump refused to comply with a congressional subpoena? ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/51 "2020-12-28T18:53:03Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > If you were not looking to hijack, then you would not have made this claim: Not gonna happen. A New Year’s resolution of mine is to stick to the thread topic, and not get sucked into peripheral conversations, especially when others allude to a certain unsupported dishonesty on my part. But if you’d like to start a thread where you answer my question as to whether the left is above such tactics, I’ll check it out. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/52 "2020-12-28T18:54:16Z")
So, you retract your post #26 and apologize for your hijack then? Apology accepted. ---
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/53 "2020-12-28T18:55:54Z")
Let me know if you start that thread. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/54 "2020-12-28T19:02:51Z")
Eh, as you are the one making the accusation, you can start it. If I were to start it, then that would be a precedent that I’d have to start a thread on everything and anything that I don’t believe, and I ain’t got time for that. ---
**Author:** ![songsearch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@songsearch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsearch)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/55 "2020-12-28T19:09:36Z")
Only Cohen knows the answer to that, and he’s an admitted liar. Where does that leave us? ---
**Author:** ![songsearch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b77776/32.png) [@songsearch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/songsearch)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/56 "2020-12-28T19:14:47Z")
I imagine he refused because he judged it to be a political ploy to discredit him in the public eye. The public perception of business is normally negative because the public in general is uninformed and doesn’t understand tax law, especially deductions that encourage business development. Hell, I would wager that 9 out of 10 don’t understand the difference between gross profit and net profit. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/57 "2020-12-28T19:18:28Z")
Though I do note that your objections to continuing the line of reasoning that you started that you then called a hijack were done in lieu of responding to things that were actually relevant to the thread. So, since you are focused and staying on task: > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Sure, we’d love to see the evidence. If he had complied with the subpoena of his tax records, then that evidence would be had, one way or the other. But he did not. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > Trump should not have obstructed the investigations that were warranted? > [@k9bfriender](#): > > If Trump is investigated after he leaves office, will you be happy to see that the investigation that you are calling for is underway I also note that you didn’t actually answer this question, but instead took my asking it to be me suggesting you have ulterior motives. So, I ask you, do you look forward to a full investigation of Trump once he is no longer able to obstruct it? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/58 "2020-12-28T19:18:58Z")
> [@songsearch](#): > > Whether you like him or hate him, Trump or Biden, I think the character assassination that goes on in the media (and this board) is ridiculous. Assume the worst, and that’s what you’ll get. This is Trump’s character, in his own words: "I don’t even wait. And when you’re a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. … Grab ‘em by the pussy. You can do anything.” He brags about sexually assaulting women. HIS OWN WORDS. And you dare to complain about how the media (and this board) are mean to him? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/59 "2020-12-28T19:20:32Z")
> [@Fiddle\_Peghead](#): > > But do you really think the left is above such tactics? “The left would do it too!” he asserted, with no evidence. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2020, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853/60 "2020-12-28T19:26:23Z")
> [@songsearch](#): > > I imagine he refused because he judged it to be a political ploy to discredit him in the public eye. So, if there is a subpoena for my tax records, could I use the same excuse? > [@songsearch](#): > > The public perception of business is normally negative because the public in general is uninformed and doesn’t understand tax law, especially deductions that encourage business development. Eh, not really. It’s when paying off hookers is written off as a business expense that the general public doesn’t understand. > [@songsearch](#): > > Hell, I would wager that 9 out of 10 don’t understand the difference between gross profit and net profit. I wouldn’t say that high. But I do know quite a number of people who don’t know the difference between marginal taxes and effective taxes. They all vote for republicans. But, anyway, what does the general public have to do with a congressional subpoena? It would have only been members of congress, and not even all of them, but only those in the relevant committees who would have seen and had access to them. If you want to make the argument that Trump thought that people were too stupid to vote for him after seeing his taxes, then that is an argument for not following the longstanding precedent of releasing his taxes during the campaign. (As well as an admission that Trump lied when he said that the only reason that he could not release them was because they were under audit, and that otherwise, he would have been more than happy to.) However, you are now making the argument that the public being stupid is a reason why he could not comply with a congressional subpoena, which is entirely different, and does not follow. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-possible-crimes/928853.md?page=4)