# Trump's Promises & What His Fans Expect **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 18, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307 "2016-09-18T22:02:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/21 "2016-09-20T19:56:23Z")
But you see, they don’t believe THAT is what will happen, or worse yet they already expect it is what will happen anyway. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/22 "2016-09-20T19:56:38Z")
Trump supporters can say they love him because he tells like it like it is, then later say of course Trump didn’t really mean _that_. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/23 "2016-09-20T20:01:26Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > This claim is frequently made by Trump supporters, but I’m skeptical. Really, what people are craving is to have Grandma’s Social Security check fail to show up, and the meat-processing plant stop being inspected, and the National Guard pay system go kablooey? _Really_? People are craving highways that don’t get repaired and seeing the Coast Guard shut down their bases and VA hospitals close? _Seriously??_ > > As I say: I’m skeptical. I can’t help suspecting it’s just another fake excuse. That’s not how \*\*\*they \*\*\*see it; you’re projecting your views onto theirs. People who propose an idea typically only see the benefits from their perspective and not the drawbacks. The football fans who scream for their team’s starting quarterback to be benched after he throws an interception aren’t envisioning the backup quarterback coming in and throwing more interceptions. They’re envisioning the backup quarterback coming in and playing much better while throwing no interceptions. The activists who call for the police to be disarmed after another unjustified-shooting incidents aren’t envisioning a society in which unarmed cops are outgunned by criminals and cannot exert lethal force in situations that require lethal force and in which crime skyrockets. They’re envisioning a society of…no more unjustified cop shootings. Similarly, many Trump supporters aren’t envisioning a society of broken bridges, no Social Security checks, no airline flights, etc. They’re envisioning a society in which Social Security, infrastructure, etc. remains intact, but suddenly all illegal immigrants are deported, career do-nothing politicians are kicked out, Islamic terrorism ceases to exist, the economy suddenly jump-starts and the coal industry has double-digit growth every year. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/24 "2016-09-20T20:03:42Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > For many Trump supporters, it’s not that complex. The specific policy details can wait, or don’t matter. What they are tired of is “same old, same old”. They are sick and tired of being sick and tired, to use the expression. They can overlook almost any flaw in the Donald. What they want is to take a sledgehammer to Washington DC and smash the establishment. They want upheaval of the status quo. > > For these folks, talking about racism, sexism, “Trump’s budgets don’t add up” is just noise whistling past their ears. They don’t care. They want to smash the “same old” and have something radically different for once. The pieces from the wreckage can be picked up and sorted out later. > And in an era of poverty, high student debt, $30,000 hospital bills, job outsourcing, laws not being enforced, condescending media, everyone-has-a-grievance, and short attention spans, and endless stories about Washington gridlock - frankly, they do have a point. It’s hard to blame them. I don’t support Trump, but his supporters’ visceral disgust with the status quo is perfectly understandable. Wanting to smash the “same old, same old” establishment is a legit sentiment to a certain extent. I might believe this was the driving factor except that Trump built up his political prominence on birtherism, and then on “Mexicans are rapists” and the wall, and then on banning Muslims. None of that is about the poverty/debt/economic hardship you speak of – it’s about white identity and grievance. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/25 "2016-09-20T20:27:03Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > This claim is frequently made by Trump supporters, but I’m skeptical. Really, what people are craving is to have Grandma’s Social Security check fail to show up, and the meat-processing plant stop being inspected, and the National Guard pay system go kablooey? _Really_? People are craving highways that don’t get repaired and seeing the Coast Guard shut down their bases and VA hospitals close? _Seriously??_ It’s fair to be skeptical of any short explanation, but OTOH I don’t see any basis in the statement you’re answering or the campaign itself to say Trump supporters\* want to end Social Security or close down the Coast Guard. That’s seems a bit of anachronistic anti-Tea Party hyperbole. The TP has/had overlapping members with the positively Trumpist faction of the GOP but is definitely not the same thing. A lot of actual pro-Trumps are actually people tired of accepting professed GOP conservative policy ideology (smaller govt more free markets etc) they don’t really agree with but went along with for the GOP’s cultural pitch, or moreover because they hate that of the Democrats. Trumpism is where that urge bursts free into ‘anti establishment’ big government populism. And as the previous post said, a lot of the specific policy stuff is noise to those voters anyway (most voters across the spectrum), so it doesn’t contradict this point to say eg ‘but Trump has a big tax cut plan like a regular or ‘Tea Party’ Republican’…but which he amends or contradicts routinely, and it is not anywhere near the core of his popularity. I would say a good explanation of what actual pro-Trump’s (along actually with a lot of Bernie-ites, though they are largely different kinds of voters coming at it from a different angle, and some voters who don’t like Trump or Bernie or Hillary) expect in Jonathan Rauch’s article in Atlantic back in July. They are ‘politiphobes’ who think the nation’s problems have simple solutions and that the normal give and take of politics is unnecessary and corrupt. ‘ENSIDS’ (empathetic, non-self-interested decision makers) should just sort it out. But who do the ENSIDS empathize with? That’s what tends to sort out leftist v. rightist politophobes. Interesting terminology, though it partly just overlaps with older terminology, populists. Trump’s supporters are rightist populists. They want simple solutions that serve them and the community as they conceive of it, where the whole ‘racist’ thing tends to enter in, but I really think that’s a better slogan for getting Clinton voters to the polls than actually understanding what Trump’s appeal is about. > **[How American Politics Went Insane](https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/07/how-american-politics-went-insane/485570/)** > > Republicans and Democrats of 2016 have neither intelligible boundaries nor enforceable norms. As a result, renegade political behavior pays. \*assuming we’re focusing on people who positively support him, though if he wins the margin will probably be an another 1% or so of ‘both are terrible but Hillary is worse’ type voters coming over to Trump from Hillary, undecided or Johnson/Stein, though probably also perhaps combined with better than expected turnout from actual pro-Trumps. _If_, but anyway whoever wins will do it mostly with votes of people skeptical of them. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/26 "2016-09-21T17:16:51Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > It’s fair to be skeptical of any short explanation, but OTOH I don’t see any basis in the statement you’re answering or the campaign itself to say Trump supporters\* want to end Social Security or close down the Coast Guard. You don’t see it for the very good reason that I wasn’t arguing it. > [@Corry\_El](#): > > … Trump’s supporters are rightist populists. They want simple solutions that serve them and the community as they conceive of it, where the whole ‘racist’ thing tends to enter in, but I really think that’s a better slogan for getting Clinton voters to the polls than actually understanding what Trump’s appeal is about. … That works for me. Recall that I was replying to this: > [@Velocity](#): > > … They want to smash the “same old” and have something radically different for once. The pieces from the wreckage can be picked up and sorted out later. … The rationale for supporting Trump advanced here was that it’s NOT racism, it’s a desire to smash up the existing government and sort out the wreckage later–and I expressed skepticism that this is actually the case. Sure, some Trump voters don’t realize that smashing up the federal government will affect their lives in ways they won’t like (no Social Security or National Guard checks, bridges and roads failing, food from the grocery store laced with listeria and botulism due to no inspection, etc.). _Some_ are that ignorant. But it seems unlikely that _every_ Trump supporter could be. It’s all about thrashing about for some excuse for voting for Trump that will disguise the attraction to his bigotry and the wish to see that bigotry codified institutionally–to have the black guy at work bow his head when you enter the room and to be able to get the Latino store clerk fired because ‘he was disrespectful to me’ and to do whatever you like to female colleagues because they no longer have any remedy in law. There are a lot of Trump fans looking forward to that. They just don’t want to admit it openly, because, _lame-and-pathetic_. ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/27 "2016-09-21T17:33:47Z")
You must spend a lot of time thinking about racism. You must be an older generation. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/28 "2016-09-21T17:41:04Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > You must spend a lot of time thinking about racism. You must be an older generation. It beats pretending it doesn’t exist. ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/29 "2016-09-21T17:41:51Z")
It exists with the older folks. Millennials are changing all that. Thank you for your contributions. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/30 "2016-09-21T17:46:21Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > It exists with the older folks. Millennials are changing all that. Thank you for your contributions. Millennials are just as capable of bigotry as any other generation, and are no better at hiding it. One advantage some of us older folk have is the ability, gained through years of experience, of recognizing that brand of hatred when we see it. ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/31 "2016-09-21T17:48:26Z")
This generation has way less hate and bigotry. You recognize it, because you know it. Experience. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/32 "2016-09-21T17:54:02Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > This generation has way less hate and bigotry. You recognize it, because you know it. Experience. I’m hopeful that this is true. But the fact that Trump supporters (in NC, at least) have a [higher opinion of David Duke than of Hillary Clinton](http://www.indyweek.com/news/archives/2016/09/21/poll-nc-trump-voters-like-former-kkk-imperial-wizard-david-duke-more-than-hillary-definitely-not-deplorable) by a margin of 30-23 is another demonstration that racism, or at the very least tolerance for racism, is one of the defining factors of Trump’s support at large. ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/33 "2016-09-21T18:05:29Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m hopeful that this is true. But the fact that Trump supporters (in NC, at least) have a [higher opinion of David Duke than of Hillary Clinton](http://www.indyweek.com/news/archives/2016/09/21/poll-nc-trump-voters-like-former-kkk-imperial-wizard-david-duke-more-than-hillary-definitely-not-deplorable) by a margin of 30-23 is another demonstration that racism, or at the very least tolerance for racism, is one of the defining factors of Trump’s support at large. I think that it is true! I hold myself and others accountable as much as I can and being a racist is a horrible thing. I don’t think that choosing David Duke over Hillary Clinton means that Trump supporters are racist. I think it means Hillary is so horrible, people would choose David Duke over her. Personally I denounce the shit out of David Duke. He is from a horrible remnant of history and I wouldn’t care if he fell down dead. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/34 "2016-09-21T18:09:08Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > I think that it is true! I hold myself and others accountable as much as I can and being a racist is a horrible thing. I don’t think that choosing David Duke over Hillary Clinton means that Trump supporters are racist. I think it means Hillary is so horrible, people would choose David Duke over her. Personally I denounce the shit out of David Duke. He is from a horrible remnant of history and I wouldn’t care if he fell down dead. It’s a sign that David Duke isn’t anathema to many of these Trump supporters (at least 30% in NC), which he should be. If corruption and dishonesty (assuming those are the negative characteristics they assign to Hillary) are considered worse than white supremacism, then that’s a serious problem and reflects poorly on them. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/35 "2016-09-21T18:12:07Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > I think that it is true! I hold myself and others accountable as much as I can and being a racist is a horrible thing. I don’t think that choosing David Duke over Hillary Clinton means that Trump supporters are racist. I think it means Hillary is so horrible, people would choose David Duke over her. Personally I denounce the shit out of David Duke. He is from a horrible remnant of history and I wouldn’t care if he fell down dead. Wait a fucking minute! You have posted at various times that you were on the fence when it came to Clinton vs. Trump, but that our badmouthing Trump somehow pushed you into reluctantly supporting Trump. _Now_ you are saying that Clinton is much worse than David Duke, who you wish would drop dead. Can you see how that might lead one to believe that you have been solidly in Trump’s camp since you got here? ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/36 "2016-09-21T18:29:32Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Wait a fucking minute! You have posted at various times that you were on the fence when it came to Clinton vs. Trump, but that our badmouthing Trump somehow pushed you into reluctantly supporting Trump. _Now_ you are saying that Clinton is much worse than David Duke, who you wish would drop dead. Can you see how that might lead one to believe that you have been solidly in Trump’s camp since you got here? I didn’t say that’s what I thought. Read before typing. ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/37 "2016-09-21T18:32:32Z")
Also, Hillary spoke highly of Senator Robert Byrd. That dude was in the KKK and very racist as well. Obama was a part of that racist church. Everyone’s connected somewhere. It is a sign of that era. Older generations were very connected to the racial institutions. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/38 "2016-09-21T18:41:49Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > Also, Hillary spoke highly of Senator Robert Byrd. That dude was in the KKK and very racist as well. Obama was a part of that racist church. Everyone’s connected somewhere. It is a sign of that era. Older generations were very connected to the racial institutions. Robert Byrd renounced his KKK past many years ago, quite vociferously, and heavily criticized the KKK from then on. Reformed racists should be welcomed with open arms, to encourage other racists to reform their beliefs. That’s extremely different from Duke, who regularly makes white supremacist statements in the present, and Trump, who has retweeted and repeated things from white supremacists along with his racist birtherism and criticism of a judge based on his ethnicity. And the Obama’s church criticism is just silly. ---
**Author:** ![TheStake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecae2f/32.png) [@TheStake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheStake)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/39 "2016-09-21T18:48:23Z")
Touche. Although not about the church thing. That church spreads hatred. ---
**Author:** ![theR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/977dab/32.png) [@theR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/theR)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/40 "2016-09-21T18:48:49Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > It exists with the older folks. Millennials are changing all that. Thank you for your contributions. [Millenials Are Just as Racist as Their Parents](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/06/23/millennials-are-just-as-racist-as-their-parents/) Too be fair, polling shows that “they are not much different” and might be marginally less racist by some measures rather than exactly as racist It definitely does not agree with your theory. Largely, Millenials, Gen X, and Baby Boomers are similar while the Silent Generation was much more racist, so Boomers actually have the biggest departure from the previous generation. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307.md?page=3)