# Trump's Promises & What His Fans Expect **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 18, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307 "2016-09-18T22:02:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/41 "2016-09-21T18:56:58Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > Touche. Although not about the church thing. That church spreads hatred. The only hateful thing I know of from Wright is saying something anti-semitic, which he apologized for. ---
**Author:** ![drad\_dog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/42 "2016-09-21T21:03:23Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > I think that it is true! I hold myself and others accountable as much as I can and being a racist is a horrible thing. I don’t think that choosing David Duke over Hillary Clinton means that Trump supporters are racist. I think it means Hillary is so horrible, people would choose David Duke over her. Personally I denounce the shit out of David Duke. He is from a horrible remnant of history and I wouldn’t care if he fell down dead. Worse than David Duke? How do you imagine Hillary could be that bad? Because she’s been relentlessly publicly badmouthed? Each thing about her no matter the magnitude, is amplified and held up forever like a glistening diamond, whereas Donald, for instance, goes from one horror to the next without any normal consequences or conscience seemingly. There’s got to be more to this than what you are saying. ---
**Author:** ![Corry\_El](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@Corry\_El](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corry_El)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/43 "2016-09-21T21:10:15Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > 1. You don’t see it for the very good reason that I wasn’t arguing it. > [other poster had said] > “The rationale for supporting Trump advanced here was that it’s NOT racism, it’s a desire to smash up the existing government and sort out the wreckage later” > > –and I expressed skepticism that this is actually the case. Sure, some Trump voters don’t realize that smashing up the federal government will affect their lives in ways they won’t like (no Social Security or National Guard checks, bridges and roads failing, food from the grocery store laced with listeria and botulism due to no inspection, etc.). > > 1. It’s all about thrashing about for some excuse for voting for Trump that will disguise the attraction to his bigotry and the wish to see that bigotry codified institutionally–to have the black guy at work bow his head when you enter the room and to be able to get the Latino store clerk fired because ‘he was disrespectful to me’ and to do whatever you like to female colleagues because they no longer have any remedy in law. 1. You seem to say you weren’t arguing that Trumpists want smaller govt, even to some impractical degree (as Tea Party’iers were often accused of), but then reiterate the exact same inference from the previous posters’ statement, but they said nothing about abolishing Social Security, the USCG, or anything like that. That’s _your_ inference, the previous poster never defined ‘smash’ as downsize or disrupt govt functions. And it’s a basically mistaken inference IMO with due respect. The ‘system’ Trumpists want to ‘smash’ is the system of ‘self dealing establishment politicians’ in favor of some leader(s) who empathize with them and their view of society, and will just implement the simple solutions they believe exist which the ‘politicians’ could do if they weren’t corrupt and self-dealing: The concept of ‘politophobes’. But the politiphobe wants simple solutions for the ‘nation’ or ‘people’ as _they_ see it, so Bernie-ite politophobes reasonably protest at being lumped in with Trumpist ones, and vice versa. But there is a common thread of ‘corrupt system’. And while the perspective of the two is importantly different, it’s simply not bigger v smaller govt. That might in theory have been the Tea Party/OWS conflict, but Trumpism is different. And what else is to not send SS checks or have a USCG than radically smaller govt? That’s just not the hot button of Trumpists. One of Trump’s important distinctions v other GOP’ers is saying SS/Medicare can carry on without (increase reducing) reform. And that’s a big exception all by itself, given how central those programs are to the future fiscal problem. 1. Again, rightist politophobes such as Trumpists, want empathetic non-self interested decision makers to implement the simple solutions (they believe exist) that the corrupt politicians won’t. But ‘empathy’ with them, the nation as they see it. That’s where the racial angle has some validity other than at the margins. But your characterization is a preposterous caricature IMO. As you said ‘works for you’ to exaggerate this way for campaigning purposes, but seems that’s all you’re doing. One of the Trumpists’ key simple solutions is to enforce immigration laws. Let’s back up and be fair. There are laws on the books saying you can’t come into the US without certain permissions/documents. The general idea is that if you nonetheless do, you get kicked out. What virtually all Trumpists are saying (much less debatable than claiming they all want black people to bow to them 🙂 is enforce those laws. Because in their view the country is changing too rapidly otherwise, and they believe they have a right to a voice in that…which is implicitly accepted across the whole elected political spectrum. Does Clinton say the US electorate has no _right_ to set immigration policy because it’s inherently ‘racist’ to do so? No, only quite extreme people say that, and she’s not. Now, do the Trumpists have a realistic view of this issue? Not IMO. Could their view could attacked on an internationalist sort of moral basis (as even a conservative Catholic or perhaps Protestant might)? Yes IMO. But it’s again not serious IMO, certainly not productive, to equate wanting to keep your country the way it is wrt to foreign people coming in, ‘racism’, if that’s meant to say the person is a moral reprobate and their view hence categorically invalid. Maybe you’re not interested in understanding the viewpoint of political opponents. Many people are not, no law says you have to be, but you’re not throwing any light on it with this recent post IMO (maybe I’m not either, but you’re definitely not). ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2016, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/44 "2016-09-21T21:14:23Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > It exists with the older folks. Millennials are changing all that. Thank you for your contributions. Yeah, no. Millenials are the most enlightened, least racist, least homophobic generation. That doesn’t mean there are no new racists. That doesn’t mean you can’t find bigoted little shits like Dylan Roof. And no offense, but from my experience, Trump supporters tend to be about as good at spotting racism as I am at turning down casual sex from busty porn stars. > [@TheStake](#): > > Also, Hillary spoke highly of Senator Robert Byrd. That dude was in the KKK and very racist as well. Obama was a part of that racist church. Everyone’s connected somewhere. It is a sign of that era. Older generations were very connected to the racial institutions. Y’know, when Robert Byrd died, the NAACP put out a press release mourning his passing, where they described him [in such terms](http://www.naacp.org/press/entry/naacp-mourns-the-passing-of-u.s.-senator-robert-byrd/): “Senator Byrd reflects the transformative power of this nation,” stated NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous. "Senator Byrd went from being an active member of the KKK to a being a stalwart supporter of the Civil Rights Act, the Voting Rights Act and many other pieces of seminal legislation that advanced the civil rights and liberties of our country. Now, far from me to imply that you missed something, but the NAACP typically doesn’t praise out and proud racists. Byrd was a member of the KKK, yeah. You know what happened in the 60-odd years between then and his death? _He changed his mind_. Let me know when David Duke renounces the KKK and white supremacism, will you? Because until then, you’re saying that Clinton’s crimes (which you haven’t even articulated, and which I can _guarantee_ you are overblown to an almost comical degree) are worse than being an explicit and proud white supremacist. And that is _fucked up_. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/45 "2016-09-22T19:28:38Z")
> [@Corry\_El](#): > > 1. You seem to say you weren’t arguing that Trumpists want smaller govt, even to some impractical degree (as Tea Party’iers were often accused of), but then reiterate the exact same inference from the previous posters’ statement, but they said nothing about abolishing Social Security, the USCG, or anything like that. That’s _your_ inference, the previous poster never defined ‘smash’ as downsize or disrupt govt functions. This seems a very odd interpretation of what the poster said. Here it is: > [@Velocity](#): > > What they want is to take a sledgehammer to Washington DC and smash the establishment. They want upheaval of the status quo. … They want to smash the “same old” and have something radically different for once. The pieces from the wreckage can be picked up and sorted out later. > … So to you, this means _'don’t disrupt government functions_’ …??? > [@Corry\_El](#): > > ``` > ... The 'system' Trumpists want to 'smash' is the system of 'self dealing establishment politicians' in favor of some leader(s) who empathize with them and their view of society, and will just implement the simple solutions they believe exist which the 'politicians' could do if they weren't corrupt and self-dealing: ... > > ``` My advice to Trump supporters: it’s really a mistake to use the phrase “self-dealing”…really, really a mistake. > [@](#): > > The Washington Post has been doing some digging into the Trump Foundation, the charity Donald Trump set up back in 1987. According to the paper, tax returns and court documents Trump has used more than $250,000 of the foundation’s money to settle legal disputes involving his businesses, a practice that could constitute what’s known as self dealing. … Self-dealing is “doing something that’s going to benefit yourself, when you’re supposed to be acting as a fiduciary for another” … [Here's the deal with Donald Trump and self dealing - Marketplace](http://www.marketplace.org/2016/09/21/world/heres-deal-donald-trump-and-self-dealing) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/46 "2016-09-22T20:04:54Z")
As a matter of cognitive hygiene, I try not to weasel-think, its fosters bad habits. But I _suppose_ that if a charity’s namesake is sued, the resulting publicity would affects its donations base. Hence, it might be prudent for said charity to try to clear its namesake. But TG, IANAL. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/47 "2016-09-22T20:12:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > … Hence, it might be prudent for said charity to try to clear its namesake. … Bit of a sidetrack, but: as always with Trump, his attacks on others stem from his own self-perceptions (i.e., projection). Remember when Trump was all ‘Hillary _used the State Department as her own personal hedge fund! The Clintons used their foundation as their own personal piggy bank!_’ Etc. Yeah. He knows from using a foundation as one’s ‘own personal’ etc. No wonder it kept springing to his mind. ---
**Author:** ![quimper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7c8e57/32.png) [@quimper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/quimper)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/48 "2016-09-22T21:26:33Z")
[“Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it.”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_lie) ---
**Author:** ![DonLogan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@DonLogan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DonLogan)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/49 "2016-09-22T21:59:56Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > This is Trump’s pledge to his supporters: If you are a white person of a certain degree of personal insecurity, the idea that those “below” you in rank (the black, the Hispanic, the Muslim, the gay, the female, etc.) will have to bow their heads to you when you enter a room, must be irresistible. Trump will make those people _official_ Second Class Citizens—with the “C” next to names, the “extreme vetting,” the deportation forces, the roll-back of sex-discrimination laws and women’s health care, and all the rest of the measures he’s promised so far. > > The promises about high-paying factories and Wall and other improvements requiring massive spending while government revenues are slashed, may fool a small fraction of Trump supporters. But the promise of being able to expect your _officially_-designated “inferiors” to respectfully step aside for you, bowing and apologizing, is a potent motivator. It’s the most naked appeal to ego any politician has ever made: “you will be a little king in your own world as long as you make me king over the USA.” That’s powerful stuff–powerful enough to bring Trump’s voters to the polls with _rabid_ enthusiasm. > > Hillary Clinton cannot make an equivalent promise. All she can do is try to expose the game. > (Credit to MSNBC contributor Touré Neblett, whose remarks on yesterday’s _AM Joy_ got me started on this line of thought.) Yeah, I think this is pretty close to the Trump base voter fantasy. I think they fall asleep and dream of every school bus in the US being commandeered into service and a 100 mile long convoy passing through a gate in the wall with [insert bullshit country patriotic song here] playing. And when the last empty bus passes back through the gate and it slams shut, they walk towards the sun as it sets behind the newly-reopened Carrier plant. I’m surprised Trump hasn’t done the “make English the official language” thing, maybe I just missed it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/50 "2016-09-22T22:10:26Z")
> [@DonLogan](#): > > I’m surprised Trump hasn’t done the “make English the official language” thing, maybe I just missed it. [Donald Trump: “While We’re in This Nation, We Should Be Speaking English”](http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/donald-trump-speak-english-spanish-820215) ETA: It was during the time he was trash-talking Jeb Bush ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2016, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307/51 "2016-09-22T22:36:35Z")
> [@TheStake](#): > > It exists with the older folks. Millennials are changing all that. Thank you for your contributions. Thanks for bringing the cake. At least it has frosting like a cake… but it smells like a plumbing stone. We’re not hungry, by the way, but don’t let that stop you. Dig Right In…! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-promises-what-his-fans-expect/766307.md?page=2)