# Trump's religious pandering **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 1, 2020, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885 "2020-06-01T23:55:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/81 "2020-06-04T05:12:10Z")
The USPP said that no teargas was used, by them or anyone else, in Lafayette. They’re not partisan hacks. I’m sure most of them served during the previous administration. The “teargas” meme is a LIE. And yet, people are repeating the lie. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/82 "2020-06-04T05:12:33Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Should the news be reporting the actual facts? Should you be avoiding the question? ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/83 "2020-06-04T05:17:18Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The USPP said that no teargas was used, by them or anyone else, in Lafayette. > > They’re not partisan hacks. I’m sure most of them served during the previous administration. > > The “teargas” meme is a LIE. > > And yet, people are repeating the lie. Wait…just because they denied it, yet there are victims and eyewitnesses, everyone BUT the people denying it are lying? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/84 "2020-06-04T05:20:55Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The USPP said that no teargas was used, by them or anyone else, in Lafayette. They are lying by omission, it is that simple. their cover is just how the things are labeled. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > They’re not partisan hacks. I’m sure most of them served during the previous administration. Again, just a fig leaf. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The “teargas” meme is a LIE. As it was pointed before, gas that has the same results as tear gas was used. the lie is coming from the authorities and the denial has to be harped so as to not deal with the real bad thing that took place, the administration is ignoring their constitutional duty of preserving, protecting and defending the Constitution of the United States. > [@D\_Anconia](#): > > And yet, people are repeating the lie. Reported. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/85 "2020-06-04T05:23:02Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The USPP said that no teargas was used, by them or anyone else, in Lafayette. > > They’re not partisan hacks. I’m sure most of them served during the previous administration. > > The “teargas” meme is a LIE. > > And yet, people are repeating the lie. Just to be clear, I’m not calling posters liars, I was referring to pundits in the media. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/86 "2020-06-04T05:25:04Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > They are lying by omission, it is that simple. their cover is just how the things are labeled. What reason would the USPP have to lie? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/87 "2020-06-04T05:38:34Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Just to be clear, I’m not calling posters liars, I was referring to pundits in the media. Unfortunately I did not pointed at just pundits: This was linked at in the Forbes article: > **[CDC | Fact Sheet: Facts About Riot Control Agents](https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/riotcontrol/factsheet.asp)** > > Information on terrorism and public health. Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). To expand more here is USA Today: > **[Tear gas vs. pepper spray. Debate over methods used to clear Lafayette Square...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/03/floyd-protests-tear-gas-used-clear-park-trumps-walk/3128855001/)** > > A debate over use of force in Lafayette Square includes whether police deployed tear gas to remove peaceful protesters for Trump's walk to a church. > [@](#): > > The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggests that “tear gas” and “riot control agents” are terms that can be used interchangeably. On its website, the agency also states that “pepper spray” is a “riot control agent.” > > “Riot control agents (sometimes referred to as ‘tear gas’) are chemical compounds that temporarily make people unable to function by causing irritation to the eyes, mouth, throat, lungs, and skin,” the CDC’s website reads, mentioning pepper spray specifically. > > But others point to a technical distinction between the two. Pepper spray is a natural extract from pepper plants. Tear gas is generally what’s used to describe a man-made chemical, and is often known to law enforcement as CS gas. > > “Some people do use these terms interchangeably, but they are different products,” said Dr. Kelly Johnson-Arbor, co-medical director of the National Capital Poison Center. > > With that said, Johnson-Arbor said the distinction is somewhat limited in practice. The two products cause similar symptoms. Both are chemical irritants that can causing tearing, coughing and sometimes vomiting. Those symptoms were reported from protesters who were cleared from the park on Monday. > > Johnson-Arbor said she probably would be unable to tell the difference if one or the other was used on her. > > “In terms of what they do clinically, they do many of the same things,” she said. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 5:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/88 "2020-06-04T05:41:57Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Just to be clear, I’m not calling posters liars, I was referring to pundits in the media. Unfortunately for you I did not point at just pundits: This was linked at in the Forbes article: > **[CDC | Fact Sheet: Facts About Riot Control Agents](https://emergency.cdc.gov/agent/riotcontrol/factsheet.asp)** > > Information on terrorism and public health. Provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). To expand more here is USA Today: > **[Tear gas vs. pepper spray. Debate over methods used to clear Lafayette Square...](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/06/03/floyd-protests-tear-gas-used-clear-park-trumps-walk/3128855001/)** > > A debate over use of force in Lafayette Square includes whether police deployed tear gas to remove peaceful protesters for Trump's walk to a church. > [@](#): > > The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention suggests that “tear gas” and “riot control agents” are terms that can be used interchangeably. On its website, the agency also states that “pepper spray” is a “riot control agent.” > > “Riot control agents (sometimes referred to as ‘tear gas’) are chemical compounds that temporarily make people unable to function by causing irritation to the eyes, mouth, throat, lungs, and skin,” the CDC’s website reads, mentioning pepper spray specifically. > > But others point to a technical distinction between the two. Pepper spray is a natural extract from pepper plants. Tear gas is generally what’s used to describe a man-made chemical, and is often known to law enforcement as CS gas. > > “Some people do use these terms interchangeably, but they are different products,” said Dr. Kelly Johnson-Arbor, co-medical director of the National Capital Poison Center. > > With that said, Johnson-Arbor said the distinction is somewhat limited in practice. The two products cause similar symptoms. Both are chemical irritants that can causing tearing, coughing and sometimes vomiting. Those symptoms were reported from protesters who were cleared from the park on Monday. > > Johnson-Arbor said she probably would be unable to tell the difference if one or the other was used on her. > > “In terms of what they do clinically, they do many of the same things,” she said. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/89 "2020-06-04T05:55:59Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What reason would the USPP have to lie? Just a technicality, but unlike the memes this was the worst kind of a technically correct statement I have seen. (And even the meme was a parody of how bureaucracies do lie. [https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/48a9bw/why\_is\_technically\_correct\_the\_best\_kind\_of/](https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/48a9bw/why_is_technically_correct_the_best_kind_of/) > [@](#): > > To further explain (and kill) the joke, the quote is from the head of bureaucracy, so “technically correct” is the best kind of correct because it’s following the (obscure) rules, even if it bears little resemblance to what would be “right” in a given situation. And so what I point out is why in the end is a lie by omission, OC gas is used as an alternative to old fashion tear gas, with very similar results. \*\*It is a Riot Control Agent that was used not to stop a riot, but to remove the innocent and the religious people that had the right to stay in the premises. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/90 "2020-06-04T07:01:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > And so what I point out is why in the end is a lie by omission, OC gas is used as an alternative to old fashion tear gas, with very similar results. Correct. For those not in the know, “OC gas” and the common “tear gas” are different things chemically, but have the same effect: extreme pain in the eyes, and respiratory difficulty. “Tear gas” is commonly mace (there are different kinds chemically, but “mace” is a nice catchall term) in gas form, and “OC gas” is pepper spray in gas form. I’m no physician or chemist, but from what I’ve learned about these substances, Dr. Kelly Johnson-Arbor, whose remarks **GIGObuster** posted and linked upthread, is absolutely correct: “Johnson-Arbor said she probably would be unable to tell the difference if one or the other was used on her.” I had to learn a little about OC (in case you’re interested, that stands for _oleoresin capsicum_) spray when I interviewed clients at the local jail. Some were in for violent offenses, and in such cases, were often handcuffed, with an officer standing outside the door. As was the inmates’s right, we were discussing his legal matters in private with the door closed, but if things went wrong, I was to hit the big red panic button on the wall, and then the floor, in that order. The officers explained that they would come in with OC spray, and that I needed to protect my eyes and nose with my arms, while I hunkered down on the floor. They explained that it had the same effect as what is commonly known as tear gas, but that they would still have to decontaminate me later. Thankfully, nothing of the sort ever happened. If the protesters in Washington were not hit with what is commonly known as “tear gas,” which can be made chemically; but instead, hit with with OC gas, which is derived from common hot peppers of the genus _Capsicum_; then since both substances have the same effect, which has been attested to by Dr. Johnson-Arbor, I’d conclude that chemistry and sources and derivations don’t matter: the protesters were tear-gassed. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/91 "2020-06-04T12:11:45Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > The USPP said that no teargas was used, by them or anyone else, in Lafayette. > > They’re not partisan hacks. I’m sure most of them served during the previous administration. > > The “teargas” meme is a LIE. > > And yet, people are repeating the lie. Say for a moment this is a distinction with a difference and the media incorrectly or deliberately used the wrong terminology. What moral victory do you claim and celebrate given that the resulting actions, as ordered by the Trump Administration, were to forcibly evict a peaceful protest in the interest of a banana-republic-like photo op? Would you also insist on making a “factual” distinction on the composition of the batons used to beat protesters if the reports said wood but in fact they were composite material? Is there no self-reflective part of you that recognizes your argument to be a trifling distraction from the far larger, far more important conversation? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/92 "2020-06-04T12:15:08Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Say for a moment this is a distinction with a difference and the media incorrectly or deliberately used the wrong terminology. What moral victory do you claim and celebrate given that the resulting actions, as ordered by the Trump Administration, were to forcibly evict a peaceful protest in the interest of a banana-republic-like photo op? Would you also insist on making a “factual” distinction on the composition of the batons used to beat protesters if the reports said wood but in fact they were composite material? > > Is there no self-reflective part of you that recognizes\*\* your argument to be a trifling distraction from the far larger, far more important conversation?\*\* That’s the whole intent. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/93 "2020-06-04T12:23:27Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > That’s the whole intent. That’s **D’Anconia** ’s entire argument (and posting history, for that matter) laid bare. He should reflect on that. Or at minimum be painfully aware that everyone else sees it for what it is. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/94 "2020-06-04T12:49:58Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > What reason would the USPP have to lie? They lied because they fucked up and it looks terrible that they used tear gas on priests in order to get a photo op for the president. They also lied when they said the crowd was violent. Here’s the definition of tear gas: > **[Definition of TEAR GAS](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/teargas)** > > a solid, liquid, or gaseous substance that on dispersion in the atmosphere irritates mucous membranes resulting especially in blinding of the eyes with tears and that is used chiefly (as by the police and the military) to disperse large crowds of... The first definition is the verb (“to use tear gas on”). The second definition is: > [@](#): > > a solid, liquid, or gaseous substance that on dispersion in the atmosphere irritates mucous membranes resulting especially in blinding of the eyes with tears and is used chiefly in dispelling mobs Please stop spreading the lie that tear gas wasn’t used. I’m not saying you’re lying, I’m saying you’ve been lied to and are spreading that misinformation because you didn’t realize it. Thanks. I expect a reply to this, probably an apology of some sort. Back to the OP, this photo op seems to have really shook up the establishment. I don’t understand why this particular outrage is what’s doing it (I didn’t understand why the Ukraine call in particular was the one that precipitated the impeachment), but maybe this will turn the tide when it comes to the religious right. Trump trampled on the First Amendment right to assembly, and shat on the establishment clause (although didn’t violate it, I guess) in order to get a stupid picture of himself holding a bible like it’s some icky thing he found on the street. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/95 "2020-06-04T13:36:22Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I expect a reply to this, probably an apology of some sort. What if he suddenly gets very busy and forgets to return? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/96 "2020-06-04T14:47:13Z")
As noted the real discussion should be about how this pandering should be seen as the reprehensible thing it was, and this here is not just coming from former members of the administration like Mattis, here is Mike Mullen, Seventeenth chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff : > **[I Cannot Remain Silent](https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/american-cities-are-not-battlespaces/612553/)** > > Our fellow citizens are not the enemy, and must never become so. > [@](#): > > It sickened me yesterday to see security personnel—including members of the National Guard—forcibly and violently clear a path through Lafayette Square to accommodate the president’s visit outside St. John’s Church. I have to date been reticent to speak out on issues surrounding President Trump’s leadership, but we are at an inflection point, and the events of the past few weeks have made it impossible to remain silent. > > Whatever Trump’s goal in conducting his visit, he laid bare his disdain for the rights of peaceful protest in this country, gave succor to the leaders of other countries who take comfort in our domestic strife, and risked further politicizing the men and women of our armed forces. > > There was little good in the stunt. > > While no one should ever condone the violence, vandalism, and looting that has exploded across our city streets, neither should anyone lose sight of the larger and deeper concerns about institutional racism that have ignited this rage. > > As a white man, I cannot claim perfect understanding of the fear and anger that African Americans feel today. But as someone who has been around for a while, I know enough—and I’ve seen enough—to understand that those feelings are real and that they are all too painfully founded. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/97 "2020-06-04T15:28:29Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > What if he suddenly gets very busy and forgets to return? I would, indeed, be shocked by that development. I’d probably use the following emoji: :eek: ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/98 "2020-06-04T19:31:07Z")
It’s not getting as much notice because no peaceful protesters were forcibly dispersed, but Trump (plus Melania) made an equally awkward, equally blatant pandering [visit to a Catholic shrine to Pope John Paul II.](https://twitter.com/TeamTrump/status/1267872479453855744) I guess he wanted to make sure that Catholics didn’t feel left out. The visit is mostly being noticed for Melania’s feeble attempt to smile on command. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/99 "2020-06-04T19:57:15Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > It’s not getting as much notice because no peaceful protesters were forcibly dispersed, but Trump (plus Melania) made an equally awkward, equally blatant pandering [visit to a Catholic shrine to Pope John Paul II.](https://twitter.com/TeamTrump/status/1267872479453855744) I guess he wanted to make sure that Catholics didn’t feel left out. > > The visit is mostly being noticed for Melania’s feeble attempt to smile on command. Maybe he should have offered her a nummy treat. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2020, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885/100 "2020-06-04T23:05:40Z")
[The ACLU of the District of Columbia, along with the Washington Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights and Urban Affairs, Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, and the law firm of Arnold & Porter, filed a lawsuit [today] in US District Court for the District of Columbia on behalf of Black Lives Matter DC and several protesters against President Trump, Attorney General William Barr, Secretary of Defense Mark Esper, and other officials over the assault Barr ordered June 1 on protesters outside Lafayette Square in DC so Trump could execute a photo op in front of St. John’s Episcopal Church.](https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/06/04/aclu-sues-trump-and-barr-over-assault-on-lafayette-square-protesters/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-religious-pandering/854885.md?page=6)