# Trump's Republican primary campaign **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 3, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828 "2015-09-03T18:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 170
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3385 "2016-04-10T07:15:48Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > So let me get this straight…are you seriously claiming that you believe _anyone_ can pay off $19T in debt (plus interest) in 8 years? No, I just see no reason to legitimatize a hack like Ben Stein in doing so. It’d be like me quoting Josef Stalin to condemn the Nazis. > [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > I don’t see it. > > Following a Trump loss, a guy who tries to duplicate his act will be called out on it; it’ll be _obvious_, and he’ll get hit with quick and easy comparisons to the laughingstock he’s clearly trying to follow in the footsteps of – the difference being, _nobody’s_ going to make the mistake they made this time, of underestimating a ‘Trump’ type early on; that worked once, so I can’t imagine it working again “in a few years”. > > They’re going to come after him hard and fast from Day One; from _before_ Day One. They’ll spend much of their efforts taking down whoever comes closest to bearing a passing _resemblance_ to Trump – and spending much of what’s left trying to paint themselves as the anti-Trump, to avoid being the Trump-esque target. > > Trump won’t be a model; he’ll be a cautionary tale, a boogeyman: something you try to prove you’re _not,_ after someone strikes a low blow by comparing you to him. Don’t be absurd. As long as the savage war by the plutocrats who pimped out fair Columbia for Mammon continues to be waged against the [white working-class](https://www.washingtonpost.com/classic-apps/a-premature-and-unnatural-death-in-rural-oklahoma/2016/04/08/7888a74c-f079-11e5-89c3-a647fcce95e0_story.html) and indeed grows worse, there will be newer, younger, smarter, more ideological, and crueler TRUMPs waiting in the wings. Consider how the German nationalist right in the Weimar-era evolved from reactionary, pseudo-populist monarchists like Von Hugenburg to the totalitarian anti-Semitism of the National Socialists. If TRUMP falters and current trends are not at least stopped, we are going to see genuine authoritarians. Instead of a billionaire Baby Boomer celebrity with a toupee it will be a genuinely angry Iraq War veteran who realized his buddies died on the battlefield and are committing suicide from PTSD for a small cabal of foreign policy experts. Instead of trivial, bourgeois measures like deporting illegal immigrants or slapping on tariffs, he will demand real action like greasing the bayonets with the fat of the Wall Street bankers. I can easily imagine an American NKVD-recruited from her white, black, and brown sons-and the lusty sounds of Appalachia and the Bronx will mix together in rage-filled whelps as we see a “dekulakization” of American upper-middle class suburbia. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > At the distant other end, someone like **Qin** , who has (when most others his age are focused on Xbox, beer, getting laid and maybe a march or two to protest something-or-other if it’s convenient) spent untold hours constructing an elaborate fantasy-prophecy of an avenging Overman, a messianic political figure who’s going to roll in and turn the nation on its ear, and then take an unapologetic leak in the other ear. And whattaya know? Along comes Trump, just as it was foretold. Hallelujah. Okay, so he doesn’t _quite_ fit, but… the time is nigh, so he’ll have to do. I’m amused by the picture you’ve drawn of me, considering I do plenty of “normal” things as well as my political theorizing. But as I’ve said elsewhere on the forum, TRUMP isn’t even my first choice for President (considering I favour Sanders in the primaries and intend to support Clinton when she wins the Democratic nomination contest). I essentially see the Donald the same way FDR and Churchill saw the Red Army in World War II-a great colossus that beat back the initial assaults of reactionaries in the debates which were TRUMP’s Leningrad and Stalingrad before breaking the back of the neoconservative establishment by forcing Rubio and Jeb! out of the race in the Donald’s own Kursk and Operation Bagration and now is marching triumphantly on to the final target of Berlin, where Ted Cruz and the armies of pseudo-intellectual yes-men still delude themselves with a belief that a victory over the great populist forces are possible. > [@](#): > > People see in Trump exactly what they want to see. It’s _Being There_, if Chance had a hideous comb-over and logorrhea. At any rate, TRUMP has a _coherent vision_ if people would actually bother listening to or reading his past statements. Has he flip-flopped on issues? Sure, but so has virtually every politician in American history and nobody claimed Romney had no coherent ideology simply because of his numerous “evolutions”. Consider [this article](http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1987-09-24/news/8703150543_1_trump-parc-trump-tower-trump-castle) from 1987 which talks about TRUMP’s call for protecting American industry from unfair foreign competition and having American allies pay for their own defense, just as he advocates those positions now. TRUMP’s 1999 book [_America We Deserve_](http://www.dailydot.com/politics/donald-trump-the-america-we-deserve/) shows that he supported a hardline stance on illegal immigration well before the current election cycle. If this isn’t proof of a consistent political ideology of populist nationalism, I don’t know what is. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3386 "2016-04-10T08:14:13Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > At any rate, TRUMP has a _coherent vision_ if people would actually bother listening to or reading his past statements. I know that you already did this simple test and then you clarified that indeed you will not vote for Trump, but that test has to be changed a little, because Trump is not really coherent: > [@Who's the nuttiest GOP candidate?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whos-the-nuttiest-gop-candidate/749772/5): > > Ok, here is a simple test, watch this Trump Clip. > > [http://climatecrocks.com/2016/03/17/as-election-year-unfolds-climate-concern-rises/#comment-81896](http://climatecrocks.com/2016/03/17/as-election-year-unfolds-climate-concern-rises/#comment-81896) > > Read then what science and even most of the public thinks about the issue: > > [As Election Year Unfolds, Climate Concern Rises – This is Not Cool](http://climatecrocks.com/2016/03/17/as-election-year-unfolds-climate-concern-rises/) Who is being coherent? As it was pointed before the professional climate change deniers do tell us that indeed global warming is happening, it is impossible to deny thermometers (although some loopy ones do try) so they keep their justifications for inaction on controlling emissions coherent by explaining that they think that the warming will not increase more or reach the levels that most experts think it can be reached by not controlling emissions. Trump and followers in the town hall incoherently did go for the 100% denial and not the plausible talking point that more sophisticated climate change deniers use. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3387 "2016-04-10T08:22:34Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > No, I just see no reason to legitimatize a hack like Ben Stein in doing so. It’d be like me quoting Josef Stalin to condemn the Nazis. That’s the best you’ve got, huh? I do happen to like Ben Stein. However, that doesn’t mean I think of him as an expert on anything. Nevertheless, that ‘hack’ was right, now, wasn’t he? I just can’t even read any of the rest of your stuff anymore unless it’s in common English. I understand the highfalootin’ terms you use. But if you held the political wisdom of the ages I wouldn’t waste the time decoding your posts. Truth be told, it makes you look a little like you’re _trying_ to look educated and supah-genius. Try talking like normal people. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3388 "2016-04-10T11:45:14Z")
Will Trump run as an independent if he loses the Nomination? An independent run would make more sense for him than a run as GOP nominee: he could continue his madcap cheap campaign without responsibilities. As an independent, Trump would get votes from both Republicans and Democrats. He’d take more votes away from Cruz than from Hillary, but _ **still might swing the election to the GOP.** _ If he was able to win a few big states — Florida, Ohio?, Pennsylvania?? New York??? :smack: — neither Clinton nor Cruz would get 270 e.v., and the election would be decided, for Cruz, in the House. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3389 "2016-04-10T12:53:56Z")
Trump (as an “Independent” or otherwise) wouldn’t win New York even if he gave out bagels and lox and floppy pizza and … uh … Genessee Ale to every voter. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3390 "2016-04-10T14:48:08Z")
> [@JKellyMap](#): > > Trump (as an “Independent” or otherwise) wouldn’t win New York even if he gave out bagels and lox and floppy pizza and … uh … Genessee Ale to every voter. Mickey’s Big Mouth would probably be more in keeping symbolically. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3391 "2016-04-10T18:42:56Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > That was last year, when more look at the plans Trump has the American public is less convinced, of course it is the Republicans that are still for it, no matter how expensive it is getting. > > [Poll: 60 Percent Of Americans Don’t Want Donald Trump’s Wall | The Daily Caller](http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/02/poll-60-percent-of-americans-dont-want-donald-trumps-wall/) > > That 38% of support looks a lot like the support Trump is getting in the matching polls against the Democratic candidates. > > The very next day the polls showed otherwise at CBS. > > [http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/cbs-poll-muslims-216670](http://www.politico.com/story/2015/12/cbs-poll-muslims-216670) > > The most recent polls show that just about 50% of the American people agree with what Trump said, the question BTW is: “a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States until our country’s representatives can figure out what is going on,” but IMHO how Trump said it amounts to what it is a push poll. I am not saying that Trump’s positions are solidly centrist. Just closer to the center than the average establishment politician. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3392 "2016-04-10T18:44:25Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I as referring there to what Hague said; followed to what the rapper did say. **Hank** here is trying to make it sound as if both Hague and the rapper are on the same side Huh? Why would you say that? ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3393 "2016-04-10T19:05:55Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > thinking Trump is going to bust up big business is just stupid. Trump _is_ big business. He’s a billionaire who earned his money on the backs of the working class. He got rich in real estate and casinos and hotels, then by branding his name and licensing it out to other ventures. Trump’s number one and only care is Trump. The best defense attorneys are often former prosecutors, and the best accountants former IRS agents. > [@](#): > > She said nothing about the “best leader”. She said she wants the most transparent evil piece of shit, because at least we know he’s a piece of shit, whereas all the other politicians we seem to think aren’t pieces of shit, but they are, too, so why not get the biggest piece of shit there is. She doesn’t want a leader, she wants a mess. She said some of that, but you are reading things into what she has said that are not there. Nothing she has said implies she doesn’t want an effective leader, everything points int he other direction. She thinks that immigrants take jobs from black Americans, that immigrants “[are sucking up the state aid, and government money, space in schools, quality of life](http://www.nme.com/news/azealia-banks/88138)”, [that outsourcing to China has hurt our industrial base](https://twitter.com/AZEALIABANKS/status/628634525011062784), and that [Trump has the fortitude and the familiarity and the independence to shake up business-as-usual](https://twitter.com/AZEALIABANKS). [And she doesn’t trust](https://twitter.com/AZEALIABANKS/status/694058936098557952?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)[establishment politicians](https://twitter.com/azealiabanks/status/694059063869579264). The reasons she is voting for Trump are very similar to the reasons that motivate the rest of the Trumpists. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3394 "2016-04-10T19:25:21Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > My point is, both Sanders and Trump have legitimate appeal to poor whites. The problem Sanders faces are, first, he’s not going to win the primary and, second, he has to tie the legitimacy of his candidacy to the BLM crowd, which is immediately off-putting to poor whites. The problem Trump _presents_ (Trump not being self-aware enough to _face_ any problems) is that all of his solutions are tied up with the racist, violent, misogynistic culture the GOP has cozied up to ever since it inaugurated the Southern Strategy, and thus represents the worst aspects of nationalism, which is to say it’s _ethnic_ nationalism. > > Ethnic nationalism is a hold-over from the Old World, something which Europe has almost beaten out of itself through a series of bloody wars but which still resurfaces whenever Roma and/or Arabs dare poke their heads up. As terrible as it is in Europe, it’s even worse in the New World, where all of the currently dominant cultures are immigrant cultures, and so can only claim an ethnic nationalist heritage all the way back to Last Thursday, in a broad historical sense. Civic nationalism, the nationalism of shared values without regard for ethnicity or country of origin or anything else, is what American nationalism should be about. This is the result of an understanding of the world that has in no way digested current realities. Like, it’s at least twenty years out of date. You are projecting a racial component that doesn’t exist. There aren’t too many issues anymore that appeal to middle and lower class whites that do not also appeal to middle and lower class blacks and Hispanics. That’s what happens after fifty years of integration. Trump is not Pat Buchanan. Hell, even Pat Buchanan isn’t the Pat Buchanan that he was twenty and forty years ago, when he had leadership roles in political movements who’s constituency the above post describes. Your demand that American nationalism be entirely free of “regard for ethnicity or country of origin or anything else” leaves, without reason, no room whatsoever for multi-racial nativism. Multi-racial nativist sentiment is extremely popular among Americans. It is way less popular among establishment politicians, the media, and academia. It is this wide gulf between the views of normal Americans and their representatives that Trump recognizes and is exploiting. If it really gets rolling, the world as both the GOP and DNC know it is ended. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3395 "2016-04-10T19:32:32Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > The best defense attorneys are often former prosecutors, and the best accountants former IRS agents. Donald Trump has not retired from being a Trademark business man. He is indeed involved still into selling us something. > [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > She said some of that, but you are reading things into what she has said that are not there. Nothing she has said implies she doesn’t want an effective leader, everything points int he other direction. She thinks that immigrants take jobs from black Americans, that immigrants “[are sucking up the state aid, and government money, space in schools, quality of life](http://www.nme.com/news/azealia-banks/88138)”, [that outsourcing to China has hurt our industrial base](https://twitter.com/AZEALIABANKS/status/628634525011062784), and that [Trump has the fortitude and the familiarity and the independence to shake up business-as-usual](https://twitter.com/AZEALIABANKS). [And she doesn’t trust](https://twitter.com/AZEALIABANKS/status/694058936098557952?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw)[establishment politicians](https://twitter.com/azealiabanks/status/694059063869579264). The reasons she is voting for Trump are very similar to the reasons that motivate the rest of the Trumpists. :rolleyes: [QUOTE=Azelia Banks] “And you ALL MISSED THE POINT. I’m not supporting Trump.” Banks added, “I’m pointing out the fact that the media has been really really instrumental in helping black people forget about things and shine this all American bulls — in people’s faces.” [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Azelia Banks] Donald trump is SUCH a megalomaniac. This is about HIM. not the banks, not the church, not the people. HIM. [/quote] ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3396 "2016-04-10T19:35:37Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > Multi-racial nativist sentiment is extremely popular among Americans. It is way less popular among establishment politicians, the media, and academia. It is this wide gulf between the views of normal Americans and their representatives that Trump recognizes and is exploiting. If it really gets rolling, the world as both the GOP and DNC know it is ended. As pointed many times before, that is not working with the whole electorate, once gain you continue to look just at the popularity of that among Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3397 "2016-04-10T19:42:26Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As pointed many times before, that is not working with the whole electorate, once gain you continue to look just at the popularity of that among Republicans. It has the potential to work with the whole electorate, during this cycle and in the future, because it is a wildly popular sentiment, especially in the parts of the country other than college towns. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3398 "2016-04-10T19:56:35Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > It has the potential to work with the whole electorate, during this cycle and in the future, because it is a wildly popular sentiment, especially in the parts of the country other than college towns. Again, you have a very peculiar definition of popularity. > **[Poll: 60 Percent Of Americans Don’t Want Donald Trump’s Wall](https://dailycaller.com/2016/04/02/poll-60-percent-of-americans-dont-want-donald-trumps-wall/)** > > Extensive new Pew Research Center poll shows almost 60 percent of registered American voters oppose wall between United States and Mexico > [@](#): > > Poll: 60 Percent Of Americans Don’t Want Donald Trump’s Wall > [@](#): > > Among Democratic voters, supporters of both Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders oppose building a U.S. Mexico wall overwhelmingly. Sanders voters oppose it a bit more — 91 percent to 83 percent. > > Democratic voters also strongly support providing an avenue for amnesty for at least some illegal immigrants. By a margin of 78 percent to 17 percent — Democrats believe immigrants provide a net benefit to the United States. > > Among the poll’s many other findings: A minority of Republican voters — 38 percent — believe the party would “solidly unite” if Trump becomes the 2016 GOP nominee. A 56-percent majority of GOP voters say they believe many Republican voters would refuse to vote for Trump if he is the party’s 2016 nominee. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3399 "2016-04-10T20:36:35Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Again, you have a very peculiar definition of popularity. > > [Poll: 60 Percent Of Americans Don’t Want Donald Trump’s Wall | The Daily Caller](http://dailycaller.com/2016/04/02/poll-60-percent-of-americans-dont-want-donald-trumps-wall/) What does that prove? That’s just shows the level of support for _Trump’s_ wall. It doesn’t show the level of support for a border wall generally (which even Hillary brags about voting for). And it sure doesn’t refute the point that multi-racial nativist sentiment is very common among Americans. [Sixty-one percent of Americans agree that “continued immigration into the country jeopardizes the United States,”](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-07/americans-really-don-t-like-immigration-new-survey-finds) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3400 "2016-04-10T20:45:52Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I know that you already did this simple test and then you clarified that indeed you will not vote for Trump, but that test has to be changed a little, because Trump is not really coherent: > > Who is being coherent? As it was pointed before the professional climate change deniers do tell us that indeed global warming is happening, it is impossible to deny thermometers (although some loopy ones do try) so they keep their justifications for inaction on controlling emissions coherent by explaining that they think that the warming will not increase more or reach the levels that most experts think it can be reached by not controlling emissions. > > Trump and followers in the town hall incoherently did go for the 100% denial and not the plausible talking point that more sophisticated climate change deniers use. Again I did not say TRUMP never flip-flopped (consider how even the “respectable” GOP candidates have “evolved” their views on climate change) but merely that there was a continuity of political views even from the days of the late Cold War to the present. > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > That’s the best you’ve got, huh? I do happen to like Ben Stein. However, that doesn’t mean I think of him as an expert on anything. Nevertheless, that ‘hack’ was right, now, wasn’t he? Not really, since his ideology would worsen America’s debt even more then the Donald would. > [@](#): > > I just can’t even read any of the rest of your stuff anymore unless it’s in common English. I understand the highfalootin’ terms you use. But if you held the political wisdom of the ages I wouldn’t waste the time decoding your posts. Truth be told, it makes you look a little like you’re _trying_ to look educated and supah-genius. Try talking like normal people. I’m not using “highfalootin’ terms” as you claim, I’m just using words that are necessary if one is to discuss politics and words which anyone who reads newspapers semi-regularly would recognize. It’s like expecting someone to be able to discuss Star Wars but then complaining words like “lightsabre” or “Death Star” or “Jedi knights” are too difficult to understand. If you want to actually read verbose ideological jargon, try opening a book by Zizek or Carl Schmitt. That said, I find your sudden, newfound conversion to anti-intellectual faux-populism amusing, since it really shows the philistinism of the American bourgeoisie which makes it particularly detestable. If you are, at going to be an elite and lord over the masses at least behave like one and embrace true high culture as the European aristocrats, the Southern planters, and the Chinese mandarins of old did. But the new American elites, in their desperate attempt to keep up an appearance of “republican virtue” are instead fake cosmopolitans whose idea of culture is patronizing a few degenerate artists and attending yoga sessions, and utterly unrooted in national history and culture. It is instead, the common people of America who have faithfully maintained our traditions which moor one in a chaotic and uncertain world. Yet despite your attempt to align yourself with the “normal people”, you aspire to fashionable pseudo-feminism of the SJWs while dismissing the reality of social disaster of the American working-class in the past generation, claiming they have it better then in Bangladesh thus showing your utter disconnect from the mainstream of America. Contrary to your insinuations, “real America” are not in the upper-middle suburbs of the metropolises-they are not Westchester and Fairfax counties. Once again your posts thoroughly embodies the evils of neoliberalism in their attempt to de-ideologicize politics (a contradiction in terms if there ever was one!) and instead turn it into simply a question of personalities and “respectability” where politicians are judged not on the bases of their views but on how “serious” they seem and their “tones” so that types like Lieberman or Chafee are considered sages while populists who have a coherent _Weltanschauung_ like Sanders and TRUMP are dismissed as “extreme” or “not serious”. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3401 "2016-04-10T21:09:56Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > Again I did not say TRUMP never flip-flopped (consider how even the “respectable” GOP candidates have “evolved” their views on climate change) but merely that there was a continuity of political views even from the days of the late Cold War to the present. > > Not really, since his ideology would worsen America’s debt even more then the Donald would. > > I’m not using “highfalootin’ terms” as you claim, I’m just using words that are necessary if one is to discuss politics and words which anyone who reads newspapers semi-regularly would recognize. It’s like expecting someone to be able to discuss Star Wars but then complaining words like “lightsabre” or “Death Star” or “Jedi knights” are too difficult to understand. If you want to actually read verbose ideological jargon, try opening a book by Zizek or Carl Schmitt. That said, I find your sudden, newfound conversion to anti-intellectual faux-populism amusing, since it really shows the philistinism of the American bourgeoisie which makes it particularly detestable. If you are, at going to be an elite and lord over the masses at least behave like one and embrace true high culture as the European aristocrats, the Southern planters, and the Chinese mandarins of old did. But the new American elites, in their desperate attempt to keep up an appearance of “republican virtue” are instead fake cosmopolitans whose idea of culture is patronizing a few degenerate artists and attending yoga sessions, and utterly unrooted in national history and culture. It is instead, the common people of America who have faithfully maintained our traditions which moor one in a chaotic and uncertain world. Yet despite your attempt to align yourself with the “normal people”, you aspire to fashionable pseudo-feminism of the SJWs while dismissing the reality of social disaster of the American working-class in the past generation, claiming they have it better then in Bangladesh thus showing your utter disconnect from the mainstream of America. Contrary to your insinuations, “real America” are not in the upper-middle suburbs of the metropolises-they are not Westchester and Fairfax counties. Once again your posts thoroughly embodies the evils of neoliberalism in their attempt to de-ideologicize politics (a contradiction in terms if there ever was one!) and instead turn it into simply a question of personalities and “respectability” where politicians are judged not on the bases of their views but on how “serious” they seem and their “tones” so that types like Lieberman or Chafee are considered sages while populists who have a coherent _Weltanschauung_ like Sanders and TRUMP are dismissed as “extreme” or “not serious”. Please. When you have 90 word sentences literally chock full with jargon adjectives for the people you’re talking about, it’s gone WAY too far. Are you seriously trying to sell that that is necessary to discuss the issue that you finally get around to at the end of it? And then you go and prove my point. By the way, you really know jackshit about me, so you’d really better dial it back with your booklearned prejudgment of who you think I am and what I believe in. I’ve been an adult for quite a bit longer than you’ve been alive, and I know just a bit more about how the world really works than you do. Hint: I’m not impressed. To the rest of you, sorry, I gave it the old college try, not that I expected it to succeed. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3402 "2016-04-10T21:41:45Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Please. When you have 90 word sentences literally chock full with jargon adjectives for the people you’re talking about, it’s gone WAY too far. Are you seriously trying to sell that that is necessary to discuss the issue that you finally get around to at the end of it? > > And then you go and prove my point. Yes you could say my post just now was perhaps “excessive” but it was in reaction to your posts basically discussing politics the way people discuss celebrities rather then from any ideological lens. > [@](#): > > By the way, you really know jackshit about me, so you’d really better dial it back with your booklearned prejudgment of who you think I am and what I believe in. I’ve been an adult for quite a bit longer than you’ve been alive, and I know just a bit more about how the world really works than you do. Hint: I’m not impressed. I never said anything about "who you are and any judgement I made about your views were based on posts that you made on this subforum. And literally anybody of a certain age can say that about themselves including TRUMP supporters, orthodox Trotskyites etc. Nor was it ever my intention to “impress” anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3403 "2016-04-10T21:42:57Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > By the way, you really know jackshit about me, so you’d really better dial it back with your booklearned prejudgment of who you think I am and what I believe in. I’ve been an adult for quite a bit longer than you’ve been alive, and I know just a bit more about how the world really works than you do. You know more about how the world has worked during the time that you have presided over, which has been a period of cultural stagnation and strategic atrophy. This, against a backdrop of an accelerating degree of connectivity, and more accessible information available to more people than ever before. Something was bound to give, sooner rather than later. [Charles Stross](http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/fiction/accelerando/accelerando.html) predicted it, and it’s happening. _More riots in Barcelona, Madrid, Birmingham, and Marseilles also underline a rising problem: the social chaos caused by cheap anti-aging treatments. The zombie exterminators, a backlash of disaffected youth against the formerly graying gerontocracy of Europe, insist that people who predate the supergrid and can’t handle implants aren’t really conscious: Their ferocity is equaled only by the anger of the dynamic septuagenarians of the baby boom, their bodies partially restored to the flush of sixties youth, but their minds adrift in a slower, less contingent century. The faux-young boomers feel betrayed, forced back into the labor pool, but unable to cope with the implant-accelerated culture of the new millennium, their hard-earned experience rendered obsolete by deflationary time._ ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3404 "2016-04-10T21:57:11Z")
> [@Hank\_Beecher](#): > > What does that prove? That’s just shows the level of support for _Trump’s_ wall. It doesn’t show the level of support for a border wall generally (which even Hillary brags about voting for). And it sure doesn’t refute the point that multi-racial nativist sentiment is very common among Americans. > > [Sixty-one percent of Americans agree that “continued immigration into the country jeopardizes the United States,”](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-03-07/americans-really-don-t-like-immigration-new-survey-finds) Even Blomberg had to acknowledge that the survey was at odds with other ones. And it is becoming clear that you skipped even the rest of the quote I made it is not only the wall, Trump is not expected by even the Republicans to get the support of most Republicans in the general election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828.md?page=169) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828.md?page=171)