# Trump's Republican primary campaign **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 3, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828 "2015-09-03T18:00:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 173
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3445 "2016-04-11T21:18:38Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I agree Trump’s an excuse-making whiner. > > But you have to admit that a game where \*after \*the game is played and before the winner is announced, the referees get together to alter the rules at will and decide which scoring plays counted and which didn’t is … well … a game prone to shenanigans. > > Boxing is famously the one sport where neither the players, the coaches, the audience, the referee, nor the judges as a group know the score until after it’s over. Oddly it’s the professional sport most noted for “questionable” scoring. Nevertheless, they’re the same rules for everyone playing. The thing is, the rules changed seven months before the election, not after. Everyone involved was supposed to know how things worked. And the results are based on actual numbers, not subjective judgment. It’s not, hmm, I think the Cruz supporters were louder than the Trump supporters. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3446 "2016-04-11T21:21:45Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I agree Trump’s an excuse-making whiner. > > But you have to admit that a game where \*after \*the game is played and before the winner is announced, the referees get together to alter the rules at will and decide which scoring plays counted and which didn’t is … well … a game prone to shenanigans. Sounds like what a head of state would have to deal with on the world stage. (Or be an excuse-making whiner about. Could go either way, really.) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3447 "2016-04-11T21:31:35Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I’ll just reduce it to some questions: > > Did Adolf Hitler have a coherent ideology? > > Did Josef Stalin have a coherent ideology? > > Did Pol Pot have a coherent ideology? > > Does Ted Cruz have a coherent ideology? > > Does Donald TRUMP have a coherent ideology? Did John Locke have a coherent ideology? Did Thomas Jefferson have a coherent ideology? Did Alexander Hamilton have a coherent ideology? Did John Stuart Mill have a coherent ideology? Did Abraham Lincoln have a coherent ideology? Did Franklin D. Roosevelt have a coherent ideology? (Not quite, in his case, but more so than Trump has.) Did John Rawls have a coherent ideology? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3448 "2016-04-11T21:34:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Did Franklin D. Roosevelt have a coherent ideology? (Not quite, in his case, but more so than Trump has.) “We’re in deep shit. Get me a shovel.” ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3449 "2016-04-11T21:41:17Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Nevertheless, they’re the same rules for everyone playing. > > The thing is, the rules changed seven months before the election, not after. Everyone involved was supposed to know how things worked. And the results are based on actual numbers, not subjective judgment. It’s not, hmm, I think the Cruz supporters were louder than the Trump supporters. You may be talking about Trumps specific (and incoherent) quote above in response to some specific recent rules or delegate flail I’m not paying attention to. I’m talking about the fact that the 2016 convention’s rules do not exist at the moment, have not existed at all during the primary season, and will be invented \*ab initio \*as the convention begins and before the nominating process begins. Which is after all the campaigning and voting and vote-counting and delegate selection and … are complete. IOW, after all the scoring plays but before the winner is announced. To be sure, there’s a historical tendency for the rules this time to be minor tweaks to the rules from last time. But that’s a tendency most trustworthy when not under strain. IOW, it’s brittle. As we saw with the \*8 state majority \*rule inserted last time. And if ever there was a convention to try men’s souls and offer rewards for breaking with the old rules, this is it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3450 "2016-04-11T21:42:32Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You may be talking about Trumps specific (and incoherent) quote above in response to some specific recent rules or delegate flail I’m not paying attention to. > > I’m talking about the fact that the 2016 convention’s rules do not exist at the moment, have not existed at all during the primary season, and will be invented \*ab initio \*as the convention begins and before the nominating process begins. Which is after all the campaigning and voting and vote-counting and delegate selection and … . IOW, after all the scoring plays but before the winner is announced. > > To be sure, there’s a historical tendency for the rules this time to be minor tweaks to the rules last time. > > But that’s a tendency most trustworthy when not under strain. IOW, it’s brittle. As we saw with the 8 state majority rule inserted last time. And if ever there was a convention to try men’s souls and offer rewards for breaking with the old rules, this is it. Oh, sorry…we were just talking about the CO delegate thing. Hey that was you…you switched topics on me. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3451 "2016-04-11T21:47:06Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > I agree Trump’s an excuse-making whiner. > > But you have to admit that a game where \*after \*the game is played and before the winner is announced, the referees get together to alter the rules at will and decide which scoring plays counted and which didn’t is … well … a game prone to shenanigans. The difference being that the game doesn’t even start until after the voting is over. The voting part is really more like a pre-game show, with fight songs, titties and pom-poms. Neither has much to do with the outcome of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Hank\_Beecher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hank_beecher/32/7275_2.png) [@Hank\_Beecher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hank_Beecher)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3452 "2016-04-11T21:53:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Nothing of the kind. Economic stagnation, yes, but culture is flourishing and so is the military-industrial complex. “Denies cultural stagnation. Uses fifty year old leftist trope in next sentence.” Someone else can find the right picture to make the meme with. I think it’s a walrus or something. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3453 "2016-04-11T21:53:50Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > You may be talking about Trumps specific (and incoherent) quote above in response to some specific recent rules or delegate flail I’m not paying attention to. You mean #3444? That was a joke…FDR’s ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3454 "2016-04-11T21:56:49Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Basically, we all have to start writing like **Qin** or else admit our status as detestable bourgeoisie philistines. Pick your side quickly! > > But I do agree that Trump has a very large _Weltanschauung_. I have to admit that was pretty funny. > [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > You gotta love Trump’s 8-year-old’s logic with the delegate thing. We didn’t know the rules and weren’t prepared, so the system must be rigged. So what? It is doubtlessly true that caucuses, conventions, superdelegates, and so forth are all abridgements of Democracy and archaic relics of a more inegalitarian time. If TRUMP helps undermine this system and pushes us towards more straight-forward primaries with delegates being apportioned on the basis of the winner (or better yet get rid of delegates otherwise), he will be a progressive force in American politics in yet another way. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3455 "2016-04-11T22:02:48Z")
I see this over and over again, and I’ve been meaning to correct it, but just hadn’t gotten around to it. This is a republic and representative democracy, not a true democracy. The President Trump scenario might satisfy some anarchical impulse for you, but there is by no means any guarantee that it will change the electoral system. It’s really not worth finding out, either. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3456 "2016-04-11T22:11:10Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I see this over and over again, and I’ve been meaning to correct it, but just hadn’t gotten around to it. This is a republic and representative democracy, not a true democracy. “This is a republic not a democracy” line is used by the most reactionary and piggish Tories to oppose any attempt at majoritarian politics with archaic nonsense such as the filibuster etc. You do qualify this by noting that America is a “representative democracy” and I agree with that, which is why we need to democratize our Presidential nomination process so that our Presidential nominees are actually representative of the will of the Party voters. > [@](#): > > The President Trump scenario might satisfy some anarchical impulse for you, but there is by no means any guarantee that it will change the electoral system. It’s really not worth finding out, either. Considering how rotten America’s socioeconomic system is at its core at this point and how it has betrayed the interests of the national community, I’m willing to support anything that breaks the status quo be it TRUMP or Sanders. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3457 "2016-04-11T22:15:37Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Oh, sorry…we were just talking about the CO delegate thing. > > Hey that was you…you switched topics on me. 😃 Sorry 'bout that. It wasn’t a deliberate head-fake. I just wasn’t paying close enough attention. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3458 "2016-04-11T22:18:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > I see this over and over again, and I’ve been meaning to correct it, but just hadn’t gotten around to it. This is a republic and representative democracy, not a true democracy. Well, no shit, Sherlock. You think that hasn’t been pointed out once or twice on this board sometime before you joined? There are a lot of people that believe that we should be a true democracy and make arguments to that effect. There are a lot of people who argue that our choice of representatives should be made in a more transparently democratic manner. Pointing out that we’re not a true democracy doesn’t do much to counter their arguments. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3459 "2016-04-11T22:35:11Z")
Yeah I’ll just rush right out and read the entire library of threads now, shall I? Anyway, this whole thing is moot. As Sen. Robert Risch points out, parties are individual, private organizations, from national to state, county, and some even precinct. They make their own rules which have nothing to do with the ‘will of the people.’ It’s organized sort of like the NFL (though more like a tree) with the national GOP basically being the league office, promulgating some policies through the lower levels but not controlling individual chapters’ rules. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3460 "2016-04-11T22:40:45Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Yeah I’ll just rush right out and read the entire library of threads now, shall I? > > Anyway, this whole thing is moot. As Sen. Robert Risch points out, parties are individual, private organizations, from national to state, county, and some even precinct. They make their own rules which have nothing to do with the ‘will of the people.’ It’s organized sort of like the NFL (though more like a tree) with the national GOP basically being the league office, promulgating some policies through the lower levels but not controlling individual chapters’ rules. You do realize you are using the exact same argument used by segregationist Dixiecrats to justify [racially exclusive primaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_primaries) in the Jim Crow South, right? ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3461 "2016-04-11T22:42:51Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Yeah I’ll just rush right out and read the entire library of threads now, shall I? No, but you should quit acting like you’re the most knowledgeable person who has ever posted here. > [@](#): > > As Sen. Robert Risch points out, … Who? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3462 "2016-04-11T22:44:13Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > You do realize you are using the exact same argument used by segregationist Dixiecrats to justify [racially exclusive primaries](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_primaries) in the Jim Crow South, right? You can paint it however you like, I’m not ‘justifying’ anything. I’m communicating what the _reality_ is. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3463 "2016-04-11T22:45:41Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > No, but you should quit acting like you’re the most knowledgeable person who has ever posted here. > Who? My bad…James Risch (R-ID), member of the Senate Intelligence Committee. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2016, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828/3464 "2016-04-11T22:46:07Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > You can paint it however you like, I’m not ‘justifying’ anything. I’m communicating what the _reality_ is. Deal with it. Yes, but this reality can be changed and _it has_ changed. Presidential nomination processes have changed greatly from the past when there was no semblance of a democratic primary process and instead candidates were selected by party elites. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828.md?page=172) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-republican-primary-campaign/729828.md?page=174)