# Trumps rigged polls **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 27, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088 "2016-09-27T23:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/1 "2016-09-27T23:10:42Z")
Well, naturally, Trump has declared himself the clear winner in last night’s debate. He won “all of the polls”. [Trouble is, these “polls” were internet polls that allowed multiple voting, voting from outside the country, and in some cases did not even exist.](http://fortune.com/2016/09/27/trump-online-polls/) Will ANYone (outside of his base, and the legions who worked feverishly to vote in these fake polls) believe this nonsense? His team is sure pushing this pretty hard. Is it going to convince anyone to shift their vote? Does it make him look like a winner, or even more pathetic and sad? ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2016, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/2 "2016-09-27T23:53:47Z")
So he was able to rig all of these polls? That’s kind of impressive actually. CNBC - Trump 67% Clinton 33% CNN - Clinton 62% Trump 27% Drudge - Trump 82% Clinton 17% San Diego Local Fox Affiliate - Trump 61% Clinton 34% [nj.com](http://nj.com) - Trump 57% Clinton 38% Breitbart - Trump 76% Clinton 24% [slate.com](http://slate.com) - Trump 55% Clinton 45% [Heavy.com](http://Heavy.com) - Trump 72% Clinton 25% Las Vegas Sun - Donald Trump 82% Clinton 18% Fortune - Trump 52% Clinton 48% Time Magazine - Trump 55% Clinton 45% Roanoke Times - Roanoke, VA - Trump 87% Clinton 12% [thehill.com](http://thehill.com) - Trump 58% Clinton 36% The Patch - Atlanta, GA - Trump 84% Clinton 16% Hollywood Gossip - Trump 74% Clinton 26% ShelbyStar - Shelby, NC Trump 86% Clinton 14% ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/3 "2016-09-28T00:11:26Z")
If they were online polls, then the results can easily be rigged. Not by Trump himself, but supporters can easily vote repeatedly on sites which only use browser cookies to keep track of users. I read that Trump supporters on Reddit were sending out such info. Hillary supporters could have done the same thing as well. So in an online poll, the results just tell you whose supporters were more motivated to abuse the voting system. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/4 "2016-09-28T00:39:59Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > So he was able to rig all of these polls? > > That’s kind of impressive actually. As you know, I did not say Trump rigged the polls. The polls belonging to Trump were indeed rigged though. As you well know. Or perhaps you don’t like that phraseology. Online polls are not really “polls” at all. People can vote multiple times. Bots can vote. Votes can be made from outside the country. The best that can be said is that they are an indication of how “devoted” your supporters are, and perhaps what unethical lengths your supporters are willing to stoop to. So in that case, Trump did indeed “win” in that he had the most devoted and unethical following. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/5 "2016-09-28T00:41:53Z")
Indeed, in fact the CNBC, Slate and many others are informal polls, that is: the ones that can be manipulated by many. But even Slate looked at the one where pollsters did ask about how the devate did go. > **[Hillary Won the Debate! What Does That Mean for Hillary?](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2016/09/hillary-won-the-debate-whats-that-mean-for-the-polls.html)** > > The winner of the first presidential debate is not up for debate. Hillary Clinton wasn’t perfect—particularly at the start—but she grew stronger as the... > [@](#): > > The winner of the first presidential debate is not up for debate. Hillary Clinton wasn’t perfect—particularly at the start—but she grew stronger as the night wore on. Donald Trump, meanwhile, began to fall apart roughly a third of the way through the 90-minute affair and only became more nonsensical and aggrieved from there. The night went so badly for him that Rudy Giuliani, one of his top surrogates, said afterward that if he were Trump, he’d sit out the final two debates altogether. Same can be seen at CNBC, that advices on how their poll is just for fun really: > [@](#): > > Disclaimer: This is an informal poll. Results are not scientific and may not necessarily reflect the opinions of the public as a whole. Vox has one of the best explanations about this: > **[Donald Trump won the debate … according to useless website polls that mean...](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/9/27/13072668/debate-trump-clinton-polls)** > > Meanwhile, the scientific polls show Hillary Clinton won the debate. > [@](#): > > Donald Trump won the debate … according to useless website polls that mean nothing > Meanwhile, the scientific polls show Hillary Clinton won the debate. > [@](#): > > What’s going on here? > > The key difference is the kind of poll the candidates are citing. Trump is going on unscientific online polls, which don’t have any controls to make sure they are actually representative of American voters. Clinton’s claim relies on more rigorous scientific polls — those like CNN’s — that apply controls to try to be representative of US voters. > > Because of that, Clinton’s claim that she won the debate is much more credible. As Huffington Post polling director Ariel Edwards-Levy put it on Twitter, “A poll that does not exert some measure of control over who takes it and how many times they do so is not a poll and you should ignore it.” > The difference between unscientific and scientific polls > > The polls that Trump is relying on let anyone vote with absolutely zero checks. If you’re online at the time and find the poll, you can vote. You don’t have to live in America or be a US citizen. And you can vote multiple times — by reopening a browser tab, going behind an internet proxy, or logging on to a different account. Since Trump has been deluded by those Internet polls. \*\*The lesson here is that Trump has demonstrated why he should not be president. \*\* He his now clearly demonstrating how willing he is to fall for misleading information, \*\*much more than Bush the lesser was. \*\* And then, Trump is just setting himself up to be grossly unprepared as he is following faulty information and he will double down on his failed tactics going to the next debates. Fine with me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/6 "2016-09-28T00:46:17Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > So he was able to rig all of these polls? > > That’s kind of impressive actually. Not Trump personally - I doubt he’s particularly internet savvy - but people from [Breitbart.com](http://Breitbart.com) working with posters at 4chan’s white-nationalist sympathizing /pol/ and various Reddit groups. Then they all got pissy about his 400 lb hacker slam. **Pepe’s post-debate identity crisis: Online alt-right turns on Donald Trump after his presidential debate fiasco** > **[Pepe's post-debate identity crisis: Online alt-right turns on Donald Trump...](https://www.salon.com/2016/09/27/pepes-post-debate-identity-crisis-4chan-ditches-donald-trump-after-his-presidential-debate-fiasco/)** > > The alt-right has turned on Donald Trump: "Our only mission . . . was for the lulz" **Donald Trump’s Online Trolls Turn on Their ‘God Emperor’** > **[Donald Trump’s Online Trolls Turn on Their ‘God Emperor’](https://www.thedailybeast.com/donald-trumps-online-trolls-turn-on-their-god-emperor)** > > The alt-right diehards of 4chan, who’ve helped power the GOP nominee’s campaign with racist memes, were none too thrilled about his ‘400-pound’ hacker comment at the first debate. They still brigaded online polls in his name anyway. **4chan and Reddit bombarded debate polls to declare Trump the winner** > **[4chan and Reddit bombarded debate polls to declare Trump the winner](https://www.dailydot.com/debug/trump-clinton-debate-online-polls-4chan-the-donald/?tw=dd)** > > Who won the first presidential debate? It depends on who trolled the polls. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/7 "2016-09-28T00:48:33Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > He his now clearly demonstrating how willing he is to fall for misleading information, \*\*much more than Bush the lesser was. \*\* - Trump said that Hillary started the Obama birther lie - Trump spouted the lie for 5 years before saying it was false Therefore, Trump is so gullible he falls for Clinton’s lies for FIVE YEARS I’m not sure Trump thought that line of attack all the way through. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/8 "2016-09-28T00:52:27Z")
I know Conway and the staff are too smart to buy this. But I wonder about their candidate. He might just be using this talking point to fool the idiots in his base…but he might actually believe this, right? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/9 "2016-09-28T00:53:46Z")
I think it’s a testament to how well Clinton did that 24% of the people hanging out Breitbart thought she won. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/10 "2016-09-28T00:55:17Z")
So, **GulfTiger** is it your contention that these “polls” represent objective reality, that is, you think that they show that the majority of the population of the United States considers Trump to be the overall winner of this past debate? Yes or No. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/11 "2016-09-28T01:12:39Z")
Of course not, I don’t put much stock in polls period. Including the ones showing Hillary won. The truth lies somewhere in between. That is why I called the debate a draw last night. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/12 "2016-09-28T01:16:52Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > Of course not, I don’t put much stock in polls period. Including the ones showing Hillary won. > > The truth lies somewhere in between. That is why I called the debate a draw last night. The “polls” you cited above are not polls. They are internet click-bait. Do you not put much stock in statistically valid data collection and analysis of results? ---
**Author:** ![dofe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7ba0ec/32.png) [@dofe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dofe)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/13 "2016-09-28T01:18:28Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > Of course not, I don’t put much stock in polls period. Including the ones showing Hillary won. > > The truth lies somewhere in between. That is why I called the debate a draw last night. When faced with (1) a scientific poll and (2) an unscientific poll, the “truth lies somewhere in between.” OK then. ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/14 "2016-09-28T01:18:34Z")
It’s pretty tough to trust anyone these days. So called ‘scientific’ polls have been dead wrong many times. ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/15 "2016-09-28T01:37:21Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > It’s pretty tough to trust anyone these days. So called ‘scientific’ polls have been dead wrong many times. I don’t think you should trust anyone. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/16 "2016-09-28T01:44:14Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > Of course not, I don’t put much stock in polls period. Including the ones showing Hillary won. > > The truth lies somewhere in between. **That is why I called the debate a draw last night.** Says the Black Knight. 😛 (Sure, it’s the obvious line. But what a set-up…) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/17 "2016-09-28T01:45:31Z")
The only poll that will matter is on a Tuesday in November. The movement in national and key state polls over the next week are the best proxy we have for impacting that result. And the less unscientific polls are the best proxy we have we have for what that movement will be over the next week. But we won’t have to wait too long for next week. Meanwhile enough people saw this for themselves that they will come to their own conclusion. My own unscientific poll of undecideds (a few usually GOP leaning voters who are wanting to justify voting for Trump because they fear how high they believe Clinton will raise their taxes - these are high earners - and who already dislike Clinton) is that this debate did not get them to move over to Clinton but pushed them away from Trump. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/18 "2016-09-28T01:54:57Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > It’s pretty tough to trust anyone these days. So called ‘scientific’ polls have been dead wrong many times. Examples? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/19 "2016-09-28T01:59:29Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > It’s pretty tough to trust anyone these days. So called ‘scientific’ polls have been dead wrong many times. So… you have a perception that some polls have been wrong in the past. This is undoubtedly true. From there, you proceed to pretty much discount the entire scientific process of data collection, analysis and interpretation. You “don’t trust anyone.” Is this pretty much it? How do you think we should decide on how to proceed with things like medical research studies then? Do an internet “poll”? Cast chicken bones? What? ---
**Author:** ![GulfTiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e79b87/32.png) [@GulfTiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GulfTiger)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/20 "2016-09-28T02:05:02Z")
so you’re jumping from politics to medical research? talk about non-sequiturs sheesh [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088.md?page=2)