# Trumps rigged polls **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 27, 2016, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088 "2016-09-27T23:10:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/41 "2016-09-28T15:00:56Z")
Online public click-polls aren’t really polls, they’re games. If it’s one of those “who won the debate?” widget things on a website, it’s not an actual poll and the results mean absolutely nothing. Real polls have scientific techniques to make sure that only one response comes from each person taking part. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/42 "2016-09-28T15:03:46Z")
I just saw the clip last night where he bragged about how he discounted the CNN poll because it was obviously rigged, but he won the more important CBS poll. There was no CBS poll. ---
**Author:** ![UberArchetype](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/2bfe46/32.png) [@UberArchetype](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UberArchetype)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/43 "2016-09-28T15:13:45Z")
Next thing you know, in November people will be claiming the election was rigged. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/44 "2016-09-28T15:14:34Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > I just saw the clip last night where he bragged about how he discounted the CNN poll because it was obviously rigged, but he won the more important CBS poll. > > There was no CBS poll. I think I saw a poll from CBS, but it was a CBS affiliate. A local CBS station did their own survey. I’m guessing that’s the poll Trump saw. He stopped reading at CBS and didn’t see that it was followed by a local city like “CBS Tampa” or something. I can’t remember which affiliate it was. Anyway, it was probably an online poll designed to generate website traffic more than to accurately gauge the public’s opinion of the debate. ETA: Found the poll: [CBSNewYork Poll: Who Won The First Presidential Debate? - CBS New York](http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/09/26/cbsnewyork-poll-who-won-the-first-presidential-debate/) > [@](#): > > Democratic presidential nominees Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton participated in the first of four debates for the 2016 Election. **Cast your vote below in our unscientific poll.** ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/45 "2016-09-28T15:51:25Z")
> [@UberArchetype](#): > > Next thing you know, in November people will be claiming the election was rigged. :rolleyes: You just made me realize that this is why people will think the election was rigged. If someone doesn’t understand the difference between a scientific poll and a ‘click-over-and-over’ poll, they will blindly believe whichever poll conforms to their desired outcome. If people can game the system to make it look like one candidate is 10-20% favored and then that candidate loses, it can look like the election was rigged at first glance. If one candidate truly has a much greater amount of support in the population, then they should win. But unscientific polls aren’t accurately gauging the mood of the electorate. The bogus polls can cause people to believe their candidate has much more support than they really do. If people don’t understand that the poll results are phony, they won’t understand why their candidate lost. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/46 "2016-09-28T15:52:39Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > Of course not, I don’t put much stock in polls period. Including the ones showing Hillary won. > > The truth lies somewhere in between. That is why I called the debate a draw last night. Some people say 2+2=4, but my five year old says its equal to 5, so I think it’s probably somewhere in the middle, say 4.5. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/47 "2016-09-28T16:19:40Z")
I say GulfTiger owes me $1000. He/she says they owe me nothing. The truth lies somewhere in between. Therefore, GulfTiger owes me $500. QED ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2016, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/48 "2016-09-28T16:28:08Z")
Trump and supporters are really followers of [Lysenkoism](http://skepdic.com/lysenko.html). Lysenkoism and Lamarckism are favored by those who see will as the primary driving force of life, IOW people that do love authoritarians and strong men to lead, if their will tells them that the polls must be made to conform to their opinions. It will be. Science be dammed. And so it is their attitude to scientific information that contradicts their cherished dogmas. Science will be ignored regardless if the policies they will enact will do lots of harm to America, the world and the future. It should not had been, but many Republicans now are proud of ignoring evolution, [when it is a big factor in antibiotic resistance](http://www.ibtimes.com/antibiotic-resistance-how-livestock-lobbyists-drug-companies-hinder-us-fight-against-1901499). They also reject the science that is telling us that humans are changing the climate and so [they oppose the EPA on setting new emission regulations](http://thehill.com/policy/energy-environment/241952-senate-gop-aims-to-overturn-epa-climate-rules). While I do accept a lot of the data about letting people own guns, I do part ways with the NRA and many Republicans [when they ignored science too when lead in bullets was shown to be harmful to many animals in parks and forests](http://mediamatters.org/research/2013/08/08/nra-pulled-its-science-denying-website-that-cla/195299). And more recently anti vaccination, an unscientific idea that was bipartisan in the past **but on the fringes of the parties** , has been nowadays shown to be pushed into the mainstream; thanks to Republican in power like most of the Republican candidates and even Trump. Going back to the internet polls and seeing Trump is believing in them regardless that is setting him for failure, what he and others have done to the polls are perfect examples of [Cargo cult science](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult_science). Many republicans are fooling themselves. > [@](#): > > Feynman cautioned that to avoid becoming cargo cult scientists, researchers must avoid fooling themselves, be willing to question and doubt their own theories and their own results, and investigate possible flaws in a theory or an experiment. He recommended that researchers adopt an unusually high level of honesty which is rarely encountered in everyday life, and gave examples from advertising, politics, and psychology to illustrate the everyday dishonesty which should be unacceptable in science. Feynman cautioned, > > > [@](#): > > > > We’ve learned from experience that the truth will come out. Other experimenters will repeat your experiment and find out whether you were wrong or right. Nature’s phenomena will agree or they’ll disagree with your theory. And, although you may gain some temporary fame and excitement, you will not gain a good reputation as a scientist if you haven’t tried to be very careful in this kind of work. And it’s this type of integrity, this kind of care not to fool yourself, that is missing to a large extent in much of the research in cargo cult science. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/49 "2016-09-29T02:42:19Z")
Fox News has spoken. "Memo: Fox News VP reminds staff that online debate polls ‘do not meet our editorial standards.’ " > [@Fox News VP Blanton](#): > > “News networks and other organisations go to great effort and rigor to conduct scientific polls - for good reason,” Blanton wrote in the memo. “They know **quick vote items posted on the web are nonsense** , not true measures of public opinion.” However, it appears Fox stalwarts like Hannity and Kilmeade literally did not get the memo, as they continued to refer to the online polls as evidence Trump won the debate. > **[Memo: Fox News VP reminds staff that online debate polls 'do not meet our...](https://www.businessinsider.com/fox-news-online-debate-polls-trump-drudge-2016-9)** > > A Fox News executive sent a memo reminding television producers and the politics team that unscientific online polls "do not meet our editorial standards." ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/50 "2016-09-29T02:54:22Z")
Fox has editorial standards? Did they check that before they wrote the memo? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/51 "2016-09-29T03:05:21Z")
From CBC News, not even in the same country and with no dog in the race except maybe some respect for facts and rationality: [_Analysis_ **#TrumpWon the debate? Legitimate polls show otherwise** _Online ‘polls’ pegged Donald Trump as the presidential debate winner, but scientific polls did not_](http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/grenier-uselection-debate-polls-1.3782098) ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/52 "2016-09-29T03:11:24Z")
> [@GulfTiger](#): > > So called ‘scientific’ polls have been dead wrong many times. So has Trump, but you trust him. ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/53 "2016-09-29T04:11:02Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Indeed. After months of looking at the Trump supporters what I do see is that they are relying on a lot of ignorance and bad sources of information that tells them to fall for a delusion (Internet polls with no scientific or good control support) that is not reflecting what most of the people did see. The polls have been affected by the same guys that are consuming that deluded information. Thankfully those guys are still less than half of all Americans. I don’t think it’s just internet polls with no good scientific or good control support that are delusional. The GOP’s own polls had them believing that Romney would win. Were their polls all that scientifically off? The danger lies I think not only in believing bad polls, but also in believing only the subset of the good polls that show the answer you want. Isn’t this at heart what happened to the Romney campaign? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/54 "2016-09-29T11:42:36Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Fox has editorial standards? Did they check that before they wrote the memo? With Ailes gone, maybe some of them are dusting off the J-school textbooks. You know, forgotten wisdom of the Ancient Wise, long suppressed by the Dark Lord, re-discovered by trembling acolytes after he’s been slain by the fearless warrior-princess, etc, etc. It’s mythic, **Luci**! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2016, 1:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088/55 "2016-09-29T13:18:08Z")
I just skimmed the thread so this thought may have already been covered. … Reasonable commentators say that Trump’s performance got relatively worse as the debate wore on. While Clinton’s got relatively better. So somebody who watched only the first, say, 15 minutes would have a different impression of the whole affair than somebody who watched only, say, the last 15 minutes. If I had to speculate about the folks voting in Breitbart, _et al_’s polls, I’d bet they didn’t last the full 2 hours or whatever it was. Which injects another bias into the results. In addition to the massive biases mentioned by many folks above. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-rigged-polls/767088.md?page=2)