# Trump's Shutdown **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2019, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577 "2019-01-11T06:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/181 "2019-01-16T00:08:55Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Join the Republican Party and adopt a Milo Minderbinder complex. At the risk of completely derailing this thread, I should add that my tax-averse father hated the military and loved movies like _Catch-22_ and _M_A_S_H\* that mocked it. Too bad he couldn’t be bothered to read the book, or he might have actually gained some self-awareness. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/182 "2019-01-16T00:12:45Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Good gracious! Whatever will become of the punditocracy’s beloved “Dems in disarray” narrative? However will they go on without it? They’ll simply lie and say that it’s happening. The idiot muppets will believe it. ---
**Author:** ![slumtrimpet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@slumtrimpet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slumtrimpet)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/183 "2019-01-16T00:14:12Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I think McConnell has convinced himself that everything bad about Trump is just flim-flam created by the media and the Democrats, and believes that the Wall is an actual thing that Trump wants. He doesn’t realize that Trump will just keep the government turned off for as long as he can get away with and that there is no “deal”. > > This could take months before McConnell realizes that he’s the only person who can restart the government, and that he’s not accomplishing anything except to make people hate the Republican party more, in the meanwhile. I really really hope that a man who has been in the US Senate since 1984, a Judge and a US attorney prior to that, and is the leader of his party in the Senate isn’t that stupid. Deplorable; yes, stupid; no. ---
**Author:** ![JmeTN](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9dc877/32.png) [@JmeTN](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JmeTN)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/184 "2019-01-16T00:15:10Z")
Wonder if we could do a switch-up & trade the wall idea in for something a bit more enticing? When I used to babysit, if a toy was getting super annoying, Id trade the toy for a cookie & park time. What would Trump do if faced with the possibility of over-throwing the corrupt Mexican government & making Mexico a US territory (making them a commonwealth like Puerto Rico), instead of building a wall? It could potentially start the process of solving the humanitarian crisis, allow the citizens to invest in their own communities & infrastructure by implementing an FDR-era New Deal or something similar. Think Trump would go for it? ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/185 "2019-01-16T00:17:26Z")
> [@JmeTN](#): > > Wonder if we could do a switch-up & trade the wall idea in for something a bit more enticing? When I used to babysit, if a toy was getting super annoying, Id trade the toy for a cookie & park time. What would Trump do if faced with the possibility of over-throwing the corrupt Mexican government & making Mexico a US territory (making them a commonwealth like Puerto Rico), instead of building a wall? It could potentially start the process of solving the humanitarian crisis, allow the citizens to invest in their own communities & infrastructure by implementing an FDR-era New Deal or something similar. Think Trump would go for it? If by “overthrow” you mean “nuke”, you might be able to get some traction there. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/186 "2019-01-16T00:19:28Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > This president will fall when this country wakes up and understands that rhetoric, tone, integrity, and character matter – and intellect and competence, too. So… Never. Oh well, the American Experiment was good while it lasted. Last one there please turn out the lights. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/187 "2019-01-16T00:28:04Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Voters will conveniently forget who was driving the bus and put yet another incompetent boob in the White House. > > The previous Republican to hold that office is my cite. Those that self-identify as Republicans at this point are either corrupt, evil, or irredeemably stupid. They are the kind of people who [blame Obama](https://www.sacbee.com/news/nation-world/national/article170265837.html) for not doing more for victims of Hurricane Katrina, or blame him for just sitting around at his desk in the oval office during 9/11. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/188 "2019-01-16T01:01:07Z")
> [@begbert2](#): > > On the off chance that you’re really this stupid, he was talking about coal. > > Feel free to Poe me - it would make me feel marginally better about the universe as a whole. Do try to be convincing, though. Coal is not petrified trees. 🙂 You lost me on the second part. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/189 "2019-01-16T01:29:03Z")
> [@JmeTN](#): > > Wonder if we could do a switch-up & trade the wall idea in for something a bit more enticing? When I used to babysit, if a toy was getting super annoying, Id trade the toy for a cookie & park time. What would Trump do if faced with the possibility of over-throwing the corrupt Mexican government & making Mexico a US territory (making them a commonwealth like Puerto Rico), instead of building a wall? It could potentially start the process of solving the humanitarian crisis, allow the citizens to invest in their own communities & infrastructure by implementing an FDR-era New Deal or something similar. Think Trump would go for it? Trump did -maybe- the absolute bare minimum when it came to helping hurricane ravaged Puerto Rico. Trump doesn’t want Mexico. The last thing Trump wants is more responsibility. Correction: The last thing Trump wants is responsibility. The second to last is _more._ ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/190 "2019-01-16T01:44:06Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I can’t fathom this. How can someone live an entire life in this country and not understand the scope of the impact their tax-funded government actually has on their lives, and the economy? A lot of people think that money paid in taxes just sort of disappears into a black hole called ‘government waste’. They don’t consider that even if it was all spent just on salaries for lazy bureaucrats that the money still reenters the economy when those folks buy things. I have a cousin who used to be a supervisor of some sort with the MN Department of Transportation. Not a stupid man, generally liberal in his beliefs. He looked at taxes as a black hole of waste. I think he was genuinely surprised when I suggested that the money spent by the government actually affected the economy in a positive way - he just had never thought about it. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/191 "2019-01-16T01:49:43Z")
Imagine the outcry if air travel is disrupted during Super Bowl weekend… [Super Bowl planners: Shutdown brings ‘uncharted territory’](https://www.apnews.com/266e8e7977ba4f59a21b6d3af7985bf4). ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/192 "2019-01-16T02:21:09Z")
> [@slumtrimpet](#): > > I really really hope that a man who has been in the US Senate since 1984, a Judge and a US attorney prior to that, and is the leader of his party in the Senate isn’t that stupid. > Deplorable; yes, stupid; no. Orrin Hatch went out saying that he thought Trump was just the victim of lies and innuendo. He had no real reason to maintain the party line, while retiring. Smart people aren’t proof against self-delusion. And if you have spent decades creating conspiracies and lies, it might make you believe that everything is conspiracies and lies. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/193 "2019-01-16T02:30:28Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Orrin Hatch went out saying that he thought Trump was just the victim of lies and innuendo. He had no real reason to maintain the party line, while retiring. > > Smart people aren’t proof against self-delusion. And if you have spent decades creating conspiracies and lies, it might make you believe that everything is conspiracies and lies. Yes. And self-justification is a powerful motivating force. Avoiding the feeling “guilt” is important enough for many, that they find within themselves the resources to entirely re-write reality. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/194 "2019-01-16T02:44:21Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Yes. And self-justification is a powerful motivating force. Avoiding the feeling “guilt” is important enough for many, that they find within themselves the resources to entirely re-write reality. Retire with your Trump bucks and delude yourself into believing “It’s not my fault. It’s not my fault.” ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/195 "2019-01-16T13:33:40Z")
Oh, darn. This makes me sadz… [White non-college Americans move away from Trump during shutdown](https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/01/15/politics/white-noncollege-shutdown-polling/index.html) > [@](#): > > During the longest government shutdown in US history, President Donald Trump has been losing support among those who may be his strongest supporters – white Americans who don’t have college degrees. > > Among this group, only 45% said they approved of the job Trump is doing as President, according to a recentCNN pollconducted by SSRS. That is the lowest level of support among this subgroup by 1 percentage point in CNN’s surveys and a dip from a poll conducted in early December, before the partial shutdown, when 54% of whites without college degrees approved of his job as President and 39% disapproved. > > The dip is notable since among whites who hold college degrees, Trump’s ratings are largely unchanged in the last month and remain sharply negative – 64% disapprove and 32% approve. A 9 point drop among the “base” in a month. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/196 "2019-01-16T14:14:59Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Yeah, I get all that, but how do they sell the idea to their base? > > “Back when we controlled both houses of Congress, we were perfectly content to pass stop-gap measures that didn’t include wall funding, but now that Dems control the House it’s suddenly much more important.” > > I realize many GOP voters only see “Trump wants wall / Dems say no / Trump is strong to resist,” but why aren’t they asking what happened the last two years? Because our society is visceral. The GOP knows their base wants an excuse to hate liberals/Democrats. They don’t talk about their own party’s shortcomings and their memories are fatally short. Rather than confront Trump, they slink away and retire. Believe me, this former Reagan-era conservative identifies with your confusion and dismay. The GOP used to be all about fiscal responsibility, accountability for one’s actions, and considering Russia the enemy. Now they’ve completely abandoned those principles and see that their voters don’t care if they lie their asses off. McWattle is a master manipulator and managed to shift anger away from the Congressional Republicans. He probably realizes those tactics won’t work in the long run, but he already has experience using minority power under Obama. After the next blue wave, he’ll regrow GOP strength like a cancer. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/197 "2019-01-16T14:30:50Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > Do I expect all of Trump’s “base” to cause some sort of political sea-change event? Of course not. The goal is to chip away at Trump’s base so that, over time, it’s not a solid 35-38% of the country but maybe 15-20%. Honestly, if a person has not stopped being a Trump supporter by now s/he will not be turned away by anything anybody (Reps, Dems, prosecuters, Russians, Trump himself) says or does in the next two years. Rather, those who oppose Trump need to get the “Apathetic Party” fired up. After all, _both_ Trump and Clinton were ‘outvoted’ by those who didn’t vote at all. Win enough of them over, convince them their vote _does_ matter, and not one more MAGAt needs to be won over. > [@Akaj](#): > > OMG my father was a _Catch-22_ character. Now how do I shake my Yossarian complex? Paddle a liferaft to Sweden? ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/198 "2019-01-16T17:17:37Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Well, I guess when your philosophy is, “Burn it all down! Self-government is for chumps!”, then a message of compassion, treating people well and helping people with problems instead of condemning them might seem cultish. > > Wtf pissed you off so much that you basically side with the Russians in wanting to destabilize the USA? Self-government? Is that what you call the US system? The ratio of representatives to individuals makes that claim one of ideology, not reality, which is where the pageantry and pledges come in. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/199 "2019-01-16T19:05:20Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > The Petrified Forest is in Arizona. And?.. Why do you, with no prompting whatsoever, bring up that factoid? > [@](#): > > There are some country people that are mean, but I don’t believe that it is a majority. I’d rather think of them as ignorant than stupid. And yet, they choose to remain ignorant. > [@](#): > > Is your point that they are racist? I believe some of them don’t want to be around some minorities, Yeah, that’s racism. > [@](#): > > but I don’t think they want to see minorities suffer. But they also don’t care if minorities suffer, so long as they don’t have to be around them. > [@](#): > > Some of course, are real assholes. And they prefer to see people suffer, and minorities are an easy target. > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > So… Never. Oh well, the American Experiment was good while it lasted. Last one there please turn out the lights. > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Coal is not petrified trees. 🙂 No, it is not. Maybe you were confused by my glib use of _fossilized_ trees as a reference to the fossil fuel known as coal, which is actually made more of other forms of organic matter than trees, but it would require a certain absurd level of both pedanticism and ignorance to actually have that confusion. > [@](#): > > You lost me on the second part. I think he was seeing if he was being wooshed by someone pretending to be dumb. > [@Folacin](#): > > A lot of people think that money paid in taxes just sort of disappears into a black hole called ‘government waste’. They don’t consider that even if it was all spent just on salaries for lazy bureaucrats that the money still reenters the economy when those folks buy things. Actually, just about the only time that your tax dollars do not reenter the economy is when it goes to pay off the national debt. (The other being to make payments to foreign entities and governments.) > [@](#): > > I have a cousin who used to be a supervisor of some sort with the MN Department of Transportation. Not a stupid man, generally liberal in his beliefs. He looked at taxes as a black hole of waste. I think he was genuinely surprised when I suggested that the money spent by the government actually affected the economy in a positive way - he just had never thought about it. From your job description, doesn’t that mean that he was getting paid by tax dollars? ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [January 16, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/200 "2019-01-16T19:36:19Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > A lot of people think that money paid in taxes just sort of disappears into a black hole called ‘government waste’. In their defense, this administration has provided a lot of evidence for that black hole. There’s Carson’s $31,000 dining set, and Price’s use of military jets, and Mnuchin’s honeymoon, and … etc., etc. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577.md?page=11)