# Trump's Shutdown **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2019, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577 "2019-01-11T06:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 21
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/401 "2019-01-25T00:54:31Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Jokes about giant statues aside, I’d have thought that a serious proposal for a project assessment phase as part of fiscal responsibility to the US taxpayer would be a good thing - and hard to call a trap. Do you know how long that will take? Meanwhile the armies of Sauron… er, Sauza… Juarez… whatever… are massing along our southern border. We can’t push pencils and count beans when a horde of cantaloupe-calved _violadores_, loaded up with Spanish fly and marihuana, is mapping the quickest route to your daughter’s playpen! ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/402 "2019-01-25T01:13:50Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Has a thorough assessment phase for the Wall project been carried out? > > Something that will result in proper estimates, quantity surveying of materials, feasibility studies, environmental impact, resourcing plans, Gantt charts, timeliness, etc., etc., that would normally be done for such a huge undertaking? > > What would be the cost for such a phase? Would getting such a phase underway be sufficient to both please the base in the short term and also eventually result in an excuse to not do it when the price tag is finally understood? Would agreement to assessment still be paying Dane-geld? > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’d vote for something like this. appoint a comission to study the issue, accept bids, draw up plans, work out how to get the land etc. with the plan that construction will start somewhere around January 21 2021 (assuming the sitting president still wants it). He and his base can’t complain, after all as the best most popular president ever they know he’s a shoe-in for a second term. NO!! Give them _nothing_! Stand strong; do not bend. Now is not the time for compromise. ETA: I see that **Aspenglow** gets it (of course). ---
**Author:** ![aurora\_maire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aurora_maire/32/328_2.png) [@aurora\_maire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aurora_maire)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/403 "2019-01-25T01:34:44Z")
I just saw a clip of Trump saying this about what Wilbur Ross had said earlier today: > [@](#): > > He claimed that grocery stores would “work along” with furloughed employees because “they know the people” and have been “dealing with them for years.” > > “Local people know who they are, when they go for groceries and everything else,” Trump said of furloughed workers. “And I think what Wilbur was probably trying to say is that they will work along.” > > Trump added that banks, too, are “working along” with furloughed federal employees. > > “If you have mortgages, the mortgagees, the folks collecting the interest and all of those things, they work along. And that’s what happens in a time like this,” he said. Says the man who has never been in a grocery store. And had a personal banker. Kroger doesn’t give a shit who I am. The company that holds my mortgage has one office in another city. Jesus, could he be more out of touch? Every TV channel should play the clip over and over until even Trump’s fans see what he really thinks about the “real Americans”. > **[Trump says grocery stores, banks will give furloughed workers a break during...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-says-grocery-stores-banks-will-give-furloughed-workers-a-break-during-shutdown/2019/01/24/613b1f12-202c-11e9-9145-3f74070bbdb9_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.edd059ff755f)** > > After Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said he couldn’t understand why federal workers were visiting food banks, the president told reporters that he believed grocery stores would “work along” with furloughed employees. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/404 "2019-01-25T01:45:06Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > I’d vote for something like this. appoint a comission to study the issue, accept bids, draw up plans, work out how to get the land etc. with the plan that construction will start somewhere around January 21 2021 (assuming the sitting president still wants it). He and his base can’t complain, after all as the best most popular president ever they know he’s a shoe-in for a second term. Also, include all kinds of strict requirements for all work to be Made-In-America and American-Owned materials and labor. If [certain nasty suspicions](https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/letters/2019/01/19/letter-who-will-profit/) about the real purpose of the wall project have a basis in fact, that’ll screw Lord Orange over in a way that he will have the devil’s own time wriggling out of or even complaining about. > [@](#): > > Evraz, Russia’s second-largest steel company, owns three American steel companies: one in Pueblo, Colo., one in Portland, Ore., and one in Chicago. Russian Roman Abramovich, who lives in Moscow, owns the controlling shares in these “American” steel companies. > If Evraz gets a contract to supply steel slats for a border wall, a lot of our hard-earned tax dollars will end up in the pockets of Russian oligarch Abramovich and his cronies, including Russian President Vladimir Putin… ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/405 "2019-01-25T02:00:46Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Hmmm… A giant statue on the border, facing south, with an outstretched and forbidding arm (I’m thinking the LotR Argonath here), could appeal to your Pres, come in way under 6bn, and be just as effective as the Wall. 😃 > > And when it inevitably falls down you can get an Ozymandias thing going. 🆒 You are [ahead](https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/lotr/images/7/79/Argonath.png/revision/latest?cb=20180902182809)of me. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/406 "2019-01-25T02:07:55Z")
There has been no design work done on the wall. Shit-for-brains simply put it out to bid to contractors. If you haven’t read it yet, [Amy Patrick (a court-accept wall expert)](https://www.facebook.com/apatrick/posts/10100902776405671) has an excellent summary of just some of the issues with his “plan”, and projects that the cost could go well over $50 billion before you even \*start \*adding in yearly maintenance and personnel costs. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/407 "2019-01-25T04:06:13Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > I guess I’m dense. I’m having trouble distinguishing the difference. If he _thinks_ he’s winning, he can sell it as winning to his base. They require nothing more, and it’s just a continuation of the con. Um, I’m not sure I agree that this is any sort of useful yardstick on which to measure courses of action in regards to Trump. Isn’t the worst thing about him and his base the depth of their self-delusion? Wouldn’t literally any action, or lack of action, be used as you suggest? If so, why not consider the suggestion under discussion? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/408 "2019-01-25T04:40:45Z")
Planning is for the weak. ---
**Author:** ![Aspenglow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aspenglow/32/76_2.png) [@Aspenglow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aspenglow)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/409 "2019-01-25T04:47:29Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > Um, I’m not sure I agree that this is any sort of useful yardstick on which to measure courses of action in regards to Trump. Isn’t the worst thing about him and his base the depth of their self-delusion? Wouldn’t literally any action, or lack of action, be used as you suggest? If so, why not consider the suggestion under discussion? Um, because _why_? What Democrats are doing is _working_. Today was a terrible, lousy no-good day for Republicans in general and Trump in particular, I’m very relieved to say. Consider: [Republican senators exchanged many peevish words with McConnell and Pence](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/426896-gop-senators-read-pence-riot-act-before-shutdown-votes) at their luncheon meeting before the vote. It is the Republicans’ caucus falling apart, not the Democrats’. After the 2 failed votes today, McConnell was forced to invite Schumer for an evening discussion about a way forward, because 6 Republican senators crossed over to support the Democrats’ proposal – _sans wall_. McConnell has now assumed the I-must-hurry-and-catch-up-with-the-others-for-I-am-their-leader position. Trump did not even stir himself to call all those Republican senators bad names. Trump capitulated on the SOTU address and the worst nickname he could muster for Speaker Pelosi was… Nancy. She looks like the boss she is, and you can practically see Trump’s tail between his legs. No one is blaming the Democrats, and that is only getting worse for Republicans across the board – especially after the tone-deaf comments made by Wilbur Ross, Larry Kudlow, Lara Trump and others recently. Contrast this with [the impassioned speech made on the Senate floor today by Colorado Senator Michael Bennet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUD2AErqbwM) in response to Ted Cruz. Wowsa. Republicans have lost their messaging and they look like callous idiots. Trump and his administration’s “Let them eat cake,” attitude is causing support to weaken with his base faster than anything else we’ve seen to date. Why fuck with success? Things are unraveling fast tonight. That’s why. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/410 "2019-01-25T05:08:44Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > There has been no design work done on the wall. Shit-for-brains simply put it out to bid to contractors. If you haven’t read it yet, [Amy Patrick (a court-accept wall expert)](https://www.facebook.com/apatrick/posts/10100902776405671) has an excellent summary of just some of the issues with his “plan”, and projects that the cost could go well over $50 billion before you even \*start \*adding in yearly maintenance and personnel costs. Thanks for the link. Sending it on. Anyone with two brain cells to rub together can see what a colossally stupid idea the wall is. Nice to see an engineer weigh in on it. ---
**Author:** ![HelenGawn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@HelenGawn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HelenGawn)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/411 "2019-01-25T05:10:22Z")
Trump has heard the insult “nancy-boy” flung around and thinks he insulting Pelosi by calling her by her name. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/412 "2019-01-25T05:13:47Z")
> [@aurora\_maire](#): > > I just saw a clip of Trump saying this about what Wilbur Ross had said earlier today: > > > [@](#): > > > > He claimed that grocery stores would “work along” with furloughed employees because “they know the people” and have been “dealing with them for years.” > > > > “Local people know who they are, when they go for groceries and everything else,” Trump said of furloughed workers. “And I think what Wilbur was probably trying to say is that they will work along.” > > > > Trump added that banks, too, are “working along” with furloughed federal employees. > > > > “If you have mortgages, the mortgagees, the folks collecting the interest and all of those things, they work along. And that’s what happens in a time like this,” he said. > > Says the man who has never been in a grocery store. And had a personal banker. Kroger doesn’t give a shit who I am. The company that holds my mortgage has one office in another city. Jesus, could he be more out of touch? Every TV channel should play the clip over and over until even Trump’s fans see what he really thinks about the “real Americans”. > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-says-grocery-stores-banks-will-give-furloughed-workers-a-break-during-shutdown/2019/01/24/613b1f12-202c-11e9-9145-3f74070bbdb9\_story.html?noredirect=on&utm\_term=.edd059ff755f](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-says-grocery-stores-banks-will-give-furloughed-workers-a-break-during-shutdown/2019/01/24/613b1f12-202c-11e9-9145-3f74070bbdb9_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.edd059ff755f) So this is why Trump claims you need ID cards in grocery stores! ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/413 "2019-01-25T05:14:11Z")
> [@HelenGawn](#): > > Trump has heard the insult “nancy-boy” flung around and thinks he insulting Pelosi by calling her by her name. Um, what? There is no end to his stupidity, but link please. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/414 "2019-01-25T05:30:59Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > If you haven’t read it yet, [Amy Patrick (a court-accept wall expert)](https://www.facebook.com/apatrick/posts/10100902776405671) has an excellent summary of just some of the issues with his “plan”, and projects that the cost could go well over $50 billion before you even \*start \*adding in yearly maintenance and personnel costs. Ooh! I know her. She’s a personal friend. Not a wall expert _per se_ but a licensed Professional Engineer accepted as an expert civil engineer (which includes walls) in court. And yes, very smart and actually an expert, not that you really need to be to see that the ‘wall’ was impractical, not cost effective, and not likely to be effective at its purported goals. She was shocked the post went viral and never expected it to go much beyond her Facebook circle. She’s also gotten a lot of disgusting messages (predominantly, as you might expect, from white men) in response. She’s only shared a few of those, and they make you despair for humanity. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/415 "2019-01-25T05:37:45Z")
The existing border barriers are, if I am not mistaken, out in what would be the middle of nowhere if it weren’t an international boundary. That is a lot different than hoovering up half of Texas with Eminent Domain to build the most unwanted stretch of barrier in the US. If it is a “down payment” that is needed to end this impasse, what if it were $1bn to extend existing barriers, on the condition that no eminent domain is brought to bear? I hate to propose it, but if it is a compromise we need, and if the President absolutely positively has to get some wall built, how about we do it in the middle of nowhere? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/416 "2019-01-25T05:49:51Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Ooh! I know her. She’s a personal friend. Not a wall expert _per se_ but a licensed Professional Engineer accepted as an expert civil engineer (which includes walls) in court. > > And yes, very smart and actually an expert, not that you really need to be to see that the ‘wall’ was impractical, not cost effective, and not likely to be effective at its purported goals. She was shocked the post went viral and never expected it to go much beyond her Facebook circle. > > She’s also gotten a lot of disgusting messages (predominantly, as you might expect, from white men) in response. She’s only shared a few of those, and they make you despair for humanity. Tell her to keep up the good work. I just sent that link to my Colorado Senators. Hope she doesn’t get unwanted attention, but we need more like her. (white guy, 58 years old. Once an aspiring mechanical engineer that went into computers and GIS instead. Those that refuse facts are welcome to have those facts bite them in the ass. ~ enipla) ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/417 "2019-01-25T06:01:27Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > The existing border barriers are, if I am not mistaken, out in what would be the middle of nowhere if it weren’t an international boundary. That is a lot different than hoovering up half of Texas with Eminent Domain to build the most unwanted stretch of barrier in the US. > > If it is a “down payment” that is needed to end this impasse, what if it were $1bn to extend existing barriers, on the condition that no eminent domain is brought to bear? I hate to propose it, but if it is a compromise we need, and if the President absolutely positively has to get some wall built, how about we do it in the middle of nowhere? “It’s in the middle of nowhere” is a bit crass, dontcha think? A feasibility/needs assessment, environmental impact study. Well, Ok. Trump has no fucking idea what he is even proposing, what it’s to be made of or where it will go. He just wants to put his name on something. We should not negotiate with con-men and thieves. Full Stop. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/418 "2019-01-25T06:12:56Z")
One wonders if Trump’s stubborness on the Wall might be because he made some promises to bent-nose fellows in “the construction bidness”\*. Or if he just expects to enrich himself by operating through shell companies to receive the payments for construction. I’m not completely serious about this proposal, but I’d bet whatever cash I’ve got in my pocket that it’s not _just_ trying to fulfill a campaign promise/appease his base that’s motivating his obsession. 'Course, it might just be his racism… \*i.e. “the mob”- whether American, Russian, or whatever. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/419 "2019-01-25T06:59:22Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > One wonders if Trump’s stubborness on the Wall might be because he made some promises to bent-nose fellows in “the construction bidness”\*. Or if he just expects to enrich himself by operating through shell companies to receive the payments for construction. > > I’m not completely serious about this proposal, but I’d bet whatever cash I’ve got in my pocket that it’s not _just_ trying to fulfill a campaign promise/appease his base that’s motivating his obsession. > > 'Course, it might just be his racism… > > \*i.e. “the mob”- whether American, Russian, or whatever. I think his lawyers have clued him in on the best way to stay out of prison is to remain president. So he will give his followers a bone, get a photo op, and retain some votes. ---
**Author:** ![Baal\_Houtham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baal_houtham/32/13604_2.png) [@Baal\_Houtham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baal_Houtham)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2019, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/420 "2019-01-25T07:16:25Z")
> [@Aspenglow](#): > > Um, because _why_? What Democrats are doing is _working_. Today was a terrible, lousy no-good day for Republicans in general and Trump in particular, I’m very relieved to say. Consider: > > [Republican senators exchanged many peevish words with McConnell and Pence](https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/426896-gop-senators-read-pence-riot-act-before-shutdown-votes) at their luncheon meeting before the vote. It is the Republicans’ caucus falling apart, not the Democrats’. > > After the 2 failed votes today, McConnell was forced to invite Schumer for an evening discussion about a way forward, because 6 Republican senators crossed over to support the Democrats’ proposal – _sans wall_. McConnell has now assumed the I-must-hurry-and-catch-up-with-the-others-for-I-am-their-leader position. > > Trump did not even stir himself to call all those Republican senators bad names. > > Trump capitulated on the SOTU address and the worst nickname he could muster for Speaker Pelosi was… Nancy. She looks like the boss she is, and you can practically see Trump’s tail between his legs. > > No one is blaming the Democrats, and that is only getting worse for Republicans across the board – especially after the tone-deaf comments made by Wilbur Ross, Larry Kudlow, Lara Trump and others recently. Contrast this with [the impassioned speech made on the Senate floor today by Colorado Senator Michael Bennet](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UUD2AErqbwM) in response to Ted Cruz. Wowsa. > > Republicans have lost their messaging and they look like callous idiots. Trump and his administration’s “Let them eat cake,” attitude is causing support to weaken with his base faster than anything else we’ve seen to date. > > Why fuck with success? Things are unraveling fast tonight. That’s why. > [@enipla](#): > > “It’s in the middle of nowhere” is a bit crass, dontcha think? > > A feasibility/needs assessment, environmental impact study. Well, Ok. Trump has no fucking idea what he is even proposing, what it’s to be made of or where it will go. He just wants to put his name on something. > > We should not negotiate with con-men and thieves. Full Stop. Yeah this stuff. Trying to act like adults has not worked for the Dems for the past three (or more) years. Trump’s poll numbers are finally falling again. He’s looking like an ineffectual idiot. The Dems should NOT help him look like an effectual idiot. The Republicans needs to blink this time. Cross your fingers and hope Trumps numbers keep going down. The numbers are the lowest they’ve been in a year. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577.md?page=20) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577.md?page=22)