# Trump's Shutdown **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2019, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577 "2019-01-11T06:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/101 "2019-01-13T09:00:51Z")
According to Matt Glassman’s Twitter feed, though, there’s an element of truth in **Flyer** ’s first post. McConnell technically can’t stop a bill from being brought up with enough votes. The deference to him is more custom than actual rule. Glassman went over this with the bill to protect Mueller’s job last year. > > > Nate Silver @NateSilver538 ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/102 "2019-01-13T13:02:30Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > … the EPA Superfund sites were shutting down … > > How long will the American people put up with the lack of services we are all about to experience? For the French Revolution, a majority of French people were literally starving. Other revolutions generally occurred when a majority had only subsistence-level wages and served an unelected autocracy. In the U.S.A. OTOH, only a smallish minority is actually going hungry. A still-large middle-class voted for the autocrat, owns smart-phones for their amusement, and owns … guns. If people in ghettos or drinking unsafe water stage riots, expect Trump (abetted by McConnell) to amuse himself by ordering soldiers to shoot at black and brown people. ```auto [quote="WillFarnaby, post:34, topic:827577"] There would be a brief disturbance, but the private sector is capable of keeping planes safe in the air. They already do 99.9% of that job as designers, manufacturers and maintenance providers. [/QUOTE] Wrong; and wrong. The other day in another thread you posted two sentences back-to-back that were both true and useful! I was amazed; I should have framed it. [off-topic] @ **Will** — Have you ever decided whether the police in Farnabytopia torture suspects? Or don't exist at all? We don't expect you to dot every I and cross every T in your summaries of Farnabylosophy, but there seems to be a big gap between two possible roles for police. *But sincere thanks for linking to Rothbard's "solution" to external costs.* **Wow!** Where did he get his PhD? Trump University? ``` ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/103 "2019-01-13T14:12:35Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Ah, yes. The thread wouldn’t be complete without some liberal frothing at the mouth because somebody refused to prostrate himself to the god of “Democracy.” > > Democracy is nothing more than mob rule covered with a veneer of civilization. > > Or, as somebody else so aptly put it, “Democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner.” I think I’ll have troll for dinner. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/104 "2019-01-13T14:17:19Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You are invited to clearly state preferred alternative, sir, if you please. I suspect may involve putting God in charge. That is, “our” God. That is, a very specific version of “our” God. That is, his extremely narrow interpretation of a very specific version of “our” God who approves of the things he likes, prohibits the things he doesn’t, and hates the same people he hates. Thus, everybody wins! ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/105 "2019-01-13T14:38:44Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > My God, man, pull your head out of the sand! It’s perpetually amazing to me how some conservatives are seemingly genetically engineered to regard any event beyond the end of their own noses as, well… as NOT happening at all. Mitch McConnell is in hiding and is not doing his job. Take off the Republican blinders, Bud, and look around at what’s going on. He’s not entirely wrong, though. The Framers of the Constitution, this Biblical guide of Enlightenment era thought that we refer to whenever we can’t solve the political problems of our time, created a government with the understanding that the legislative process could be obstructed. The Framers were concerned with mob rule, and deliberately made our political institutions more resistant to popular passions. In the intervening 2 centuries, we’ve become a more inclusive society, a fairer society, and we’ve observed in examples such as the late Weimar Republic how obstruction can lead to the very tyranny the Framers from too much democracy. McConnell’s relentless obstruction serves to undermine the remaining faith people have in our democracy to deliver the goods on matters such as immigration, healthcare, and our general welfare. We’re never more than a crisis away from a radical solution to this problem. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/106 "2019-01-13T15:52:58Z")
[Stagecraft won’t win shutdown battle for Trump](https://www.apnews.com/bb78c70cbe3345e7b77946d004e9dff3) > [@](#): > > President Donald Trump, who has long put a premium on stagecraft, is discovering he cannot resolve the partial government shutdown simply by putting on a show. > [@](#): > > Trump defended his approach Saturday, telling critics on Twitter that “there’s almost nobody in the W.H. but me, and I do have a plan on the Shutdown.” During a telephone interview with a Fox News Channel host later that night, Trump insisted that he hadn’t “left the White House in months” and he called on Democrats to come to the table. The Texas trip was two days earlier. The article is a fantastic summary of events leading up to the shutdown and it also examines other times that Trump has tried to use _zazz_ to win points. It winds up by noting: > [@](#): > > Trump’s public posturing has moved the needle at times. His administration’s push helped get a tax overhaul over the finish line. His tariffs fight with China has brought both sides to the negotiating table. > > Still, as Trump tries to find a way out of the shutdown impasse, Republican consultant Rick Tyler argued that some of the president’s ploys may be getting stale. > > “There’s a reason the circus comes to town for a week,” he said. “He’s worn out his act.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/107 "2019-01-13T15:58:56Z")
[This article contains some disturbing information](https://www.apnews.com/66b50739f4b84063a2ff56dff3156712): > [@](#): > > All administrations get some leeway to choose which services to freeze and which to maintain when a budget standoff in Washington forces some agencies to shutter. But in the selective reopening of offices, experts say they see a willingness to cut corners, scrap prior plans and wade into legally dubious territory to mitigate the pain. Some noted the choices seem targeted at shielding the Republican-leaning voters whom Trump and his party need to stick with them. > [@](#): > > Russell T. Vought, deputy director of the Office of Management and Budget, said the overarching message from Trump has been “to make this shutdown as painless as possible, consistent with the law.” > > “We have built on past efforts within this administration not to have the shutdown be used to be weaponized against the American people,” he said. > > Others say such a strategy suggests a lack of urgency and a willingness to let the political impasse in Washington drag on indefinitely. > [@](#): > > “The strategy seems to be to keep the shutdown in place, not worry about the effect on employees and furloughed people and contractors, but where the public might be annoyed, give a little,” said Alice Rivlin, who led OMB during the 21-day shutdown in 1996, the previous recordholder for the longest in history. > > That’s a clear difference between then and now, Rivlin said. > > “We weren’t trying to make it better. We were trying to emphasize the pain so it would be over,” she said. “We wanted it to end. I’m not convinced the Trump administration does.” ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/108 "2019-01-13T17:23:45Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > :smack: D’Oh! > > Take two: > > You are invited to clearly state _your_ preferred alternative, sir, if you please. I would hazard a guess that for these shit-heads, their preferred alternative is a kleptocracy, with themselves as the recipients of the money that is stripped from the country. They like having an authoritarian strong-man in charge, and think that the role of this dictator is to punish those that they do not like. Their motto is “The weak are meat and the strong do eat” ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/109 "2019-01-13T18:07:14Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You are invited to clearly state preferred alternative, sir, if you please. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I suspect may involve putting God in charge. > > That is, “our” God. > That is, a very specific version of “our” God. > That is, his extremely narrow interpretation of a very specific version of “our” God who approves of the things he likes, prohibits the things he doesn’t, and hates the same people he hates. > > Thus, everybody wins! > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would hazard a guess that for these shit-heads, their preferred alternative is a kleptocracy, with themselves as the recipients of the money that is stripped from the country. They like having an authoritarian strong-man in charge, and think that the role of this dictator is to punish those that they do not like. > > Their motto is “The weak are meat and the strong do eat” Many thanks to both of you. I suspect you’re on target, but if it’s not too much trouble, I’d prefer to let Mr. **Flyer** ’s own words convict him of, well, whatever shitheadedness he espouses. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/110 "2019-01-13T21:35:07Z")
> [@ThelmaLou](#): > > My God, man, pull your head out of the sand! It’s perpetually amazing to me how some conservatives are seemingly genetically engineered to regard any event beyond the end of their own noses as, well… as NOT happening at all. Mitch McConnell is in hiding and is not doing his job. Take off the Republican blinders, Bud, and look around at what’s going on. It’s not the sand where he’s firmly inserted his cranium. > [@septimus](#): > > In the U.S.A. OTOH, only a smallish minority is actually going hungry. A still-large middle-class voted for the autocrat, owns smart-phones for their amusement, and owns … guns. If people in ghettos or drinking unsafe water stage riots, expect Trump (abetted by McConnell) to amuse himself by ordering soldiers to shoot at black and brown people. The twerp has already told soldiers to shoot brown people. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/111 "2019-01-13T21:48:04Z")
Ted Cruz was clearly calling this the Schumer Shutdown today on Meet The Press. He must not have seen Trump’s brilliant meeting/photo op where he believed he was going to intimidate Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/112 "2019-01-13T21:57:54Z")
> [@bobot](#): > > Ted Cruz was clearly calling this the Schumer Shutdown today on Meet The Press. He must not have seen Trump’s brilliant meeting/photo op where he believed he was going to intimidate Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi. Ted knows that now is the time to lie, lie and lie again. Lie big and lie often. Of course Trump said very clearly that he would own the shutdown. Matters not to Ted and his ilk. They will simply lie about Trump’s words that were recorded and widely broadcasted. “Never happened”, Cruz will be happy to look straight into the camera and declare. It simply cannot occur to a basically honest Republican that one of their leaders would lie straight to their faces so egregiously. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/113 "2019-01-13T23:07:57Z")
Occur to a _what_, now? ---
**Author:** ![MindsEye\_Watering](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mindseye_watering/32/3619_2.png) [@MindsEye\_Watering](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MindsEye_Watering)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/114 "2019-01-13T23:45:45Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > It simply cannot occur to a **basically honest Republican** that one of their leaders would lie straight to their faces so egregiously. Those have been obsolete and out of production for a very long time. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/115 "2019-01-14T00:04:10Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Ah, yes. The thread wouldn’t be complete without some liberal frothing at the mouth because somebody refused to prostrate himself to the god of “Democracy.” > > Democracy is nothing more than mob rule covered with a veneer of civilization. > > Or, as somebody else so aptly put it, “Democracy is two wolves and one sheep voting on what to have for dinner.” Which differs from what is going on now in what way? Are you incapable of analyzing a situation, or are you falling back on buzzwords for fear of what you can see? Donald Trump is a faux-populist demagogue, not someone bred to rule. He is interfering in the workaday running of the government, not replacing the mob with an aristocracy. Trump is not a poster child for the good an anti-democratic state can do, but for the functional failure of a democratic republic when handed over to a stupid peasant. If you were really anti-democratic but gave a flying fig about this country, you’d be backing the “Deep State” against this clown. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/116 "2019-01-14T05:02:50Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > You are invited to clearly state _your_ preferred alternative, sir, if you please. > [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I suspect may involve putting God in charge. > > That is, “our” God. > That is, a very specific version of “our” God. > That is, his extremely narrow interpretation of a very specific version of “our” God who approves of the things he likes, prohibits the things he doesn’t, and hates the same people he hates. > > Thus, everybody wins! > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I would hazard a guess that for these shit-heads, their preferred alternative is a kleptocracy, with themselves as the recipients of the money that is stripped from the country. They like having an authoritarian strong-man in charge, and think that the role of this dictator is to punish those that they do not like. > > Their motto is “The weak are meat and the strong do eat” What I want is the best form of government ever devised; the form that the Founders gave to us; a REPUBLIC. > [@](#): > > The deliberations of the Constitutional Convention of 1787 were held in strict secrecy. Consequently, anxious citizens gathered outside Independence Hall when the proceedings ended in order to learn what had been produced behind closed doors. The answer was provided immediately. A Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, “Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?” With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, “A republic, if you can keep it.” > **[“A Republic, if You Can Keep It”](https://thenewamerican.com/print/a-republic-if-you-can-keep-it/)** > > Knowing that a democracy is a government of men in which the tyranny of the majority rules, America’s Founding Fathers wisely created a republic — a government ruled by law. ... A republic is a melding of other forms of government, taking what is good from each one, without any of the bad parts. From monarchy, it takes the idea of of a central authority figure–thus, we have the Presidency. From oligarchy, it takes the idea that sometimes many heads working together are better than one–thus, the Congress. From democracy, it takes the idea of direct participation in government–thus, voting; petition of the government; the right of protest; etc. But in a democracy, majority rule is the only rule. A republic is careful to protect the rights of the minority–thus, the Senate filibuster; a super-majority for amending the Constitution; the Bill of Rights; the Electoral College; etc. If this country were the democracy that you people are so eager to have, then (for example) the “progress” that has been made in recent years allowing gay marriage could be stripped away by a simple majority vote of the people. Do you **really** want that? ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/117 "2019-01-14T05:05:42Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Donald Trump is a faux-populist demagogue, not someone bred to rule. “Bred to rule,” huh? Well, since you so clearly have an aristocratic world-view, why don’t you move to a country where those rules still apply? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/118 "2019-01-14T05:07:31Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > “Bred to rule,” huh? > > Well, since you so clearly have an aristocratic world-view, why don’t you move to a country where those rules still apply? Says the one bred to be ruled over. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/119 "2019-01-14T05:15:36Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > What I want is the best form of government ever devised; the form that the Founders gave to us; a REPUBLIC. > [https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/7631-a-republic-if-you-can-keep-it](https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/7631-a-republic-if-you-can-keep-it) > > A republic is a melding of other forms of government, taking what is good from each one, without any of the bad parts. From monarchy, it takes the idea of of a central authority figure–thus, we have the Presidency. From oligarchy, it takes the idea that sometimes many heads working together are better than one–thus, the Congress. From democracy, it takes the idea of direct participation in government–thus, voting; petition of the government; the right of protest; etc. > > But in a democracy, majority rule is the only rule. A republic is careful to protect the rights of the minority–thus, the Senate filibuster; a super-majority for amending the Constitution; the Bill of Rights; the Electoral College; etc. If this country were the democracy that you people are so eager to have, then (for example) the “progress” that has been made in recent years allowing gay marriage could be stripped away by a simple majority vote of the people. > > Do you **really** want that? Holy fuck you’re stupid. Delusional too. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 6:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/120 "2019-01-14T06:44:47Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > What I want is the best form of government ever devised; the form that the Founders gave to us; a REPUBLIC. Oh Jesus Christ, you’re one of THOSE pedantic twatwaffles. Enjoy your REPUBLIC, and enjoy your Strong Man Leader who keep you safe in your bed at night from the scary people who are out to get you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577.md?page=7)