# Trump's Shutdown **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2019, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577 "2019-01-11T06:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 8:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/121 "2019-01-14T08:27:59Z")
Besides all this, the simple fact is that Donald Trump doesn’t want to govern a republic, and I don’t see any evidence whatsoever that he’ll do anything but move the country away from that kind of system anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 9:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/122 "2019-01-14T09:51:00Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > What I want is the best form of government ever devised; the form that the Founders gave to us; a REPUBLIC. > [https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/7631-a-republic-if-you-can-keep-it](https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/constitution/item/7631-a-republic-if-you-can-keep-it) > > A republic is a melding of other forms of government, taking what is good from each one, without any of the bad parts. From monarchy, it takes the idea of of a central authority figure–thus, we have the Presidency. From oligarchy, it takes the idea that sometimes many heads working together are better than one–thus, the Congress. From democracy, it takes the idea of direct participation in government–thus, voting; petition of the government; the right of protest; etc. > > But in a democracy, majority rule is the only rule. A republic is careful to protect the rights of the minority–thus, the Senate filibuster; a super-majority for amending the Constitution; the Bill of Rights; the Electoral College; etc. If this country were the democracy that you people are so eager to have, then (for example) the “progress” that has been made in recent years allowing gay marriage could be stripped away by a simple majority vote of the people. > > Do you **really** want that? Ladies and gentlemen, this is Exhibit A why you should not drink bleach. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/123 "2019-01-14T12:25:22Z")
I just assume Flyer didn’t find the Tide Pod Challenge to be challenging enough. Seriously, invoking “Republic” vs “Democracy” ? The two concepts aren’t contradictory; a nation could easily be either, neither or both. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/124 "2019-01-14T13:02:42Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > They’ll put up with it for awhile. The functions that are actually services such as in the air travel sector can be done privately. bwuh? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha > [@JohnT](#): > > Not if the “private” company isn’t being paid, they’re not. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Why wouldn’t they get paid? Everyone else who supplies a service that satisfies consumers’ desires gets paid. Except for government workers - who are are currently STILL providing that service, but not getting paid. Do you need someone to formally introduce you to reality? > [@carnivorousplant](#): > > There was an air controller strike during the Reagan administration. I wondered at the time why he didn’t use military aircraft controllers. He did. There weren’t enough to make up the difference. We’ve actually mentioned this multiple times in other threads. Someone else in this thread mentioned the ten years it took to restore full capacity after that mess. > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > There would be a brief disturbance, but the private sector is capable of keeping planes safe in the air. They already do 99.9% of that job as designers, manufacturers and maintenance providers. Designing, manufacturing, and maintaining are entirely different skill sets than air traffic control. You can no more take a designer and park them in a control tower and expect a good result than you can expect a plumber without any additional training to correctly re-wire the electrical system in your house. It takes three years to train an air traffic controller for entry level positions. There is exactly one place in this country with the training facilities - and it’s closed due to the government shut down. Where, exactly, are these private sector controllers supposed to come from? Are we supposed to import them or something? Oh, wait… immigration is also closed… > [@CaptMurdock](#): > > Any idea of how many mid-air collisions and fatal crashes might happen during this “brief disturbance”? What would, in your humble opinion, be can acceptable amount of fatalities? The outcome is more likely to be a drastic reduction in air travel, possibly on that required for medical emergencies and law enforcement, than flaming wreckage falling out of the sky. I’m not sure people would be any happier with the cessation of civil aviation in the US, either. > [@JohnT](#): > > Now the unpaid Secret Service can now sit in their Uber’s at 3 in the morning reading how the man they can die for, the man holding their paychecks, is being investigated by the FBI for being a Russian agent _as President_. The secret service isn’t getting paid either. Wow, great move - don’t pay your bodyguards. That can’t possibly end badly, could it…? > [@Flyer](#): > > In reality, a large part of government’s PROPER role is to exercise discretion as to when to act and when to not act. There are many times and situations when **not** acting is what government is supposed to do. Is not paying people for the work they do part of that “proper role”? > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Oh Jesus Christ, you’re one of THOSE pedantic twatwaffles. I just want to say I really like your neologism “twatwaffles” and intend to use it where I can going forward. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/125 "2019-01-14T13:11:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [This article contains some disturbing information](https://www.apnews.com/66b50739f4b84063a2ff56dff3156712): By doing this, he increases the likelihood of making the shutdown’s impact - for everyone - much, much worse. There are too many little things that the government does - he can try to pick and choose who gets hurt by the shutdown but there will be things that he overlooks. Ultimately, the impact of having 800,000 incomes disrupted and a destabilized federal workforce will be the most serious one. That being said, Trump and the Republicans have always wanted to destabilize the federal government. As corrupt as they are, it works to their advantage. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/126 "2019-01-14T13:21:44Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > I’d sure hate to get one of these: [Federal workers get $0 pay stubs as shutdown drags on](https://apnews.com/5d95c567185f4592b4a6e59fa9317f7c). I’ve had a sudden thought. Zero out the paychecks for all the MAGAts who voted for Trump\* and when the $5-billion is collected, then build the wall. Not to worry – their Dear Leader will compensate them when the check from Mexico arrives. > [@BobLibDem](#): > > Ah, the wonderful world of Libertaria where people magically spring up and do all what governments elsewhere do for a fraction of the cost. There are good reasons why no libertarian governments have ever existed. When I was more active politically I noticed that no matter what position someone might have, there would be a another person with (more or less) that same position who they wish would shut up and go away. **WF** is mine. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > It hurts people, and for right wingers that is the one and only thing they care about. Hurting as many people as possible, as often as possible, as much as possible. Even if it means collateral damage and friendly fire. \*Yeah, yeah, I know, secret ballot and all that. We’ll get the data from the NSA. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2019, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/127 "2019-01-14T13:28:34Z")
I’d like to add something: speaking as a freelancer, while customer satisfaction is indeed something I constantly strive for, I get paid when I _fulfill their requirements_, not when I “satisfy their desires”. Some of those motherfuckers are NEVER satisfied. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/128 "2019-01-15T00:50:19Z")
[Yes, he really said that](https://www.apnews.com/a1a904065f30480b8f451ddea7b5fce3). But somehow it still won’t be his fault, I’m sure. In related news: [the # of TSA screeners just plain old not showing up for work has soared](https://www.apnews.com/a50e00cb683b4b9697c1c957bae39cd2): > [@](#): > > No-shows among screeners jumped Sunday and again Monday, when the Transportation Security Administration reported a national absence rate of 7.6 percent compared with 3.2 percent on a comparable day a year ago. Monday marked the first business day after screeners did not receive a paycheck for the first time since the shutdown began. > > At Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, the world’s busiest, some passengers waited more than an hour to get through checkpoints. The airport reported the long lines on its website Monday morning, showing the hour-plus waits at all three checkpoints in the domestic terminal. > > “It’s chaos out here,” passenger Vincent Smith said as he stood in a line that snaked through the Atlanta airport’s atrium and baggage claim areas. “This line, I’ve been here about 15 minutes and it has moved 2 feet.” ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/129 "2019-01-15T02:58:16Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > [Yes, he really said that](https://www.apnews.com/a1a904065f30480b8f451ddea7b5fce3). But somehow it still won’t be his fault, I’m sure. > > In related news: [the # of TSA screeners just plain old not showing up for work has soared](https://www.apnews.com/a50e00cb683b4b9697c1c957bae39cd2): TSA workers are starting to feel a little betrayed and pissed off, dare I say? I wish more ordinary Americans felt that way. As for those shitkicking farmers who still support the president despite the fact he’s sending many of them to their graves, to hell with them. I used to have sympathy for the American farmer, but these are the same people who voted for Steve King and the same ones who voted for Trump and his bashing and scapegoating of illegal aliens. And the shit of it is, THEY’RE THE ONES WHO DEPEND ON MIGRANTS - ILLEGAL, LEGAL, AND OTHERWISE - MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE. It’s these fucking pigheaded, goat-fucking, Bible waving, shit kickers who’ve not just fucked all of us by voting for a Russian puppet, they’re too goddamn dumb to realize they’re screwing themselves. Seriously, screw them: buy Canadian produce and Aussie beef from now on. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/130 "2019-01-15T06:23:10Z")
The federal judiciary is on the verge of near-collapse; they’re managed to keep going so far by repurposing court fees to pay the essential staff – clerks, court reporters, court officers, etc. – but the money’s about to run out; the court reporters I proofread for will see their last paycheck on the 25th. Criminal cases will be prioritized but will still be affected; civil litigation will likely grind pretty much to a halt. A goodly number of very large, very powerful corporations will not be happy about this. Meanwhile, the families of Coast Guard men and women – you know, the people who protect our maritime borders? – are being told to hold yard sales to feed their families since they’re already not being pad. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/131 "2019-01-15T07:10:37Z")
> [@asahi](#): > > TSA workers are starting to feel a little betrayed and pissed off, dare I say? > > I wish more ordinary Americans felt that way. > > As for those shitkicking farmers who still support the president despite the fact he’s sending many of them to their graves, to hell with them. I used to have sympathy for the American farmer, but these are the same people who voted for Steve King and the same ones who voted for Trump and his bashing and scapegoating of illegal aliens. And the shit of it is, THEY’RE THE ONES WHO DEPEND ON MIGRANTS - ILLEGAL, LEGAL, AND OTHERWISE - MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE. It’s these fucking pigheaded, goat-fucking, Bible waving, shit kickers who’ve not just fucked all of us by voting for a Russian puppet, they’re too goddamn dumb to realize they’re screwing themselves. > > Seriously, screw them: buy Canadian produce and Aussie beef from now on. No, **asahi**. I think your response of emotive retribution is plain wrong. If we ever get the pubbies where we want them politically, we should approach them with compassionate paternalism. I know there will be a will to “stick it to 'em.” Resist that. Try to appreciate that the credulous, easily led masses have been taken for a ride. They have been used and abused for the purposes of the wealthy, and now probably for the foreign wealthy. They have been carefully taught to be churlish, and angry, and difficult, and impenetrable. They are kind of victims. “Compassionate paternalism” sounds a little condescending, I know. But let’s face it- conservatives are going to be the Educated Man’s Burden going forward, if we are to salvage the republic at all. Turning the population against ourselves only serves the interests of our adversaries. If one group is more informed, more moral, more able, more clear-eyed, well then that group has to _lead_, and that is not going to involve purposefully stoking more divisions but rather finding ways to heal the rifts. If one group is better, they will have to make sacrifices to make the other group whole, in the service of the cause of unity. E pluribus unum, remember? Please quit being so divisive and recognize that enemies, foreign and domestic, seek to divide our country and destroy our government. They have recruited our fellow citizens. We need to recruit them back, for the real American cause. Americans are not our own enemies, not naturally, not at our best. Let’s rise above. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/132 "2019-01-15T07:35:13Z")
I read somewhere (I forget where) that some Trump official implied that this whole thing would show the nation how little they needed large portions of government, and that a lot of positions lost now would never return…? I’m not sure that’d turn out the way they think, or that they weren’t just scrambling to make up an ex post facto justification. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 9:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/133 "2019-01-15T09:07:59Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I read somewhere (I forget where) that some Trump official implied that this whole thing would show the nation how little they needed large portions of government, and that a lot of positions lost now would never return…? > > I’m not sure that’d turn out the way they think, or that they weren’t just scrambling to make up an ex post facto justification. I saw that also. The funny thing is of course you don’t need so many people to do the job when the job’s not getting done because of no funding for the bloody job! ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/134 "2019-01-15T11:23:06Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Which differs from what is going on now in what way? Are you incapable of analyzing a situation, or are you falling back on buzzwords for fear of what you can see? > > Donald Trump is a faux-populist demagogue, not someone bred to rule. He is interfering in the workaday running of the government, not replacing the mob with an aristocracy. Trump is not a poster child for the good an anti-democratic state can do, but for the functional failure of a democratic republic when handed over to a stupid peasant. > > If you were really anti-democratic but gave a flying fig about this country, you’d be backing the “Deep State” against this clown. Yes the US secret police failed miserably in preventing Trump from gaining power. They are shadows of their Cold War selves. Perhaps decades from now the feckless anti-Trump operations will be revealed to the public similar to how the Church Committee unearthed all that stuff back in the day. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/135 "2019-01-15T11:29:54Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I read somewhere (I forget where) that some Trump official implied that this whole thing would show the nation how little they needed large portions of government, and that a lot of positions lost now would never return…? Honestly, that was something that occurred to me from the get go. This is Trump trying corporate downsizing on the Federal government. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/136 "2019-01-15T11:29:56Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > The federal judiciary is on the verge of near-collapse; they’re managed to keep going so far by repurposing court fees to pay the essential staff – clerks, court reporters, court officers, etc. – but the money’s about to run out; the court reporters I proofread for will see their last paycheck on the 25th. Criminal cases will be prioritized but will still be affected; civil litigation will likely grind pretty much to a halt. A goodly number of very large, very powerful corporations will not be happy about this. > > Meanwhile, the families of Coast Guard men and women – you know, the people who protect our maritime borders? – are being told to hold yard sales to feed their families since they’re already not being pad. Wow this partial shutdown is better than I ever imagined. A good opportunity for private arbitration to take away even more service provision from government. They have already taken quite a bit. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/137 "2019-01-15T11:33:08Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > No, **asahi**. I think your response of emotive retribution is plain wrong. If we ever get the pubbies where we want them politically, we should approach them with compassionate paternalism. > > I know there will be a will to “stick it to 'em.” Resist that. Try to appreciate that the credulous, easily led masses have been taken for a ride. They have been used and abused for the purposes of the wealthy, and now probably for the foreign wealthy. They have been carefully taught to be churlish, and angry, and difficult, and impenetrable. They are kind of victims. > > “Compassionate paternalism” sounds a little condescending, I know. But let’s face it- conservatives are going to be the Educated Man’s Burden going forward, if we are to salvage the republic at all. Turning the population against ourselves only serves the interests of our adversaries. If one group is more informed, more moral, more able, more clear-eyed, well then that group has to _lead_, and that is not going to involve purposefully stoking more divisions but rather finding ways to heal the rifts. If one group is better, they will have to make sacrifices to make the other group whole, in the service of the cause of unity. E pluribus unum, remember? > > Please quit being so divisive and recognize that enemies, foreign and domestic, seek to divide our country and destroy our government. They have recruited our fellow citizens. We need to recruit them back, for the real American cause. Americans are not our own enemies, not naturally, not at our best. Let’s rise above. This sounds like a cult. Do you have ritual recitations of pledges by children, symbols, and pageantry? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/138 "2019-01-15T11:36:19Z")
^Fucking sociopathic scumbag In other news, the IRS is seizing assets automatically, but there’s nobody on hand to allow for disputes or challenges to those seizures. > **[Shuttered IRS Is Sending Automated Warnings of Asset Seizures, With Nobody to...](https://theintercept.com/2019/01/14/irs-shutdown-federal-government-shut-down-irs-asset-seizures/)** > > Some parts of government, such as the IRS, are on autopilot — and are headed in the wrong direction. > [@](#): > > It’s unclear to Caddel whether any of the skeleton crew still working at the IRS is involved in his case. Under the IRS’s shutdown contingency plan, activities “necessary for the protection of government property,” which includes seizure cases, are excepted from the shutdown. That means that an IRS agent who is not furloughed could legally seize Caddel’s business assets as soon as the 30-day clock triggered by the notification expires on January 23. > > While the IRS recently announced that it would process tax refunds as filing season gets underway, customer service lines are down, as is the Taxpayer Advocate Service, one option for taxpayers contesting seizures. The U.S. Tax Court, a venue for disputes, has closed, and walk-in taxpayer assistance centers are also shuttered. Caddel and others in his situation could send a certified letter to the IRS asking to stop the immediate seizure, formally confirming his contesting of the situation. But he’d have to hope that the right person receives it in time. > > Since the shutdown, Caddel has not been able to reach anyone to contest his case. “This is the one moment in our business life when we want to talk to the IRS,” he said. Caddel added that the issue would not be fatal to Mr. Holmes Bakehouse, but still significant. “With small business, cash flow is vital. We’d be able to make the payment, but it definitely would be super impactful to us.” But for the super rich, the government has no problem allocating funding: > **[A Shutdown for the 99 Percent, Concierge Government for the 1 Percent](https://theintercept.com/2019/01/14/government-shutdown-fema/)** > > Powerful real-estate interests successfully lobbied to avoid the consequences of the government shutdown, while American workers go without pay. > [@](#): > > Over Christmas, the shutdown threatened to stop the Federal Emergency Management Agency, or FEMA, from issuing flood insurance certificates. According to federal law, FEMA must provide flood insurance certifications before banks may issue federally backed mortgages to prospective homeowners living in federally designated floodplains — even in areas that FEMA has determined should not be built on due to high risk of flooding. The National Flood Insurance Program of 1968 ensures that FEMA has the ability to issue and pay out claims for the insurance. > > Without the certificates, roughly 40,000 closings a month would be at risk, resulting in millions in lost revenue for banks and mortgage companies. So it came as no surprise when interest groups successfully lobbied a bipartisan congressional cohort to temporarily reauthorize the NFIP through May on the eve of the shutdown. The stopgap bill was signed into law by Trump on December 21, hours before the federal government shuttered. > > […] > > Once the rage of the business sector — and Congress — was made clear to the White House, the administration ordered FEMA to resume issuing the certificates. “Upon realizing the trouble they were in — especially with Republicans — they back tracked pretty quickly,” Stephen Ellis, executive vice president for government watchdog group Taxpayers for Common Sense, told The Intercept in an email. Business as usual - the little guy gets fucked, but people with lots of power and money can twist a few arms and get things done. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/139 "2019-01-15T11:49:59Z")
I don’t think you are drawing the right conclusions from those news items. Utter confusion abounds. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/140 "2019-01-15T11:54:50Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > conservatives are going to be the Educated Man’s Burden going forward Pay no attention to **WF** – I am so stealing this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577.md?page=8)