# Trump's Shutdown **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 11, 2019, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577 "2019-01-11T06:18:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/141 "2019-01-15T11:59:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > I don’t think you are drawing the right conclusions from those news items. Utter confusion abounds. Stupid sociopathic scumbag says what? ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/142 "2019-01-15T12:50:53Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > This sounds like a cult. Do you have ritual recitations of pledges by children, symbols, and pageantry? Yes. The Pledge of Allegiance The National Anthem The Oath of Citizenship The American Flag Yankee Doodle Dandy (1942) … and more! ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/143 "2019-01-15T14:07:51Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > This sounds like a cult. Do you have ritual recitations of pledges by children, symbols, and pageantry? Well, I guess when your philosophy is, “Burn it all down! Self-government is for chumps!”, then a message of compassion, treating people well and helping people with problems instead of condemning them might seem cultish. Wtf pissed you off so much that you basically side with the Russians in wanting to destabilize the USA? ---
**Author:** ![ThelmaLou](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thelmalou/32/390_2.png) [@ThelmaLou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ThelmaLou)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/144 "2019-01-15T15:13:53Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > I read somewhere (I forget where) that some Trump official implied that this whole thing would show the nation how little they needed large portions of government, and that a lot of positions lost now would never return…? > > I’m not sure that’d turn out the way they think, or that they weren’t just scrambling to make up an ex post facto justification. > [@Monty](#): > > I saw that also. The funny thing is of course you don’t need so many people to do the job when the job’s not getting done because of no funding for the bloody job! > [@Broomstick](#): > > Honestly, that was something that occurred to me from the get go. This is Trump trying corporate downsizing on the Federal government. You read it here: > [@Stupid Republican idea of the day](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/stupid-republican-idea-of-the-day/490897/40116): > > [**‘Senior Trump Official’ On Shutdown: ‘We Do Not Want Most Employees To Return’**](https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/senior-trump-official-anonymous-daily-caller-op-ed-shutdown-federal-workers) > > > [@](#): > > > > An unnamed “senior official in the Trump administration” wrote in an anonymous Daily Caller op-ed Monday that the record-breaking 24-day partial government shutdown “is an opportunity to strip wasteful government agencies for good.” > > > > While it’s unclear how “senior” this administration official is — many senior Trump officials are still being paid, while the author claims to be “one of the senior officials working without a paycheck” — the op-ed could offer a window into another goal of this shutdown, in addition to using federal workers’ paychecks as leverage in an attempt to extract border wall funds from Congress: starving the government. > > > > The op-ed’s author wrote that “many federal agencies are now operating more effectively from the top down on a fraction of their workforce” and that “we do not want most employees to return, because we are working better without them.” > > > > … > > > > “Now that we are shut down, not only are we identifying and eliminating much of the sabotage and waste, but we are finally working on the president’s agenda,” the official wrote, adding in conclusion: “Wasteful government agencies are fighting for relevance but they will lose. Now is the time to deliver historic change by cutting them down forever.” > > … > > My emphasis. > > … ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/145 "2019-01-15T15:18:53Z")
Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase and one of the three most influential people on the Street says the shutdown has a very real chance of killing Q1 growth figures: > ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/146 "2019-01-15T17:53:04Z")
I know Republicans are logic-challenged, but I can’t believe this paradox isn’t causing at least a few of them to question their fearless leader. [ol] [li]I agree with Trump that we need a wall for border security[/li][li]Trump waited until he’d lost a Republican House majority before insisting that funding for the wall be included in the budget[/li][/ol] How are GOP leaders possibly spinning this so it makes sense? ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/147 "2019-01-15T18:18:18Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > I know Republicans are logic-challenged, but I can’t believe this paradox isn’t causing at least a few of them to question their fearless leader. > [ol] > [li]I agree with Trump that we need a wall for border security[/li][li]Trump waited until he’d lost a Republican House majority before insisting that funding for the wall be included in the budget[/li][/ol] > How are GOP leaders possibly spinning this so it makes sense? Their base are fucking morons, they’re not hard to fool. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/148 "2019-01-15T18:53:59Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > Their base are fucking morons, they’re not hard to fool. Yes, but how? What possible excuse are they using for why, if he thought it was so fucking important, Trump didn’t push for wall funding _while his party controlled the House_? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/149 "2019-01-15T19:20:37Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Yes, but how? What possible excuse are they using for why, if he thought it was so fucking important, Trump didn’t push for wall funding _while his party controlled the House_? He actually did several times, and Congress passed stop-gap measures to keep the government funded for a few more months without coming to a resolution on the Wall. Somehow, the Republican majority weren’t so gung-ho about approving it, but kept their mouths shut. That’s the way McConnell operates. He imposes delays till after election results. In Obama’s case, he wouldn’t convene meetings for the vacant Supreme court seat until Obama was out of office. This time, he stalled on approving the Wall so that the incoming Democrat House majority would take the blame. McWattle knew the Wall was a boondoggle, but he wasn’t going to speak against Trump because he’s all about party unity. This way, the Wall becomes an issue between Trump and the Dems. Remember, he’s had 8 years experience undermining Obama. He knows all about long-term timing and goals. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/150 "2019-01-15T19:26:59Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > McWattle 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/151 "2019-01-15T19:59:56Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > He actually did several times, and Congress passed stop-gap measures to keep the government funded for a few more months without coming to a resolution on the Wall. Somehow, the Republican majority weren’t so gung-ho about approving it, but kept their mouths shut. > > That’s the way McConnell operates. He imposes delays till after election results. In Obama’s case, he wouldn’t convene meetings for the vacant Supreme court seat until Obama was out of office. This time, he stalled on approving the Wall so that the incoming Democrat House majority would take the blame. > > McWattle knew the Wall was a boondoggle, but he wasn’t going to speak against Trump because he’s all about party unity. This way, the Wall becomes an issue between Trump and the Dems. Remember, he’s had 8 years experience undermining Obama. He knows all about long-term timing and goals. Yeah, I get all that, but how do they sell the idea to their base? “Back when we controlled both houses of Congress, we were perfectly content to pass stop-gap measures that didn’t include wall funding, but now that Dems control the House it’s suddenly much more important.” I realize many GOP voters only see “Trump wants wall / Dems say no / Trump is strong to resist,” but why aren’t they asking what happened the last two years? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/152 "2019-01-15T20:06:11Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Yes, but how? What possible excuse are they using for why, if he thought it was so fucking important, Trump didn’t push for wall funding _while his party controlled the House_? More generally, I think being a Republican these days means not asking a lot of questions. Consider: -“There is no border security without a wall!” Um, most of them fly in and overstay their visas. You could look it up. -“Drugs are pouring across the border, necessitating a wall!” Um, look at the El Chapo trial. They smuggled drugs through tunnels, in boats, planes, trains, trucks and cars, but really not across the open border. You could verify this from the transcript, or ask our very own fucking border patrol. -“Mexicans are diseased rapists!!!1!1!!” Um, puh leeze. And so on. The workings of Congress? I don’t think they get it. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/153 "2019-01-15T20:09:42Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > " > > I realize many GOP voters only see “Trump wants wall / Dems say no / Trump is strong to resist,” but why aren’t they asking what happened the last two years? Because they are stupid. This is really all we need to know. I doubt if the majority of Trump voters have any any clue whatsovever about how legislation is passed, or how budgets are voted on. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/154 "2019-01-15T20:15:07Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > Yeah, I get all that, but how do they sell the idea to their base? > > “Back when we controlled both houses of Congress, we were perfectly content to pass stop-gap measures that didn’t include wall funding, but now that Dems control the House it’s suddenly much more important.” > > I realize many GOP voters only see “Trump wants wall / Dems say no / Trump is strong to resist,”\*\* but why aren’t they asking what happened the last two years\*\*? A good disciple does not question the Messiah. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/155 "2019-01-15T20:36:24Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > Because they are stupid. This is really all we need to know. I doubt if the majority of Trump voters have any any clue whatsovever about how legislation is passed, or how budgets are voted on. Aren’t they deplorable? I think there are a goodly portion of them, like coal miners, who just want to keep their jobs and way of life. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/156 "2019-01-15T20:38:50Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Aren’t they deplorable? > > I think there are a goodly portion of them, like coal miners, who just want to keep their jobs and way of life. The great majority of them are more interested in hurting other people. And their “way of life” that they want to keep usually \*revolves \*around hurting people. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/157 "2019-01-15T21:00:01Z")
Am I the only one who noticed this testament to Donald J. Trump’s negotiating prowess? [Dems rebuff Trump invite, thwarting effort to bypass Pelosi](https://www.apnews.com/e6128489e74e45a6b87329cf4fc744a1) > [@](#): > > The White House ran quickly into the limits of trying to bypass Speaker Nancy Pelosi in shutdown negotiations when rank-and-file House Democrats declined an invitation to lunch Tuesday with President Donald Trump. > > The administration is trying to peel off Democratic support for Trump’s demand for border wall money and negotiate directly with centrist lawmakers and some newly elected freshmen, including those in districts where Trump is popular. > > Pelosi gave her blessing for lawmakers to accept the White House invitation, but White House Press Secretary Sarah Sanders said “unfortunately” no Democrats accepted. Dems standing united behind Pelosi; who’d thunk it? ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/158 "2019-01-15T21:23:00Z")
If Dems are smart, they’ll negotiate with the real decision makers: Trump’s ministers of bullshit Limbaugh, Coulter and Hannity. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/159 "2019-01-15T21:24:18Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Am I the only one who noticed this testament to Donald J. Trump’s negotiating prowess? [Dems rebuff Trump invite, thwarting effort to bypass Pelosi](https://www.apnews.com/e6128489e74e45a6b87329cf4fc744a1)Dems standing united behind Pelosi; who’d thunk it? Good gracious! Whatever will become of the punditocracy’s beloved “Dems in disarray” narrative? However will they go on without it? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2019, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577/160 "2019-01-15T21:32:31Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Aren’t they deplorable? > > I think there are a goodly portion of them, like coal miners, who just want to keep their jobs and way of life. Their jobs are gone, and their way of life depends on them being elevated above minorities. That the pine for a time that isn’t coming back, and that they are nostalgic for a time that was a nightmare for their fellow citizens, doesn’t make their desires any more noble or less unrealistic. Rather than accept that times have changed, that we no longer employee large numbers of men wielding picks and shovels to dig out fossilized trees from the ground to burn, that we no longer treat minorities as second class citizens, they prefer to see their fellow citizens suffer, and will take action to ensure that suffering, simply out of spite that they don’t feel as though they should have to change. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-shutdown/827577.md?page=9)