# Trump's Taxes/Obama's records **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 13, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880 "2016-09-13T20:33:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/1 "2016-09-13T20:33:34Z")
Turnabout is fair play. Remember when Trump offered to donate big $ if Obama released certain records? You know, because that would prove the President wasn’t born in the US? Well, [Reid Hoffman has offered to match on a 5 to 1 basis of money raised in a crowdfunding effort to get Trump to release his tax returns before the October 19 debate.](http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/14/us/politics/linkedin-hoffman-trump-tax-returns-veterans.html?_r=0) I can’t imagine this will get Don the Con to actually release his returns, but I’m going to join the crowdfunding effort anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/2 "2016-09-13T20:43:39Z")
The problem with things like this is that Trump is so far off the wall on other matters that stuff like this gets drowned out. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/3 "2016-09-13T21:07:53Z")
This is almost exactly what I hoped Warren Buffett would do. Though I suggested something a little more illegal. If I had the money of Buffett, I’d offer up a lifetime job of a million a year to anyone at the IRS willing to steal Trump’s records and put it out into the public. If they get jailed, doesn’t matter, I’ll hire the lawyers and I’ll even take care of his family. Just get the tax records at any cost. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/4 "2016-09-13T21:41:26Z")
Il Douche’s record of appalling behavior is already public. Doesn’t seem to have had all the much impact on his adamantly loyal base of support. Not at all sure his tax records would make any difference. However, it is hard to put much weight on that considering that nothing about his electoral season makes the least bit of sense. ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/5 "2016-09-13T21:43:35Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Il Douche’s record of appalling behavior is already public. Doesn’t seem to have had all the much impact on his adamantly loyal base of support. Not at all sure his tax records would make any difference. > > However, it is hard to put much weight on that considering that nothing about his electoral season makes the least bit of sense. It would bother some of his fans if it were to be revealed that he’s not a billionaire, and that he owes massive sums to foreign governments and/or their surrogates. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/6 "2016-09-13T21:49:48Z")
Of course it would, if they believed it. But by all appearance, if you hit them between the eyes with the +10 Iron Hammer of Truth, they might blink. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/7 "2016-09-13T21:57:04Z")
I’m pretty confident that his tax records would not just show but prove he’s the con that he really is. Plus, it’ll probably confirm he’s only worth a mere $50 million, certainly not near $1 billion. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/8 "2016-09-13T22:03:57Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > It would bother some of his fans if it were to be revealed that he’s not a billionaire, and that he owes massive sums to foreign governments and/or their surrogates. Could I tell what you net worth is from your tax returns? I assure you, you couldn’t tell what mine is from my returns. Trump obviously sees more harm in releasing the info than not releasing it. I can think of quite a few reasons for that. And who knows, maybe it’s no big deal and he releases them a week before the election so everyone is talking about him and how “no big deal” the release was. At any rate, he’s not the kind of person to do something for nothing. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/9 "2016-09-13T22:11:15Z")
> [@](#): > > …I assure you, you couldn’t tell what mine is from my returns… Right now, we are busy demanding an investigation into Trump. OK if we get around to you after? ---
**Author:** ![Sherrerd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sherrerd/32/8_2.png) [@Sherrerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sherrerd)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/10 "2016-09-13T22:23:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Could I tell what you net worth is from your tax returns? … Of course net worth isn’t entered on any line of the 1040, but inferences can be made from the information that is there. For example, someone who has income only from wages is unlikely to be a wealthy person (as wealthy people typically have income from investments, etc.). Sure, there may be the odd ‘money kept in a box in the attic’ millionaire with no investment income. But in general, inferences may be made. With regard to Trump, many would be interested in such items as: offshore accounts; claimed business losses used to offset taxes owed; and interest paid on loans. How cash-poor is he? The returns would offer information on that question. Aside from the question of what he’s worth, the returns would offer a powerful metric for documenting–or debunking–Trump’s claims, such as those he’s made about his supposed charitable giving. So many people are talking about this that it’s a wonder cable-news hosts don’t laugh right in the faces of Trump surrogates who keep suggesting ‘the American people don’t care about Trump’s tax returns’… > [@](#): > > Romney then went on to suggest that the only “logical explanation” for Trump’s refusal is that his returns contain “a bombshell of unusual size.” … As we noted then, in more than three decades, no other nominees for either party have released fewer than five years’ worth of returns. [Trump's Tax Returns - FactCheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/trumps-tax-returns/) ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2016, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/11 "2016-09-13T22:32:09Z")
Unfortunately, AFAICT Peter Kiernan’s CrowdPac page doesn’t spell out what, “Release tax returns” means. Recall that Trump substituted a letter dashed out in 5 minutes by his gastroenterologist for a serious discussion of his underlying health. At the same time, I’m wondering what Trump would offer. An astonishing excellent letter by his accountant? Form 1040 with all numbers redacted? Form [4506-T](https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506t.pdf)? A certified mail receipt? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stainless_steel_rat/32/5727_2.png) [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stainless_Steel_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/12 "2016-09-14T00:59:44Z")
I think if the topic comes up during the debate, Hillary needs to “Double Dog Dare” Trump to release his returns. Odds are he won’t even understand the reference (see below), but it’s the sort of prod that he just can’t leave alone, and most everybody else will get the ‘in’ joke. [Spoiler]It’s from a scene in “A Christmas Story” which shows 24 hours every Christmas season. I almost guarantee that most if not all Trump supporters will get the reference, and the Donald’s confusion/response could be telling…)[/spolier] ---
**Author:** ![Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blue_blistering_barnacle/32/3386_2.png) [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blue_Blistering_Barnacle)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/13 "2016-09-14T01:43:13Z")
> [@The\_Stainless\_Steel\_Rat](#): > > I think if the topic comes up during the debate, Hillary needs to “Double Dog Dare” Trump to release his returns. Odds are he won’t even understand the reference (see below), but it’s the sort of prod that he just can’t leave alone, and most everybody else will get the ‘in’ joke. > > [Spoiler]It’s from a scene in “A Christmas Story” which shows 24 hours every Christmas season. I almost guarantee that most if not all Trump supporters will get the reference, and the Donald’s confusion/response could be telling…)[/spolier] “Double-dog dare” isn’t unique to the movie\*. I heard it as a kid. I’ll bet DJT & HRC’s generation coined the expression, playing together on the playground. Actually, I’d guess it goes way back, even further. \*I would agree that failure to watch and cherish this movie should be disqualifying for any who seeks high office. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/14 "2016-09-14T05:23:29Z")
> [@Blue\_Blistering\_Barnacle](#): > > …failure to watch and cherish this movie should be disqualifying for any who seeks high office. 🙂 Now I want to have a “Face The Culture” town hall meeting, where I get to fire Princess Bride and Firesign Theater and Monty Python lines at the candidates. If they understand the reference, or better yet, reply with the next line, they get a treat from my life-size Jeff Lebowski Pez Dispenser. _“Mr. Trump, where should you never get involved in a land war? And, anything you feel compelled to add…?”_ ---
**Author:** ![Anny\_Middon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anny\_Middon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anny_Middon)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/15 "2016-09-14T13:13:28Z")
I had an odd thought this morning. What if Trump’s tax returns show hefty medical deductions? Of course, these could be for Melania or their son, but I can’t imagine that if one of them had a serious medical problem, he wouldn’t let it be known for the sympathy vote. But if he has a condition for which he has sought alternative or experimental treatment, his costs wouldn’t be covered by his insurance – and could be substantial. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/16 "2016-09-14T13:54:49Z")
> [@YogSothoth](#): > > This is almost exactly what I hoped Warren Buffett would do. Though I suggested something a little more illegal. If I had the money of Buffett, I’d offer up a lifetime job of a million a year to anyone at the IRS willing to steal Trump’s records and put it out into the public. If they get jailed, doesn’t matter, I’ll hire the lawyers and I’ll even take care of his family. Just get the tax records at any cost. My guess is that would put old Warren in the slammer too. I don’t think he’s going to do this. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2016, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/17 "2016-09-14T15:23:48Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > My guess is that would put old Warren in the slammer too. I don’t think he’s going to do this. I’m sure he can beat it with an army of lawyers. Rich people aren’t like us, they don’t even go bankrupt the same way ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/18 "2016-09-15T13:21:28Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > My guess is that would put old Warren in the slammer too. I don’t think he’s going to do this. And even if he did do it, it would defeat the purpose, by giving his supporters a built-in excuse to ignore anything they don’t like in the return: “Well, these are obviously fake returns published by an admitted criminal! They doctored them to make Trump look bad!” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/19 "2016-09-15T13:39:24Z")
> [@Sherrerd](#): > > Of course net worth isn’t entered on any line of the 1040, but inferences can be made from the information that is there. > > For example, someone who has income only from wages is unlikely to be a wealthy person (as wealthy people typically have income from investments, etc.). Sure, there may be the odd ‘money kept in a box in the attic’ millionaire with no investment income. But in general, inferences may be made. > > With regard to Trump, many would be interested in such items as: offshore accounts; claimed business losses used to offset taxes owed; and interest paid on loans. How cash-poor is he? The returns would offer information on that question. > > Aside from the question of what he’s worth, the returns would offer a powerful metric for documenting–or debunking–Trump’s claims, such as those he’s made about his supposed charitable giving. > > So many people are talking about this that it’s a wonder cable-news hosts don’t laugh right in the faces of Trump surrogates who keep suggesting ‘the American people don’t care about Trump’s tax returns’… > > [Trump's Tax Returns - FactCheck.org](http://www.factcheck.org/2016/05/trumps-tax-returns/) You still couldn’t determine his net worth. He probably doesn’t even know himself. So much of his wealth is going to be tied up in real estate, and we’re not talking 3 BR 2 BA homes that you can go to ZILLOW to find their value. The other thing, of course, is that at Trump’s level, net worth is not so important. It’t not how much money you have, it’s how much capital you can leverage. I suspect the bigger issue with Trump and his taxes is the connection to foreign interests or the lack of charitable giving or something along those lines. I doubt he’s worried someone is going to be able to determine his net worth. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2016, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880/20 "2016-09-15T14:02:31Z")
Most of the wealth in Trump’s claims of his own net worth is tied up in the value he places on his own name. But with how many places are scrambling to try to remove his name now, the value of that name is probably a lot closer to zero. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-taxes-obamas-records/765880.md?page=2)