# Trump's worstest crime--ever! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 26, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228 "2017-01-26T15:05:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/1 "2017-01-26T15:05:33Z")
Apparently that Christo character who’s made a “living” by disrupting eocsystems and dumping tons of cloth on natural wonders has quit saying Donald Trump is our new landlord and pooh on him. Well…that’ll teach _us_! :rolleyes: Perhaps Christo could take his newfound time, newfound social conscience and newfound acres of cloth and…say, clothe a poverty-stricken village somewhere and do something useful with his life. Link: > **[Christo, Trump and the Art World’s Biggest Protest Yet (Published 2017)](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/arts/design/christo-protest-donald-trump-colorado-artwork.html)** > > The artist spent $15 million and more than 20 years on a vast artwork in Colorado to rival his masterpiece, “The Gates.” Now he’s walking away. There hasn’t been much that the Cheeto-In-Chief has done that I’m particularly excited about but gotta say that this? This I like. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/2 "2017-01-26T15:18:18Z")
All the shit going down lately and THIS rattles your Chain?!?! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/3 "2017-01-26T15:20:45Z")
So you don’t care what damage Trump does as long as he pisses off an artist you don’t like? To be clear, if you don’t happen to like Christo’s art, that’s fine, but the “disrupting ecosystems” claim is a bit over the top. A considerable number of the works consist of wrapping man-made objects, all his works are temporary, and apparently considerable effort is made to not cause environmental damage. Also, he apparently self-finances all his works. What’s wrong with that? I thought conservatives were all about the freedom to spend your own money as you see fit. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/4 "2017-01-26T15:28:27Z")
I started reading the OP as “… that Crisco character…” and thought it was going to be about the NJ Governor. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/5 "2017-01-26T15:28:40Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I thought conservatives were all about the freedom to spend your own money as you see fit. Close-They are about spending _their_ money as _they_ see fit. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/6 "2017-01-26T15:30:53Z")
Cool your knee-jerking. I’m not particularly a fan of our tiny-fingered Cheeto, but looking at the “glass half full side” I find that one small positive that came out of what he’s done is that he pissed Cristo off enough that Cristo will not make an environmental hash out of the Arkansas river with his crappy alleged “art”. [Christo and Jeanne-Claude - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christo_and_Jeanne-Claude#Over_The_River) ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/7 "2017-01-26T15:45:23Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > So you don’t care what damage Trump does as long as he pisses off an artist you don’t like? The words in your head? They’re not what’s happening in reality. I only said that this is a single instance of something good coming out of Trump. > [@](#): > > To be clear, if you don’t happen to like Christo’s art, that’s fine, but the “disrupting ecosystems” claim is a bit over the top. A considerable number of the works consist of wrapping man-made objects, all his works are temporary, and apparently considerable effort is made to not cause environmental damage. I don’t think that leaving ~9000 nine foot tall concrete pylons used to anchor the wrapping stuck along the banks of the river is “temporary”. I mean, sure concrete erodes eventually but not quickly. [http://adobeairstream.com/art/over-the-river-land-art-disputes-in-salida-colorado/](http://adobeairstream.com/art/over-the-river-land-art-disputes-in-salida-colorado/) ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/8 "2017-01-26T15:45:53Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Cool your knee-jerking. > > I’m not particularly a fan of our tiny-fingered Cheeto, but looking at the “glass half full side” I find that one small positive that came out of what he’s done is that he pissed Cristo off enough that Cristo will not make an environmental hash out of the Arkansas river with his crappy alleged “art”. [Christo and Jeanne-Claude - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christo_and_Jeanne-Claude#Over_The_River) Yeah, I read that. Did you happen to read this paragraph? > [@](#): > > Christo and Jeanne-Claude have already spent more than $6 million on environmental studies, design engineering, and wind-tunnel testing of fabrics. As with past projects, Over The River would be financed entirely by Christo and Jeanne-Claude, through the sale of Christo’s preparatory drawings, collages, scale models, and early works of the 1950s/1960s. On July 16, 2010, the U.S. Bureau of Land Management released its four-volume Draft Environmental Impact Statement, which reported many potentially serious types of adverse impact but also many proposed “mitigation” options. Spends his own money, pays for the environmental studies, and comes up with possible solutions to potential adverse effects. Seems like all you’ve got left is that you don’t like his art. ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/9 "2017-01-26T15:46:03Z")
Learn to punctuate OP. That made my brain hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/10 "2017-01-26T15:48:07Z")
BTW, the article you linked to says that he has quit on this particular project, not that he has retired completely. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/11 "2017-01-26T15:54:42Z")
Reading between the lines, I suspect that Christo realizes that there is no way that the Trump administration is going to grant him the permits for his project, and has decided that it looks better to quit in protest then get shot down. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/12 "2017-01-26T15:59:20Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Reading between the lines, I suspect that Christo realizes that there is no way that the Trump administration is going to grant him the permits for his project, and has decided that it looks better to quit in protest then get shot down. Perhaps if he had made the fabric black velvet, and decorated it with dogs playing poker and humongous glow-in-the-dark Elvises? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/13 "2017-01-26T16:02:36Z")
I wonder how many people would have been employed, and what sort of economic boost (if any) increased tourism would have brought? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/14 "2017-01-26T16:04:13Z")
I think Trump would settle for his name embossed in large gold letters on the fabric. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/15 "2017-01-26T16:09:33Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Apparently that Christo character who’s made a “living” by disrupting eocsystems and dumping tons of cloth on natural wonders has quit saying Donald Trump is our new landlord and pooh on him. Well…that’ll teach _us_! :rolleyes: > > Perhaps Christo could take his newfound time, newfound social conscience and newfound acres of cloth and…say, clothe a poverty-stricken village somewhere and do something useful with his life. > > Link: > [https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/arts/design/christo-protest-donald-trump-colorado-artwork.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/25/arts/design/christo-protest-donald-trump-colorado-artwork.html) > > There hasn’t been much that the Cheeto-In-Chief has done that I’m particularly excited about but gotta say that this? This I like. Why would I give a fuck about some guy I never even heard of? But then I don’t give a fuck about you either. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/16 "2017-01-26T16:22:03Z")
You can’t spell Christo without Christ. Bring back prayer to our schools, stop sparing the rod, and end the war on Christo once and for all. ---
**Author:** ![Azeotrope](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/0ea827/32.png) [@Azeotrope](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azeotrope)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/17 "2017-01-26T16:48:21Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Why would I give a fuck about some guy I never even heard of? But then I don’t give a fuck about you either. Golly, I felt that burn clear over here. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/18 "2017-01-26T16:49:52Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > I don’t think that leaving ~9000 nine foot tall concrete pylons used to anchor the wrapping stuck along the banks of the river is “temporary”. I mean, sure concrete erodes eventually but not quickly. > > [http://adobeairstream.com/art/over-the-river-land-art-disputes-in-salida-colorado/](http://adobeairstream.com/art/over-the-river-land-art-disputes-in-salida-colorado/) I’m interested to know where you get your information about “concrete pylons,” because the article you’ve linked here mentions no such thing. There is, as far as i can tell, no evidence that the plan was to leave behind 9000 concrete pylons. In fact, the only mention of concrete in that whole article was referring to a previous Christo installation in Colorado in 1972. Your article says: > [@](#): > > Yet, opponents to Over the River point out that the project will require 8,992 anchors, each a minimum of 9 feet in length. A portion of most of these anchors will be left in place once the fabric is removed and grout will be used to fill the anchor holes. In all, it is estimated that there will be over 2,500 cubic yards of ground disturbed to install the anchors and frames–2,500 cubic yards along a 40-mile stretch of the Arkansas River. So, a bunch of 9-foot anchors, with no mention of what material they will be made out of. According to the [Bureau of Land Management’s Record of Decision](https://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/co/field_offices/royal_gorge_field/planning0/otr_record_of_decision.Par.42838.File.dat/ROD_Print_Final_11-1-11.pdf) (PDF), it would work like this: > [@](#): > > Construction activities are scheduled to start in 2012 with > the drilling and installation of over 9,100 anchors or rock bolts in areas adjacent to the river. In addition, > 2,275 Anchor Transition Frames will be erected and secured to these anchors and 1,275 steel cables will > be stretched across the river and secured to the anchor frames. The steel cables will vary from 8 to > 25 feet in height above the water surface. > > p. 1 I admit that i’m no structural engineer, and the BLM report doesn’t give specific details about materials, or provide images of the anchors and transition frames, but my first thought was that it sounds like they’re talking about embedding long thin anchors, probably metal, in the ground, sort of like a larger version of the pitons that climbers use to secure their ropes in cliff faces. And, in fact, if you have a look at the [structural engineer’s report](https://www.blm.gov/style/medialib/blm/co/field_offices/royal_gorge_field/planning0/otr_ddp.Par.84314.File.dat/Over%20The%20River_Volume%202_J1.pdf)(a massive 437-page PDF), you’ll see that this is pretty much what the anchors are: > [@](#): > > Anchors consist of either hollow self-drilling steel bars, threaded expansion-shell “point > anchors”, or extendable Swellex friction anchors, depending on the actual geologic conditions at > each ATF location (refer to the Golder Associate report of November 15, 2006 for a description > of anticipated ground conditions and each anchor type). > > p. 27 of the PDF So, not “nine foot tall concrete pylons.” If you want to see the exact location and composition of each and every anchor and other structure involved in the project, the engineer’s report helpfully lists all of them in a 54-page section of its report, starting on page 32 of the PDF. The BLM report then adds: > [@](#): > > At the end of the 2‐week exhibition period, the system of > cables and anchors and other above‐ground materials would be removed and recycled. The applicant > would be responsible for restoring the river corridor to BLM standards per the terms and conditions > defined in a land use authorization. > > p. 8 The BLM defines this artwork as a short-term project, but also notes that “there may be longer-term evidences” left behind after it is complete: > [@](#): > > While the bulk of the project will be removed, most of the 9,100 > anchors will be left in place below the surface. Close examination may allow visitors to see evidence of > the filled holes resulting from the OTR drilling. > > p. 22 Christo’s [own site](http://www.overtheriverinfo.com/index.php/about-over-the-river/installing-otr/) says: > [@](#): > > Most importantly, the Arkansas River Valley will be restored to preconstruction conditions after the project is complete. All visible elements of the project will be removed and the surface-level holes will be refilled with BLM-approved, weed-free top soil. The ground will be restored to its original contours, and any areas requiring re-vegetation will be seeded with a BLM-approved native plant mix. Depending on the terrain, some anchors will remain deep in the ground and not be visible. There will be no lasting environmental impacts after the project is complete. The BLM’s report, in its discussion of the environmental impact, generally seems to concur with the assessment. I was barely aware of Christo’s existence before i read about this in the New York Times yesterday. I certainly have to particular reason to like or dislike him. I’m also happy to acknowledge that some opponents of Over The River most likely had perfectly rational and decent reasons for opposing it. But it seems to me that you’re grasping at reasons to dump on this project. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/19 "2017-01-26T16:50:30Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Perhaps if he had made the fabric black velvet, and decorated it with dogs playing poker and humongous glow-in-the-dark Elvises? Grrrrr Say what you want about Elvis but lay off about the dogs/poker issue! ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2017, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228/20 "2017-01-26T16:51:09Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > The words in your head? They’re not what’s happening in reality. I only said that this is a single instance of something good coming out of Trump. Good point. I withdraw my objection. I wish more people had the guts to ringingly condemn Mr. Trump for his inability to particularly excite them. > [@your link](#): > > Truth is, that Colorados mountains are littered with the construction remains from mining and railroads, track is left rusting and overgrown, mine shafts are often open and dangerous, leaching toxic chemicals into the ground and water supply. Yet, opponents to Over the River point out that the project will require 8,992 anchors, each a minimum of 9 feet in length. A portion of most of these anchors will be left in place once the fabric is removed and grout will be used to fill the anchor holes. In all, it is estimated that there will be over 2,500 cubic yards of ground disturbed to install the anchors and frames–2,500 cubic yards along a 40-mile stretch of the Arkansas River. Not much. Sounds like steel rods anchored in concrete below ground level, and that they will be pulling the rods out and topping the holes off to ground level (ETA: I see **mhendo** added some details). True enough, not zero impact, but I also think it can be fairly said not on the level of tailings piles leaching heavy metals. Anyway, as I said, I’m fine with you not liking Christo; just wanted to point out that I believe you are overstating the case a bit on environmental impacts. Carry on. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trumps-worstest-crime-ever/778228.md?page=2)