# Trunk, where's your evidence? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 26, 2005, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906 "2005-06-26T08:45:41Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/41 "2005-06-27T21:40:53Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > The simplest answer is that she was abducted. Guy breaks into the house, wakes the girls up by saying something like "If you make a sound I’ll kill you and your parents. Tells the other girl that once he’s out of the house, if he hears her scream he’s going to kill her sister. Little girl is so terrified, and young, that she doesn’t have a good sense of time and merely shivers for a couple hours. > > I see no more proof for the claim that she wanted to marry this dude than that she was hoping they’d start up a drug smuggling ring with her serving as a coke mule. Where did I say she wanted to marry this dude? Where did anyone say that? Aren’t you leaping to conclusions a bit? I am only saying that there is more the the story–and I am not willing to rule out any possiblity. She may well have succumbed to Stockholm syndrome–I am just not convinced at present. I went to HS with a girl who swore she was raped–and she sent Gary Dotson to jail for a long time. Guess what-she made the whole thing up. I am NOT equating the two cases; I am merely reserving judgement until the court trial and evidence. Illumaniti? Masons? Where is that coming from? ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/42 "2005-06-27T21:50:19Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > This is a joke, right? Stokholm syndrome has already been refrenced in this thread, and is a much more likely reason than that she’s developmentally retarded. Just because Stockholm Syndrome was mentioned in the thread doesn’t mean that it actually happened to her - does it? What I said was not a joke and I wasn’t trying to insult her. It’s not inconceivable that she’s “slow.” It’s also not inconceivable that she developed Stockholm Syndrome. I don’t see that her not running from the loon was any more SS than that she’s slow or stupid or any other reason. I simply feel that the whole story didn’t come out and there are parts of it that leave unanswered questions. ---
**Author:** ![Harborwolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Harborwolf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harborwolf)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/43 "2005-06-27T21:53:08Z")
**eleanorigby** , Elizabeth Smart wanting to marry the guy came from Trunk, iirc. The mason/illuminati bit is also referencing Trunk. > [@Trunk](#): > > The evidence is the events themselves, entered into without the bias one has **after being told by the media and parents for years that this was a kidnapping**. I believe that is the part. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/44 "2005-06-27T22:00:15Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > And, damnit **TYM!!!** , I was gonna say: > While you’re at it, google for Patty Hearst or stokholm syndrome. > > And, so there, I still will! Nyeh nyeh! Does that mean I win the Internet? ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/45 "2005-06-28T00:30:04Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Where did I say she wanted to marry this dude? Where did anyone say that? I’m sorry, I figured you’d read the thread. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Actually re-writing it as a fairy tale highlights some of the mythological themes and makes me wonder if we(as a culture) want her to be abducted, rather than a girl who might have made a poor choice. What’d you figure her poor choice was, to hit the road with prophet nutcase and see the grand canyon? To set up a lemonade stand in crazy town with grizly adams? Maybe she wanted to go with him to learn the ways of the force and become a Jedi like her father? > [@missbunny](#): > > Just because Stockholm Syndrome was mentioned in the thread doesn’t mean that it actually happened to her - does it? I have yet to hear a more plausible analysis of her behavior. It’s also in accord with her actions. [Check here.](http://www.meaning.ca/articles/stockholm_syndrome.htm) Some of the symptoms? > [@](#): > > -Resenting police and proper authorities for their rescue attempts > > - Refusing to seek freedom even given the opportunity Some settings that would probably cause the syndrome > [@](#): > > # The constant threat to physical and psychological survival > > # A condition of helplessness and hopelessness > > # Isolation and loss of support systems from the outside world > > # A context of trauma and terror that shatters previously held assumptions > > # The perception that survival depends on total surrender and compliance Like, maybe a young girl abducted from her home, threatened with death, and repeatedly raped? > [@missbunny](#): > > It’s not inconceivable that she’s “slow.” It’s also not inconceivable that she developed Stockholm Syndrome. I’ve seen no evidence that she’s in any way slow. Do you have a cite? On the other hand, her experience seems to be a classic case of Stockholm > [@missbunny](#): > > I don’t see that her not running from the loon was any more SS than that she’s slow or stupid or any other reason. Even a stupid child, and I’ve not even seen any evidence that ES is mentally retarded, but even a dumb child would figure shit out when the police had already rescued her. > [@missbunny](#): > > I simply feel that the whole story didn’t come out and there are parts of it that leave unanswered questions. And yet, Stockholm Syndrome answers all those questions. > [@This Year's Model](#): > > Does that mean I win the Internet? Yes ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/46 "2005-06-28T00:40:58Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > I don’t think my comments were asinine. Really? You don’t find > [@](#): > > P.S. I don’t buy most of the Elizabeth Smart story either and think she and her parents are either lying about parts of it, or she’s the dumbest most naive 14-year-old on the planet. to be in that category? Where’s your evidence that she and her parents are lying? > [@](#): > > I also think there’s something fishy about Smart’s story. I’m not saying the entire thing is a big fat lie but there’s something strange there. Care to elucidate with facts and points on what’s fishy about Smart’s “story?” Of course there’s something strange! It’s strange to kidnap and rape a child. ---
**Author:** ![Maendosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@Maendosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maendosa)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/47 "2005-06-28T00:54:21Z")
It’s not inconceivable to me, knowing a bit about how a mormon girl of 14 might think, that once she’d been kidnapped and raped, it would be very very easy for a manipulative man to convince her that she’s supposed to be with him because _that’s what he says god wants_ but mostly that if she got away and went home no one would want her or love her anymore because she wasn’t the _perfect, unspoiled sweet little girl they thought she was._ Mindfuck of the highest degree. Once he’d broken her mentally, she could quite easily have talked herself out of getting away, because ‘yeah, they’re looking for me, but once they see who I am now, and know what I’ve done, they’ll wish I was still lost. I’m a bad person and I don’t deserve to go home.’ From what I read of the case at the time, and heard from family members who knew the situation, I think the worst the parents could have been blamed for was a shocking lack of ‘street smarts’, or common sense. ---
**Author:** ![Maendosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@Maendosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maendosa)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/48 "2005-06-28T00:56:46Z")
Hmm, and if I had the editing capacity, I would add this to forstall any jumpings on - I’m not implying that mormonism would teach a little girl that she was bad for being raped, or kidnapped. But to someone familiar with mormon teachings, and the psyche of a 14 year old fairly innocent girl, well, I suspect he probably damaged her just as much mentally/emotionally as he did physically. I hope they put him away for life. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/49 "2005-06-28T01:27:45Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > Where did I say she wanted to marry this dude? Where did anyone say that? > > Aren’t you leaping to conclusions a bit? I am only saying that there is more the the story–and I am not willing to rule out any possiblity. She may well have succumbed to Stockholm syndrome–I am just not convinced at present. I went to HS with a girl who swore she was raped–and she sent Gary Dotson to jail for a long time. Guess what-she made the whole thing up. I am NOT equating the two cases; I am merely reserving judgement until the court trial and evidence. > > Illumaniti? Masons? Where is that coming from? Whoa, you went to school with that girl? ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/50 "2005-06-28T01:52:29Z")
Yep-she was a year ahead of me. And she had swimming class/gym during the same period as me). Her gym locker was two away from mine, and she was in there changing the same time I was. I cannot recall her name (Cathy? Cindy?) She didn’t talk much, and I have no personal stories about her. When I was at that HS, there were approx 4000 students, so it’s not like I would have known her. as for **FinnAgain** –what’s got your knickers all in a twist? OK-so I missed the bit about Trunk saying that ES wanted to marry the guy. That’s **Trunk’s** issue, not mine. I am saying that a different explanation may be possible, using the “rape” that Gary Dotson was convicted of as proof that such things happen. So much for open mindedness. Something tells me that you don’t have much experience around teenage girls. **Harbor** -thank you for the explanation–I was wondering! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/51 "2005-06-28T02:01:56Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > as for **FinnAgain** –what’s got your knickers all in a twist? OK-so I missed the bit about Trunk saying that ES wanted to marry the guy. That’s **Trunk’s** issue, not mine. I’m a rather passionate guy. When I’ve got anything twisted, you’ll know it. Again, I’d ask you to actually state what you thought her motive was? I’m rather partial to the hypothesis that she wanted to become a jedi knight, myself. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > I am saying that a different explanation may be possible, using the “rape” that Gary Dotson was convicted of as proof that such things happen. So much for open mindedness. Having a mind so open your brain falls out aint good, as the saying goes. Again, just because some women will cry rape when they weren’t raped doesn’t, in any way, translate to this situation. It’s an obvious case of SS, and you should advance at least a tentative hypothesis about what her motives might’ve been. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Something tells me that you don’t have much experience around teenage girls. Being that I’m not a pedophile, no. But, again, what exactly are you suggesting this teenage girl decided to do? Run away from home and have lots of sex with some married old crazy dude? SS works in exactly the way that we saw ES acting. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/52 "2005-06-28T02:38:16Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > I’m a rather passionate guy. When I’ve got anything twisted, you’ll know it. I can’t say for always, but you’re certainly acting like a dick right now, as shown by the Jedi comment. Who I am to say what her(ES) motive was? What was Gary Dotson’s accuser’s motive? She was fooling around and didn’t want her parents to find out and she was afraid she was pregnant. Then the story got too big and she couldn’t stop the lies. Hmm…sounds familiar, in some respects. As for ES, she may not have had a motive. She may well have been kidnapped–I am saying is that I ahve not closed my mind to other possiblities. Maybe she wanted to get away from her family, maybe she was not ready to face something at school, home or church and when the guy took her (if take her he did), she went and literally ran away. Maybe he tied her down and tortured her every day until she was broken mentally and got SS. I have no idea. But I refuse to convict etc without more info. > [@](#): > > Having a mind so open your brain falls out aint good, as the saying goes. > Again, just because some women will cry rape when they weren’t raped doesn’t, in any way, translate to this situation. It’s an obvious case of SS, and you should advance at least a tentative hypothesis about what her motives might’ve been. See above, and thanks for telling me how to post-is there a booklet you publish so that I can study up and learn the right way? I want to do it just like you. How about since you’ve decided that it must be SS and she must not have wanted any life except that her family was providing, there can be no other explanation for her experience? How about you open your mind? The story does indeed translate-teenage girls can and do lie their butts off to save face, maintain a victim stance (IOW, refuse to take responsiblity for their choices) or to hurt other people. > [@](#): > > Being that I’m not a pedophile, no. > But, again, what exactly are you suggesting this teenage girl decided to do? Run away from home and have lots of sex with some married old crazy dude? SS works in exactly the way that we saw ES acting. Wanting to have sex with a teenage girl does make you a pedophile-get a grip. She may have been “content” to just go along and drift with these losers. I make no claims as to her state of mental health/illness. I highly doubt she knew what she was getting herself into (if she wasn’t abducted and went willingly). Again, and for the last time–I want more evidence before I make up my mind. Your lack of open mind is not my problem. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/53 "2005-06-28T03:19:32Z")
So, Monty, it’s okay for you to have your opinion about the case but it’s not okay for me to have a different one? I don’t believe the publicized story and think not everything has been told. You do believe the story. Fine. I don’t need to provide facts to justify my feeling that her story is fishy; it’s just a feeling I have based on reading about the case. You can also neither PROVE that her entire story is completely true. Maybe it is. FinnAgain: no, I don’t have “cite” that she’s slow or fast or anything else. I have also not claimed that it’s a fact. I said it’s a possibility, just as it’s possible that she suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. What is so hard to understand here? Aren’t other people allowed to have a different take on the case than you two? I think there’s something weird about the whole story. If you don’t, great. I’m not trying to convince you otherwise. I don’t believe I’ve said anything argumentative here but you two sure are getting riled up about anyone who professes anything not to your liking. ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/54 "2005-06-28T03:21:28Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I can’t say for always, but you’re certainly acting like a dick right now, as shown by the Jedi comment. Thin skinned much? > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Who I am to say what her(ES) motive was? The person suggesting that the most parsiminous explenation that’s supported by the most data is incorrect? Besides, aren’t you postulating that ES had some desire to go with [del]her abductor[/del] the wonderfuly friendly and charismatic psycho? > [@eleanorigby](#): > > What was Gary Dotson’s accuser’s motive? She was fooling around and didn’t want her parents to find out and she was afraid she was pregnant. Then the story got too big and she couldn’t stop the lies. Hmm…sounds familiar, in some respects. No… no it really doesn’t. 1. Some girls will lie about being raped when they have consentual sex. 2. Elizabeth Smart was gone from her family for a very long time and repeatedly molested by a crazy man. 3. Therefor, Elizabeth Smart really had consentual sex and decided to run away from her family for a long time. I still prefer the Jedi hypothesis. In other words, when I was in highschool math classes and asked to construct proofs, I often had a solution that I was tying to get at. I “knew” it was correct. So I’d work the problem as far as the facts would allow, and then put another step in and labeled it “A miracle happens.” This would then bring me within striking distance of the result I was aiming for. Thing is, even then, I realized that wasn’t really part of any convincing proof. Going from ‘some women lie about being raped’ to ‘ES might have lied about being kidnapped because she really wanted it’ containes the “A miracle happens” step. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > As for ES, she may not have had a motive. She may well have been kidnapped–I am saying is that I ahve not closed my mind to other possiblities. What evidence do you have for any other possibilities? Otherwise the Jedi hypothesis is about as valid as anything you can spin out of whole cloth. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Maybe she wanted to get away from her family, maybe she was not ready to face something at school, home or church and when the guy took her (if take her he did), she went and literally ran away. Maybe she was strong in the force and wanted to craft her own lightsabre. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Maybe he tied her down and tortured her every day until she was broken mentally and got SS. I have no idea. But I refuse to convict etc without more info. So she had a bully at school, or an argument with her parents, and decided to run away forever and become the sex toy of some old crazy guy? What actual evidence is there for this position other than it is possible to conceive of it? > [@eleanorigby](#): > > See above, and thanks for telling me how to post You’re welcome. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > -is there a booklet you publish so that I can study up and learn the right way? Yeah, but it’s real short. Here, I’ll transcribe it for you > [@](#): > > The ability to spin ridiculous hypotheses unsupported by any factual confirmation is just a slight step above the ability to spin out ridiculous allusions without even making a definite statement or providing evidence. So, ya know, it’s not so much a booklet as it is common sense. That’ll be $5.99 please. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > I want to do it just like you. Sorry baby, you can’t trip like I do. 🆒 > [@eleanorigby](#): > > How about since you’ve decided that it must be SS and she must not have wanted any life except that her family was providing, there can be no other explanation for her experience? How about you open your mind? Why is it that people with factually barren positions most often urge others to ‘open their minds’? Is there any evidence she was having problems with her family? Did the cops turn up anything? Did her teachers see anything? Did people who knew her think there was any sort of problem? What reasons would she have to run away and be the sexual plaything of some lunatic, or rather, what reasons that you can prove rather than simply suggest? On the other hand, a kidnapped and abused young girl might very easily fall into SS, which would also perfectly explain her later actions. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > The story does indeed translate-teenage girls can and do lie their butts off to save face, maintain a victim stance (IOW, refuse to take responsiblity for their choices) or to hurt other people. There’s a huge difference between a teen hooking up with another boy at highschool, and a teen running away from home forever in order to be the sex toy of an old married crazy man. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Wanting to have sex with a teenage girl does make you a pedophile-get a grip. Erunh? > [@eleanorigby](#): > > She may have been “content” to just go along and drift with these losers. Sure. We’re currently faced with a national epidemic of 13 and 14 year old girls deciding to run away from home and become fuck buddies with married lunatics. Won’t somebody think of the children!?! (She may also have been “content” to study the ways of the force and become a jedi knight) > [@eleanorigby](#): > > I make no claims as to her state of mental health/illness. The null hypothesis is that she’s not insane or retarded. Got any counter evidence? Or are you again going to claim that because you can imagine it, it should be on the same level as things that have proof? Because, personally, I can imagine that she wanted to go with the lunatic in order to form a fantastic Yeti hunting association and stalk the frozen wastes of Nepal. Why don’t you believe me, aren’t you open minded? > [@eleanorigby](#): > > I highly doubt she knew what she was getting herself into (if she wasn’t abducted and went willingly). For the sake of argument ,let’s assume your story is gospel. Even if she didn’t know what she was getting into, surely she’d have figured it out? Assuming then that she was some clueless idiot, once she figured it out why wouldn’t she rabbit when given the chance? > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Again, and for the last time–I want more evidence before I make up my mind. Hah. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > Your lack of open mind is not my problem. Damn me and my inability to credit any fantasy as being true! Damn meeeeeee! ---
**Author:** ![FinnAgain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/finnagain/32/12500_2.png) [@FinnAgain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FinnAgain)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/55 "2005-06-28T03:24:00Z")
> [@missbunny](#): > > FinnAgain: no, I don’t have “cite” that she’s slow or fast or anything else. I have also not claimed that it’s a fact. I said it’s a possibility, just as it’s possible that she suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. No. The null hypothesis is that she’s a normal girl who was abducted and fell prey to a well known syndrome. This requires the fewest leaps in logic. If you don’t have a cite for your claims, I’m afraid we can’t reject the null hypothesis. > [@missbunny](#): > > What is so hard to understand here? Aren’t other people allowed to have a different take on the case than you two? Sure, you’re allowed to be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/56 "2005-06-28T03:27:35Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > Erunh? No, she’s quite correct about that. Pedos target prepubescent children, not sexually mature teenagers. ---
**Author:** ![missbunny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/76d3ee/32.png) [@missbunny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missbunny)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/57 "2005-06-28T03:32:38Z")
> [@FinnAgain](#): > > No. > The null hypothesis is that she’s a normal girl who was abducted and fell prey to a well known syndrome. This requires the fewest leaps in logic. If you don’t have a cite for your claims, I’m afraid we can’t reject the null hypothesis. You don’t have a cite, either, that she was suffering from SS. You just think she was. Good. Keep thinking it. Maybe you’re right. > [@](#): > > Sure, you’re allowed to be wrong. Well that’s convincing. I’m wrong because I don’t agree with you, and you have no proof of your position either. Right-o. ---
**Author:** ![Pythian\_Habenero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a6a055/32.png) [@Pythian\_Habenero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pythian_Habenero)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/58 "2005-06-28T03:36:13Z")
I’m sorry, but can somebody link me some raw data somewhere with which I can come to conclusions on this? All I’ve got so far is a bunch of people shouting at one another, and while I’m usually good at deriving the probable truth from such a scenario, my usual methods[sup]\*[/sup] are void in this context. Aid me! [sub]\*Said methods often go no further than to examine carefully the posting styles of those involved in the shouting match. It’s surprising how much veracity can be determined by the observed shiftiness factor of participants. Sadly, this thread is for the most part devoid of glaring grammatical errors and/or logical inconsistencies obvious even without knowing the relevant facts. Such is the downside of reading threads on a board devoted to the squelching of ignorance; so far, all I have been able to determine is that **Trunk** is probably a foamy, nut-filled dessert involving slightly aged cream and questionable animal byproducts.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![ioioio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ioioio/32/316_2.png) [@ioioio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ioioio)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/59 "2005-06-28T04:16:36Z")
Not sure what you mean by “raw data”, but [here is a link](http://www.courttv.com/news/smart/) to the CourtTV website that contains a chronological list of stories about the case. [This AP story,](http://www.courttv.com/news/2003/0314/smart_ap.html) published shortly after ES was found, contains background on Mitchell, as well as some information about ES’s behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2005, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906/60 "2005-06-28T04:19:10Z")
People can be persuaded to do things they ordinarily wouldn’t do or go along with; I know from personal experience. Much less a young teen like ES. Mind control exists nowadays. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trunk-wheres-your-evidence/309906.md?page=4)