# Truth Or UL: 1950's Naval Captain Gets Comeuppance On Demanding, Uppity Socialite **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 19, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277 "2015-08-19T18:30:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/1 "2015-08-19T18:30:06Z")
This story showed up on my Facebook news feed today. Is there any truth to it? > [@The Accidental Talmudist Facebook Page](#): > > It’s 1958, and the captain of the US Navy base in Biloxi, Mississippi gets a call. > > “Captain, my name is Amelia Ainsley. Of the Biloxi Ainsleys, as I’m sure you are aware?” > > “I’m new to the area, ma’am.” > > “Well, Captain, when an Ainsley comes out at a debutante ball, it’s quite the thing. And this is my daughter’s year. I would like you to send over four young officers, handsome of course. Impeccably dressed, unmarried, and well-bred.” > > “I suppose we have some boys like that.” > > “They should expect an evening of polite conversation, proper dancing, and a bit of punch. No drunkenness. Oh, and Captain, I’m sure it goes without saying, but no Jews. We surely don’t like Jews, particularly at an Ainsley affair.” > > “Copy that, ma’am. No Jews it is.” > > The night arrives, and Mrs. Ainsley opens the door of Ainsley Hall to find four handsome, impeccably dressed, African-American naval officers on her porch. > > “Uh… uh… there must be some mistake!” > > “Oh no, ma’am, Captain Cohen doesn’t make mistakes.” Any naval/social historians here familiar with this story? ---
**Author:** ![yellowjacketcoder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/4bbf92/32.png) [@yellowjacketcoder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yellowjacketcoder)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/2 "2015-08-19T18:38:50Z")
Given this thread is the first result on google, seems unlikely it’s more than a joke. A similar joke about airlines can be found here: [Redirecting to Google Groups](https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.humor.jewish/zWcLYpnl0zU) ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/3 "2015-08-19T18:50:42Z")
A version of this story is in Asimov’s Treasury of Humor (on page 297) - that time, it’s “Sergeant Cohen” (link to excerpt [Isaac Asimov's Treasury of Humor: A Lifetime Collection of Favorite Jokes ... - Isaac Asimov - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=nFdOG5JxWZoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=asimov%27s+treasury+of+humour&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAGoVChMIsuTSn-i1xwIVShc-Ch2gAgOS#v=onepage&q=sergeant&f=false)) ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/4 "2015-08-19T19:02:18Z")
I’ve been in the Navy for almost 30 years. I’ve never heard of it. But issues I’d have include: Not sure we had a Naval base their in 1958. Could have. Not certain of it though. The Navy was a bit lily white back then. I don’t think on a small base there would have been four black junior Officers. Might have been, but there were not a ton of them. On the whole, I’d vote ‘no.’ ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/5 "2015-08-19T19:38:50Z")
Based on what little I know about Mississippi society families, you could sub in 2008, and the joke would be equally funny and accurate. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/6 "2015-08-19T19:56:15Z")
Sounds unlikely. While it might have been a good way to get back at the Ainsleys it would be a lousy thing to do to the black sailors (unless they were in on it as well). ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/7 "2015-08-19T20:58:00Z")
Nitpick: the Captain didn’t get comeuppance, the socialite got her comeuppance. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/8 "2015-08-19T22:42:56Z")
As far as I know the only military facility in Biloxi proper has ever been [Keesler AFB](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keesler_Air_Force_Base) (which it would have been at the time of this story; before the independent USAF, it would has Keesler Army Air Field). Nearest naval facility is [NCBC Gulfport](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Construction_Battalion_Center_%28Gulfport,_Mississippi%29), 13 miles from the heart of Biloxi. The place is old enough to fit the story, but I dunno… demanding SeaBee officers to escort your debs? Seems like of blue-collar to me. But the base is commanded by a Captain, so that much fits. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/9 "2015-08-19T23:01:15Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > . . .but I dunno… demanding SeaBee officers to escort your debs? Only if you want them pregnant. \*nitpick: it’s “Seabee”, not “SeaBee”. And actually the officers of the Seabees are Civil Engineer Corps (CEC) officers. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [August 19, 2015, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/10 "2015-08-19T23:14:55Z")
I heard the story in the eighties. It was a kindly southern lady wanting to invite some soldiers from an Army base over for Thanksgiving dinner. The captain in the tale was O.O.D., not the base commander. Other than that, the story proceeded as given in the OP. I never took the story has being true. ---
**Author:** ![Bill\_Door](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@Bill\_Door](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bill_Door)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/11 "2015-08-20T00:13:08Z")
> [@Andy\_L](#): > > A version of this story is in Asimov’s Treasury of Humor (on page 297) - that time, it’s “Sergeant Cohen” (link to excerpt [Isaac Asimov's Treasury of Humor: A Lifetime Collection of Favorite Jokes ... - Isaac Asimov - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=nFdOG5JxWZoC&printsec=frontcover&dq=asimov%27s+treasury+of+humour&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAGoVChMIsuTSn-i1xwIVShc-Ch2gAgOS#v=onepage&q=sergeant&f=false)) It’s much funnier with a non comissioned officer. The dichotomy between the socialite and the guy who works for a living. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/12 "2015-08-20T00:20:38Z")
[snopes](http://www.snopes.com/military/escort.asp) has traced it back to a newspaper article as early as 1919. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/13 "2015-08-20T02:02:48Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > (which it would have been at the time of this story; before the independent USAF, it would has Keesler Army Air Field). The story in the OP sets the date as 1958. The USAF was created from the USAAF in September, 1947. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [August 20, 2015, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/14 "2015-08-20T21:21:41Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The story in the OP sets the date as 1958. > The USAF was created from the USAAF in September, 1947. Indeed. Thanks for confirming my assertion: > [@me](#): > > Keesler AFB (which it would have been at the time of this story) I’m retired Air Force. There’s no conceivable way I could have gotten through 21 years of enlisted Profession Military Education\* without a functional grasp of Air Force history. \*including training stints at Keesler, to bring it back on-point. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/15 "2015-08-21T12:47:09Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Nitpick: the Captain didn’t get comeuppance, the socialite got her comeuppance. I believe that that’s where the “on” in the title of the thread comes into play. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/16 "2015-08-21T13:09:33Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I believe that that’s where the “on” in the title of the thread comes into play. This could be a thread of its own – I don’t think can “get” a comeuppance “on” someone else. But I think you can give someone their comeuppance. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/17 "2015-08-21T13:47:50Z")
You forgot the ending: _And 3 years later Barack Obama was born._ ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/18 "2015-08-21T18:28:44Z")
The story sounds pretty obviously fake. No military officer can order his men to attend a civilian social event just because a woman called him and says “send some men to my house”. And in Mississippi in 1958, any black who tried to crash an upper-class socialite event would be risking getting lynched. Blacks couldn’t enter through the porch, anyway…they would have had to go around back through the servants entrance. > [@](#): > > It’s 1958 … four African-American naval **officers** on her porch. Now, a historical question: Were there any black officers in 1958? The “colored people” usually worked in low-level jobs, both in civilian life and in the military. In 1958 there were virtually no blacks in senior positions anywhere in the country, whether as officers in the military, or managers in civilian jobs. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/19 "2015-08-21T18:40:37Z")
58 black men became naval officers during World War 2. By 1950 19% of the African-Americans in the navy were officers. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 21, 2015, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277/20 "2015-08-21T18:40:54Z")
Even if the base commander couldn’t order men to the party, he could certainly ask for volunteers and give them time off for the event. > [@](#): > > Blacks couldn’t enter through the porch, anyway…they would have had to go around back through the servants entrance. Yes, in fact, they could, so long as they had functioning legs. There’s a difference between “can” and “may”. They would not have been _permitted_ to enter via the front porch, but that’s the entire point of the anecdote. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truth-or-ul-1950s-naval-captain-gets-comeuppance-on-demanding-uppity-socialite/728277.md?page=2)