# Truthers and conspiracy theorists
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 30, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174 "2012-08-30T18:54:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 11
### Author:  [@Cheshire\_Human](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheshire_Human)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/201 "2013-12-14T01:58:23Z")
> [@BMalion](#):
>
> Probubly a pizza cook.
**Askthepizzaguy** [and that user name may be wrong] is far better at math than that errrmmm… Poster. I will refrain from commenting further on his math abilities, since it’s not the pit.
---
### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/202 "2013-12-14T02:37:40Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> And if he can’t figure a work-around for a divide-by-zero error, he’s not much of a programmer, either.
> [@BMalion](#):
>
> Probubly a pizza cook.
Doubtful.
His posts have yet to demonstrate the intellectual horsepower to grasp the concept of pi (notwithstanding the fact that those posts appear to share one of its properties).
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/203 "2013-12-14T02:40:10Z")
OK. Back off on the personal insults, everyone.
[/Moderating]
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/204 "2013-12-14T02:42:05Z")
Sorry. (note to self: edit twice, submit once)
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### Author:  [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/205 "2013-12-14T03:24:54Z")
Sorry.
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### Author:  [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/206 "2013-12-14T03:30:20Z")
Sorry. (I didn’t say anything but I thought it)
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### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/207 "2013-12-14T08:40:50Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> And what predictable action is going to do this in a skyscraper supposedly collapsing due to gravity? How is the function in relation to time going to be determined?
>
> Make up some shit up and call it scientific?
>
> We can’t even get a mass in relation to height function and that should have been the same for about 28 years.
>
> psik
Oh look, completely ignoring my question of why the fuck any of this is relevant. I never would have expected that to happen. Not like you’re a CTer OH WAIT.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/208 "2013-12-14T09:40:48Z")
I regret nothing! BWA HA HA HA!
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### Author:  [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/209 "2013-12-14T16:49:58Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> And if he can’t figure a work-around for a divide-by-zero error, he’s not much of a programmer, either.
Why isn’t making the impacted masses 0.1 tons a good enough work around?
If you make a better program will the collapse time change significantly? I got 9.1 seconds with 0.1 tons while 9.22 seconds is the result with no impacts whatsoever. To me that confirms that the program is more than close enough for government work. Better than good enough is just useless apple polishing.
psik
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/210 "2013-12-14T16:52:48Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> Why isn’t making the impacted masses 0.1 tons a good enough work around?
>
> If you make a better program will the collapse time change significantly? I got 9.1 seconds with 0.1 tons while 9.22 seconds is the result with no impacts whatsoever. To me that confirms that the program is more than close enough for government work. Better than good enough is just useless apple polishing.
>
> psik
Getting back on topic, could you respond to post #193, please?
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### Author:  [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/211 "2013-12-14T16:52:57Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#):
>
> It’s in the report - the mass of the falling portion increases over time, as more of the building becomes part of the falling portion.
And where are the Conservation of Momentum calculations of the reduced velocity?
That is what my Python program does. That is not the change in mass over time that the report was talking about.
psik
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/212 "2013-12-14T16:59:27Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> Why isn’t making the impacted masses 0.1 tons a good enough work around?
Wait. You want the exact weight of steel and concrete from other people but suddenly just tossing out a number is “good enough” when **you** do it? :dubious:
That’s not consistent. If that’s “good enough”, why is it “good enough”? And why isn’t it “good enough” when anybody else does it?
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/213 "2013-12-14T17:01:36Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> And where are the Conservation of Momentum calculations of the reduced velocity?
What reduced velocity?
You understand that “conservation of momentum” as you apply it is only valid when there is no net force applied to a body? From your posts, the only conclusion I can draw is that you have a flawed understanding of this principle.
But the falling bodies are subjected to a net force - gravity. You must take this into account. Yes, momentum is conserved in the larger system. But the larger system includes **the entire planet Earth** , which you aren’t taking into account.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/214 "2013-12-14T17:03:13Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> And where are the Conservation of Momentum calculations of the reduced velocity?
>
> That is what my Python program does. That is not the change in mass over time that the report was talking about.
>
> psik
Back to the topic of this thread: Are there any major conspiracy theories out there that you think are too ridiculous to be taken seriously?
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### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/215 "2013-12-14T17:05:44Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> And where are the Conservation of Momentum calculations of the reduced velocity?
>
> That is what my Python program does. That is not the change in mass over time that the report was talking about.
>
> psik
> [@runner pat](#):
>
> [Right here.](http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm)
Read the fucking link that you ignored the last time.
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/216 "2013-12-14T17:10:15Z")
More on momentum conservation:
It also appears you are also assuming these collisions are fully elastic. That’s fine for an intro physics class. It’s not entirely valid in the real world. When a child bowls into you, you don’t bounce off each other. It’s an inelastic collision. Your velocities aren’t going to behave like your Physics 101 formulae, because of all the other forces at play.
When a car T-bones a bus, the bus doesn’t bounce off like your formula would have it bounce.
When I drop a weight onto the Earth, the weight doesn’t bounce with velocity the way your formula would have it.
These are all inelastic collisions (as many of the falling bodies from a skyscrapers would interact inelastically), and you aren’t taking it into account.
In all these cases, momentum is conserved, but not in the ultra-simplified way you understand it. Again, you clearly have an imperfect understanding of the principle of conservation of momentum.
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### Author:  [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/217 "2013-12-14T18:00:24Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> And where are the Conservation of Momentum calculations of the reduced velocity?
>
> That is what my Python program does. That is not the change in mass over time that the report was talking about.
>
> psik
What change of mass over time does the report talk about?
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### Author:  [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/218 "2013-12-14T18:48:15Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> And where are the Conservation of Momentum calculations of the reduced velocity?
I’ve no idea, I’m neither an engineer nor a physicist.
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> That is what my Python program does. That is not the change in mass over time that the report was talking about.
>
> psik
Pretty sure it is:
> [@](#):
>
> Note that m¯ is a function of time due its dependence on ¯, and hence, there are similarities here to problems involving variable mass, for the kinetic- and potential energy expressions strictly apply to the mass of the falling portion alone, which increases over time. Application of Eqn 10 remains valid provided the mass is an explicit function of time whose variation stems from entrainment,
> or expulsion, of mass at a relative velocity of zero.
What else would make the mass of the falling portion increase over time, except more of the building falling?
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### Author:  [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/219 "2013-12-14T22:22:21Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Back to the topic of this thread: Are there any major conspiracy theories out there that you think are too ridiculous to be taken seriously?
In my experience, CTs don’t buy into just one CT. Well, technically, I guess, they do as the various CT explanations always get back to the usual suspects behind it all and the various CT “explanations” for whatever is just one facet of the over-arching, all-encompassing “theory”.
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 14, 2013, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/220 "2013-12-14T22:36:44Z")
> [@Monty](#):
>
> In my experience, CTs don’t buy into just one CT. Well, technically, I guess, they do as the various CT explanations always get back to the usual suspects behind it all and the various CT “explanations” for whatever is just one facet of the over-arching, all-encompassing “theory”.
I wish I could get **psikeyhackr** to get back on topic and answer this one.
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