# Truthers and conspiracy theorists
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 30, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174 "2012-08-30T18:54:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 13
**Page:** 17
### Author:  [@se7ensnakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/se7ensnakes)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2013, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/321 "2013-12-20T17:23:21Z")
Whenever or wherever you find corruption and subsequently criminals you will also find conspiracies. The world “Conspiracy” appear to have been engineered to emotionally represent a ridiculous explanation for something that is simply what the media has uncovered and stated. Not all conspiracies have evidence laid out in front of you but you can logically summarize by the scant evidence and by a fact such as that the media may be controlled and filtered. The other alternative to serious truth seeker is the UNTHINKING PUBLIC. The unthinking public is told what happened and they will in turn go back to whatever it is that unthinking people do… watch jersey shore, Americas got talent, or some over media entertainment.
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### Author:  [@se7ensnakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/se7ensnakes)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2013, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/322 "2013-12-20T17:33:18Z")
1. There is a Conspiracy that the truth of the earth being flat is kept from the general public.
2. A flat earth has been disapproved by extensive testimony and scientific evidence.
3)Therefore all conspiracies, in general, are equally erroneous.
3. Truth is what the media maintains, and by a consensus.
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### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2013, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/323 "2013-12-20T17:44:40Z")
> [@se7ensnakes](#):
>
> 1. There is a Conspiracy that the truth of the earth being flat is kept from the general public.
> 2. A flat earth has been disapproved by extensive testimony and scientific evidence.
> 3)Therefore all conspiracies, in general, are equally erroneous.
> 3. Truth is what the media maintains, and by a consensus.
Nobody actually thinks that way.
> [@se7ensnakes](#):
>
> Whenever or wherever you find corruption and subsequently criminals you will also find conspiracies. The world “Conspiracy” appear to have been engineered to emotionally represent a ridiculous explanation for something that is simply what the media has uncovered and stated. Not all conspiracies have evidence laid out in front of you but you can logically summarize by the scant evidence and by a fact such as that the media may be controlled and filtered. The other alternative to serious truth seeker is the UNTHINKING PUBLIC. The unthinking public is told what happened and they will in turn go back to whatever it is that unthinking people do… watch jersey shore, Americas got talent, or some over media entertainment.
You spend the first third of this post basically saying “conspiracies are ridiculous! They go against the evidence! They have scant evidence!”
And then you spend the last third talking about how people who aren’t conspiracy theorists watch jersey shore. What a bizarre post.
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### Author:  [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2013, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/324 "2013-12-20T18:04:22Z")
> [@se7ensnakes](#):
>
> 1. There is a Conspiracy that the truth of the earth being flat is kept from the general public.
> 2. A flat earth has been disapproved by extensive testimony and scientific evidence.
> 3)Therefore all conspiracies, in general, are equally erroneous.
> 3. Truth is what the media maintains, and by a consensus.
Every Conspiracy Theory must be examined on its own terms. Unfortunately, as so many of them fail for the same reasons, usually some logical fallacy, it may appear that the debunkers are automatically using a standard Ockham’s Sledgehammer on all claims.
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2013, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/325 "2013-12-20T18:13:56Z")
> [@se7ensnakes](#):
>
> Whenever you find corruption and subsequently criminals you will also find conspiracies. The world “Conspiracy” appear to have been engineered to emotionally represent a ridiculous explanation for something that is simply what the media has uncovered and stated.
Your etymology of the word “Conspiracy” is both highly amusing and woefully ignorant. Pray tell us how we are tell the difference between the media that has supposedly uncovered the conspiracies that you believe in and the media that is supposedly covering them up?
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### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2013, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/326 "2013-12-20T18:44:59Z")
> [@se7ensnakes](#):
>
> 1. There is a Conspiracy that the truth of the earth being flat is kept from the general public.
> 2. A flat earth has been disapproved by extensive testimony and scientific evidence.
> 3)Therefore all conspiracies, in general, are equally erroneous.
> 3. Truth is what the media maintains, and by a consensus.
[Which of the conspiracy theories listed on this website](http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/wake_up_america.html) in the left hand column do you think are discredited?
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### Author:  [@MikeF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeF)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2013, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/327 "2013-12-20T20:11:32Z")
OP here. To quote myself from the OP, “I’m all for a good debate but debating with a CT is like trying to convince a true paranoid that no one is out to get him. No amount of proof will ever convince either one, so why waste your time?” I think Psikeyhackr thread proves my point.
Psi - this thread was not intended to talk about 9/11, 9/11 CTs or any other cover-ups in particular. It morphed into that. It more a question about what psychological profile, if any, was common to CTs.
se7ensnakes - I don’t watch Jersey Shore (but I do live there) nor do I buy into most CTs. Now, I feel left out.
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### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/328 "2013-12-20T22:29:53Z")
> [@Jane\_Elliot](#):
>
> My personal favorite flavor of CT is the Birther crowd. There is a particular branch of them that harps incessantly on the ‘fact’ that the .pdf of the President’s birth certificate has layers and anomalies and blah, blah, blah. But none of that matters because the issuing agency has repeated confirmed the BC as certified, valid and complete. They have latched onto something that sounds so damning but is so insignificant.
I admit I haven’t delved too deeply into the Birther claims, but my peripheral observations suggest that this is driven by ignorance about PDFs, layers, anomalies, and photoshopping, much like no-planers are driven by ignorance about video and TV production and no-mooners are driven by ignorance about photography and astronomy. There is much common ground here. Ignorant, loud, unteachable, and proud of it.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [December 20, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/329 "2013-12-20T23:22:22Z")
Hey, if you’ve got truth, why bother with facts?
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### Author:  [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2013, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/330 "2013-12-21T00:55:58Z")
> [@Musicat](#):
>
> I admit I haven’t delved too deeply into the Birther claims, but my peripheral observations suggest that this is driven by ignorance about PDFs, layers, anomalies, and photoshopping, much like no-planers are driven by ignorance about video and TV production and no-mooners are driven by ignorance about photography and astronomy. There is much common ground here. Ignorant, loud, unteachable, and proud of it.
Speaking about the birthers, besides the paranoia I can tell you that one general property of the CTs comes from not being content by following just one conspiracy.
To further support my idea that also political hate is involved in the mix one of the most famous believers on climate change conspiracies, Christopher Monckton, has recently come out as also a Birther.
That came really out of left field, he is not an American and the most likely explanation why he fell for it is that it was a cross pollination from the avenues that still have an ear for people like him, like very conservative Republicans, tea party circles and conservative think thanks that are also full of birthers.
> **[Lord Monckton delights Heartland conference with birther antics](https://grist.org/climate-skeptics/lord-monckton-delights-heartland-conference-with-birther-antics/)**
>
> At the Heartland Institute's climate denial conference, special guest Lord Monckton joked about Obama's birth certificate, and the crowd ate it up.
> [@](#):
>
> With the Heartland Institute suffering from a public relations disaster that caused 11 donors to abandon financial support, one might think the organization would attempt to moderate messaging tactics at its climate denial conference this week.
>
> Or maybe even find an expert who doesn’t freely admit that he “has no scientific qualification” to challenge the science of climate change.
>
> Not quite.
>
> After comparing people who understand global warming with serial killers in a billboard campaign, the organization featured a presentation yesterday that called into question the legitimacy of President Obama’s citizenship.
>
> Enter Lord Christopher Monckton, Heartland’s “mystery guest” who popped in to the conference Tuesday to perform a quirky stand-up comedy routine for a couple hundred eager attendees.
>
> His presentation peeled back yet another layer on the conspiratorial beliefs of many within the climate disinformation community.
>
> Monckton, a man frequently held up as an expert among deniers, started his speech off by boldly admitting his lack of scientific qualifications. He thanked the attendees for having the “courage” to challenge climate scientists, explaining: “It is particularly hard, if like me, you have no scientific qualification to do so.”
>
> Monckton then joked about what he needed to do in order to build his credibility in America.
>
> “I have concluded what one needs to have is a freshly minted Hawaiian birth certificate,” he said, referencing the belief among “birthers” that President Obama’s birth certificate is forged. He displayed a picture of a Hawaiian birth certificate with his personal information filled in. The crowded erupted in laughter.
>
> “I was born at a military hospital. What is marvelous is that this [birth certificate] is just as genuine [as] that of the president of the United States,” said Monckton.
>
> Even with the release of official documents and repeated confirmation from Hawaiian officials, Monckton is an outspoken believer that President Obama’s birth certificate is forged. The conspiracy has gotten so ludicrous in the face of documentary evidence, the Washington Post labeled remaining birthers “crackpots” who “live for their pet conspiracy theory.”
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### Author:  [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2013, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/331 "2013-12-21T01:38:05Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#):
>
> Speaking about the birthers, besides the paranoia I can tell you that one general property of the CTs comes from not being content by following just one conspiracy.
I have seen this called “Crank Magnetism” [Crank magnetism - RationalWiki](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crank_magnetism)
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### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [December 21, 2013, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/332 "2013-12-21T02:48:56Z")
> [@se7ensnakes](#):
>
> Whenever or wherever you find corruption and subsequently criminals you will also find conspiracies. The world “Conspiracy” appear to have been engineered to emotionally represent a ridiculous explanation for something that is simply what the media has uncovered and stated. Not all conspiracies have evidence laid out in front of you but you can logically summarize by the scant evidence and by a fact such as that the media may be controlled and filtered. The other alternative to serious truth seeker is the UNTHINKING PUBLIC. The unthinking public is told what happened and they will in turn go back to whatever it is that unthinking people do… watch jersey shore, Americas got talent, or some over media entertainment.
Piffle.
The issue is not the reality of conspiracies. No one who mocks CT enthusiasts claims that there have never been conspiracies.
The issue is “Conspiracy Theories,” _i.e._, imagined conspiracies that are concocted by ill-informed people to explain events that have much more mundane explanations.
Lincoln was the victim of a conspiracy. JFK was the victim of a lone nutcase, but Conspiracy Theory enthusiasts insist that he was the victim of a conspiracy. The World Trade Center was the target of a conspiracy by members of the al Qaida organization, but Conspiracy Theory enthusiasts imagine that it was the target of the U.S. government, Mossad, the Illuminati, lizard people, or some combination of those groups or others.
The question before us is whether Conspiracy Theory enthusiasm is the result of emotional or psychological disabilities or whether it is simply a single flawed mental aberration.
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### Author:  [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)
#### Post date: [December 22, 2013, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/333 "2013-12-22T03:56:45Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#):
>
> There are 2 major psychological drives behind believing in conspiracy theories.
> …
> To take the Kennedy assassination for example - the world was just previously on the brink of nuclear war. There’s a game of brinksmanship played at the very highest level by a few people. The entire future of the human race is at stake. The idea that one lone nut with a rifle could fundamentally alter such a huge stakes game is deeply uncomfortable for a lot of people.
> [@Zoe](#):
>
> Find someone over the age of seventy who lived through the Kennedy assassination as an adult and the original theories about a conspiracy to kill him don’t seem quite as absurd.
>
> We didn’t have the scientific data at the time to examine what happened so closely. We didn’t hear the shots until years later. We didn’t see all of the film until much later too. The idea of “the magic bullet” wasn’t disproven originally. There is little left to wonder about now, but even Robert Kennedy believed that his brother was murdered by someone powerful. The early demise of Jack Ruby before he could be tried for Oswald’s death was also suspicious. Even the Congressional investigation was reopened.
Remember also that a CIA-backed coup in South Vietnam had resulted in the assassination of President Diem just three weeks earlier, so we were primed for conspiracy thinking.
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> …there is no known existing tool for thermite to cut horizontally through a thick steel column; you might as well appeal to fairies.
Are you suggesting that 9/11 was brought about by the Gay Liberation people? 😉
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