# Truthers and conspiracy theorists
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 30, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174 "2012-08-30T18:54:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 6
### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/101 "2013-12-09T18:41:15Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> Haven’t psychologists heard of experiments like Pavlov’s Dog? So why don’t they expect physicists to do experiments to test the collapsing skyscraper theories?
This makes no sense.
People don’t expect every psychologist to repeat Pavlov’s experiment every time somebody asks a question.
Skyscraper dynamics? Yeah, civil engineers have been studying that for a while and have performed the experiments. Like Pavlov, people don’t repeat old experiments every time somebody asks a question. Especially when those people are too lazy to study the old experiments or even do the basic research to realize they’ve already been done.
Before asking that new experiments get done, maybe you should check that they’ve haven’t already been done.
---
### Author:  [@David\_Lango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Lango)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/102 "2013-12-09T19:01:38Z")
> [@runner pat](#):
>
> Did you know more is spent on corporate subsidies than welfare?
I would like to know how much, if any, of our money spent on the United Nations is jeopardized in light of the establishment’s talk of funding shortfalls for our own entitlements like Social Security or Medicare?
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/103 "2013-12-09T19:03:50Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> This makes no sense.
>
> People don’t expect every psychologist to repeat Pavlov’s experiment every time somebody asks a question.
>
> Skyscraper dynamics? Yeah, civil engineers have been studying that for a while and have performed the experiments. Like Pavlov, people don’t repeat old experiments every time somebody asks a question. Especially when those people are too lazy to study the old experiments or even do the basic research to realize they’ve already been done.
>
> Before asking that new experiments get done, maybe you should check that they’ve haven’t already been done.
NM.
---
### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/104 "2013-12-09T19:09:17Z")
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> I would like to know how much, if any, of our money spent on the United Nations is jeopardized in light of the establishment’s talk of funding shortfalls for our own entitlements like Social Security or Medicare?
What does the U.N. have to do with corporate subsidies? Or Medicare or SS?
---
### Author:  [@David\_Lango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Lango)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/105 "2013-12-09T19:09:36Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> This makes no sense.
>
> People don’t expect every psychologist to repeat Pavlov’s experiment every time somebody asks a question.
>
> Skyscraper dynamics? Yeah, civil engineers have been studying that for a while and have performed the experiments. Like Pavlov, people don’t repeat old experiments every time somebody asks a question. Especially when those people are too lazy to study the old experiments or even do the basic research to realize they’ve already been done.
>
> Before asking that new experiments get done, maybe you should check that they’ve haven’t already been done.
I think the effort is to call into question why the NIST reports ignored evidence of explosives.
I want to know why the controlled demolition of Building 7 looked more conventional. It did not display the black pyroclastic clouds like the twin towers.
---
### Author:  [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/106 "2013-12-09T19:14:20Z")
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> I would like to know how much, if any, of our money spent on the United Nations is jeopardized in light of the establishment’s talk of funding shortfalls for our own entitlements like Social Security or Medicare?
According to [this](http://www.betterworldcampaign.org/issues/funding/how-the-us-funds-the-un.html), the amount spent on the UN by the U.S., if the President’s requests for FY2013 were granted, came to $4.236 billion, which is 0.012% of the federal budget. If we need to cut something, how about our _massive_ defense spending?
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/107 "2013-12-09T19:15:02Z")
> [@runner pat](#):
>
> What does the U.N. have to do with corporate subsidies? Or Medicare or SS?
And what does any of this have to do with the topic of this thread?
Is there a “usual suspects” list when it comes to CTs? Are there any pro-government or pro-Jewish CTs?
---
### Author:  [@David\_Lango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Lango)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/108 "2013-12-09T19:15:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Is this thread supposed to be about conspiracy theorists, or the conspiracy theories themselves?
Read the original post again.
I weighed in because I am one, it’s about folks like me, and so why not cover the material while we’re at it?
---
### Author:  [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/109 "2013-12-09T19:16:23Z")
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> I think the effort is to call into question why the NIST reports ignored evidence of explosives.
>
> I want to know why the controlled demolition of Building 7 looked more conventional. It did not display the black pyroclastic clouds like the twin towers.
So the planes flying into the buildings were all special effects or a secret drug given to thousands of witnesses?
How were the tons of explosives brought into the buildings without being seen? How about all the prep work for demolition and the miles of det cord or electrical cable?
How did the planes not disrupt all the explosives?
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/110 "2013-12-09T19:17:40Z")
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> Read the original post again.
>
> I weighed in because I am one, it’s about folks like me, and so why not cover the material while we’re at it?
Because if it becomes about your long list of elaborate conspiracy theories this thread will turn into an unholy mess going off into an untold number of directions at the same time.
---
### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/111 "2013-12-09T19:17:45Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> I was always under the impression that Science was supposed to be a Truth Movement.
>
> How do you explain the collapse of a couple of skyscrapers in less than 30 seconds without providing data on the distributions of steel and concrete down the buildings?
>
> It is pretty funny that the nation that put men on the Moon and talks about STEM education and Critical Thinking isn’t full of people who ask such questions. 😃
>
> Conspiracies and psychology are irrelevant to physics.
>
> Haven’t psychologists heard of experiments like Pavlov’s Dog? So why don’t they expect physicists to do experiments to test the collapsing skyscraper theories?
>
> [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1nwiMUGbHY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1nwiMUGbHY)
>
> psik
I’m sorry, perhaps I’m just low on coffee this morning, but I have no idea what on earth you’re trying to say here. Would you mind rephrasing a bit?
---
### Author:  [@David\_Lango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Lango)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/112 "2013-12-09T19:18:54Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> And what does any of this have to do with the topic of this thread?
>
> Is there a “usual suspects” list when it comes to CTs? Are there any pro-government or pro-Jewish CTs?
Yes of course there is a “usual suspects” list, and correct I have yet to see anyone suspicious of the establishment that is pro-big government.
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/113 "2013-12-09T19:23:05Z")
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> Yes of course there is a “usual suspects” list, and correct I have yet to see anyone suspicious of the establishment that is pro-big government.
Could we have your list, please?
Also, “correct”? I didn’t say anything about there not being any pro-“big government” CTs. In fact, I didn’t even use the term “big government”.
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/114 "2013-12-09T19:29:47Z")
What are some of the usual euphemisms for Jews used by CTs?
Is “House of Rothschild” a euphemism for Jews?
---
### Author:  [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/115 "2013-12-09T19:35:47Z")
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> A truther doesn’t necessarily have to be a birther. I just happen to sympathize with all of them.
That’s pretty much the mark of a conspiracy theorist. One wild theory begets another. Have you read Carl Sagan’s book, [The Demon Haunted World?](http://www.amazon.com/Demon-Haunted-World-Science-Candle-Dark/dp/0345409469/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386617600&sr=1-1&keywords=demon+haunted+world) He addresses this syndrome in it.
I highly recommend the book, available world-wide.
> [@runner pat](#):
>
> How did the planes not disrupt all the explosives?
What planes? 😃
---
### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/116 "2013-12-09T19:38:26Z")
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> Ok I’ll go repair my page and clean it up, thanks.
Hooray! Ignorance fought! Maybe, just maybe, there’s a chance of helping this guy out of the rut of CT thinking he’s got himself stuck in-
> [@](#):
>
> I’m still a […] “birther”, “truther”, “CT-er”. I can’t help it.
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> You’re welcome smarty pants.
>
> Want my opinion on The Theory of Evolution while I’m at it?
>
> I think a tornado has a better chance of roaring through a trailer park and leaving behind a gleaming Boeing 747-400 all fueled and ready for take off.
_ **headdesk** _
_Never fuckin’ mind._
We’ve got some work to do… If you make that thread on evolution, I can help clear up some misconceptions (and for you to fall for that bullshit “tornado in a junkyard” analogy means [we have a lot of ignorance left to fight](http://www.patheos.com/blogs/daylightatheism/essays/the-tornado-in-the-junkyard/)).
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> I listened to the entire thing, finally. You are right and I beg pardon for being wrong. I am still very suspicious.
Well, it’s a start. ☹
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> Those terms are individual derrogatory comments I’ve collected along the way from different episodes. One can doubt that a paper fire can destroy a steel framed fire proof building and still take Obama’s online posting of his birth certificate at face value.
>
> A truther doesn’t necessarily have to be a birther. I just happen to sympathize with all of them.
However, a truther is considerably more likely to also be a birther, and vice versa. Why? Because both theories rely on the same essential train of thought that all conspiracies rely on: deny all available evidence, then claim that there’s no evidence. Hold up anything counter to the establishment as reliable _because_ it’s contrary to the establishment; denounce anything supporting the establishment as unreliable _because_ it’s supporting the establishment. It’s a part of [crank magnetism](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Crank_magnetism).
Look. At this point, the logic used to claim that Obama’s birth certificate was forged can be used to claim that the _moon_ did not exist. That’s how far down the rabbit hole we’ve gone. And it’s just _tiring_. Especially when “truthers” all too often have bad information or are lacking important pieces or just straight-up _deny_ that the evidence is present to begin with. For example, your excerpt from Kennedy’s speech - you had _completely wrong information_, and yet you didn’t spend the time looking it up and checking it.
Also, know why these terms are seen as derogatory? Because the beliefs these people hold are so contrary to observable reality, so _looney_ at times, that it’s impossible to take them seriously.
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> I was always under the impression that Science was supposed to be a Truth Movement.
It is. There’s a reason we call these people ““truthers”” and not “truthers”. They’re searching for “truth” in the same way that Ken Ham is - they already know, before any evidence is present, exactly what the “truth” is, and they will bend all available evidence to support their preconceptions.
> [@](#):
>
> How do you explain the collapse of a couple of skyscrapers in less than 30 seconds without providing data on the distributions of steel and concrete down the buildings?
Good question. Here’s what you do: you don’t let this question stand; you spend a little time _researching_. You look into the official reports, examine the data gathered by actual scientific authorities. You examine whatever solid evidence you can find. Here’s the explanation which most authorities on the subject have concluded matches the evidence best: the design of the towers, while revolutionary, basically meant that the type of pancaking and sudden collapse that happened was almost guaranteed to happen if the center was struck by an object of that mass, velocity, and explosive capability. Nothing. _NOTHING_. Requires the invention of a massive conspiracy planting detonators containing an as-of-yet unknown substance (no, “nanothermite” is not actually a thing). It’s really that simple. It doesn’t help that many of the resources commonly used (Loose Change, anyone?) are notoriously riddled with complete misinformation.
> [@](#):
>
> It is pretty funny that the nation that put men on the Moon and talks about STEM education and Critical Thinking isn’t full of people who ask such questions. 😃
We did ask those questions! And we found solid, reliable answers with strong evidence backing them. We examined alternative hypotheses but found them extremely lacking.
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> Unfortunately not all of them get out of bed in the morning every day, feel like it or not, and go to work.
You are aware that there are approximately 3 people hunting for work for every one job opening, right? Because this is a pretty important piece of information to have when throwing around claims like “many Americans are lazy bums content to mooch off of welfare for as long as possible”.
> [@](#):
>
> I sympathize with the conservative rant against redistributing my wealth to someone else who can’t even get up and do the dishes.
What, you mean people like [**Happy Lendervedder**](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=709881)? Seriously, spend a couple of minutes and read that thread. It might be eye-opening for you. I mean, you’ve shown that you’re at least capable of admitting you’re wrong. Maybe we’ll be able to wean you of more of your irrational beliefs. The fact is, most people on unemployment don’t _want_ to be there. They simply can’t find work!
---
### Author:  [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/117 "2013-12-09T19:41:18Z")
> [@Capt\_Kirk](#):
>
> circling articles in the NYT in red crayon.
>
> I just don’t get it
>
> **CAPT**
Maybe because it is in green crayon … sheehs.:rolleyes:
😛
---
### Author:  [@psikeyhackr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psikeyhackr)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/118 "2013-12-09T19:41:24Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> Before asking that new experiments get done, maybe you should check that they’ve haven’t already been done.
Seen 'em. Here is one:
Do I need to explain how dumb it is.
If you can provide a link to one that you think is relevant, I would love to see it. But that would be getting off the truther, conspiracy topic.
It just persents a problem if some people are just called “conspiracy theorists” by other people who don’t get the physics. But then if the majority of people are wrong about 9/11 then that creates a HUGE problem.
psik
---
### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/119 "2013-12-09T19:46:10Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> Do I need to explain how dumb it is.
_Yes_. Yes you do.
---
### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/120 "2013-12-09T19:52:01Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> Do I need to explain how dumb it is.
I would love to see you try.
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