# Truthers and conspiracy theorists
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174
**Category:** Great Debates
**Created:** [August 30, 2012, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174 "2012-08-30T18:54:48Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 7
### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/121 "2013-12-09T19:54:51Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> I was always under the impression that Science was supposed to be a Truth Movement.
>
> How do you explain the collapse of a couple of skyscrapers in less than 30 seconds without providing data on the distributions of steel and concrete down the buildings?
Don’t forget, the airliners are all loaded with the chemicals that make chemtrails.
Nobody even _KNOWS_ how hot that stuff burns.
---
### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/122 "2013-12-09T19:56:52Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#):
>
> Don’t forget, the airliners are all loaded with the chemicals that make chemtrails.
>
> Nobody even _KNOWS_ how hot that stuff burns.
I want to hug this post, then maybe throttle it. 😃 I was just waiting for the right moment to drop that reference, and now you’ve beaten me to the punch.
---
### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/123 "2013-12-09T19:57:00Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> What are some of the usual euphemisms for Jews used by CTs?
> Is “House of Rothschild” a euphemism for Jews?
I thought it was a euphemism for _kikes_…
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/124 "2013-12-09T21:14:25Z")
Contrast [the Wiki write-up on Rothschilds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rothschild_family) with [the first article on the list when I Googled “House of Rothschild”](http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/the_rothschild_bloodline.htm). The Wiki article is pretty easy to follow but that other article reads like one of Robert Anton Wilson’s stranger fantasies.
edited to add: The latter article comes from a larger website [listing craploads of conspiracy theories.](http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/wake_up_america.html)
---
### Author:  [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/125 "2013-12-09T21:41:40Z")
If I were to tell you the government was willing to stage a false flag terrorist attack on its own people and blame it on a foreign nation as a justification to go to war, would you call me a conspiracy theorist?
If so, I point out that we were one president’s signature away from doing so…in 1962.
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Northwoods](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/126 "2013-12-09T21:59:29Z")
> [@Stringbean](#):
>
> If I were to tell you the government was willing to stage a false flag terrorist attack on its own people and blame it on a foreign nation as a justification to go to war, would you call me a conspiracy theorist?
>
> If so, I point out that we were one president’s signature away from doing so…in 1962.
>
> [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation\_Northwoods](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods)
Not close to implementation at all, they were stupid ideas immediately shot down by the Prez. From your cite:
> [@](#):
>
> The continuing push against the Cuban government by internal elements of the U.S. military and intelligence communities (the failed Bay of Pigs Invasion, the Cuban Project, etc.) had already prompted President John F. Kennedy to attempt to rein in burgeoning hardline anti-Communist sentiment that was intent on proactive, aggressive action against communist movements around the globe. After the Bay of Pigs, Kennedy had fired CIA director Allen W. Dulles, Deputy Director Charles P. Cabell, and Deputy Director Richard Bissell, and turned his attention towards Vietnam. Kennedy had also stripped the CIA of responsibility for paramilitary operations like the Bay of Pigs and turned them over to the U.S. Department of Defense and the Joint Chiefs of Staff, which, as Commander in Chief, Kennedy could more directly control. Personally, Kennedy’s attempt to curtail the CIA’s extensive Cold War and paramilitary operations was a direct expression of this concern.
>
> Kennedy personally rejected the Northwoods proposal, and it would now be the Joint Chiefs’ turn to incur his displeasure. A JCS/Pentagon document (Ed Lansdale memo) dated 16 March 1962 titled MEETING WITH THE PRESIDENT, 16 MARCH 1962 reads: “General Lemnitzer commented that the military had contingency plans for U.S. intervention. Also it had plans for creating plausible pretexts to use force, with the pretext either attacks on U.S. aircraft or a Cuban action in Latin America for which we could retaliate. The President said bluntly that we were not discussing the use of military force, that General Lemnitzer might find the U.S so engaged in Berlin or elsewhere that he couldn’t use the contemplated 4 divisions in Cuba.”
---
### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/127 "2013-12-09T21:59:34Z")
Just yesterday my daughter and I stopped by an artist’s studio–it’s Art Tour in our community and lots of artists have open studios where they’re selling things and showing off their work.
Anyway, coincidentally this particular artist was a metalworker. She showed my 7 year old daughter how she put a steel rod into a furnace until it was hot. Then she took the hot metal out of the furnace and pounded on it for a minute, turning a metal rod into a twisted vine shape.
So what does that prove? It proves that hot metal bends more easily than cold metal. Blacksmiths for thousands of years have known this simple fact, that hot metal can be bent and shaped with ease, yet cold metal is tough.
So what happens when you take steel beams that are strong enough to hold up a skyscraper when the steel beams are at room temperature, and pour a bunch of jet fuel and paper on them and light the jet fuel on fire? The steel won’t melt obviously, it takes much hotter temperatures to melt steel. But hot metal, even metal that isn’t red hot, is much weaker than cold metal. A girder that can hold a certain load at room temperature can fail under the exact same load when the girder is heated.
My daughter and I saw a simple demonstration of this physical phenomenon just yesterday. Coincidence? Or did it happen for a reason?
---
### Author:  [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/128 "2013-12-09T22:16:06Z")
> [@Stringbean](#):
>
> If I were to tell you the government was willing to stage a false flag terrorist attack on its own people and blame it on a foreign nation as a justification to go to war, would you call me a conspiracy theorist?
No. Governments are capable of truly horrifying things in attempts to advance ideology or personal goals. But there’s a difference between what you’re proposing and the general nuttiness of CTers. If you were to say “this particular event _was_ a false flag and the official story is all wrong”, then I’d expect some damn good evidence. Not just “It would theoretically be consistent for it to be a false flag”. Actual evidence. And this is the problem.
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/129 "2013-12-09T22:16:27Z")
If someone only believed in a third of the conspiracies from the third link I provided in post #124, wouldn’t they be hiding in a cave somewhere out of fear that 2/3 of the Earth’s population are involved in evil conspiracies? I’m pretty sure that if you including _every_ conspiracy theory on that list you would have to have the aliens stored at Area 51 call in support to make up for the deficit of people on this planet.
---
### Author:  [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/130 "2013-12-09T22:22:03Z")
Conspiracy theorists work for the government’s disinformation campaign to distract from the real conspiracies. Except me! You can trust me.
---
### Author:  [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/131 "2013-12-09T22:54:28Z")
> [@marshmallow](#):
>
> Conspiracy theorists work for the government’s disinformation campaign to distract from the real conspiracies.
I have suggested to conspiracy theorists that they are being hoaxed to distract people from effective joint action against real problems.
Aside from the occasional head asploding, this approach seldom bears fruit. ☹
---
### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/132 "2013-12-09T23:13:46Z")
Are there any studies as to whether or no CTs see conspiracy everywhere or just in one area? For example, if you are a “We never went to the Moon” CTer then are you also likely to be a “9/11 was faked” CTer as well or do you just lock in on one? Incidently, my SIL was explaining to us that there is a tunnel that runs from Denver Airport (DIA) to Philadelphia because she saw a documentary on it on youtube.
My take is that there is a level of self-aggrandisement in CTs. It’s not only the “I know something the common people do not.” Watch any show. These people think they should be allowed onto air force bases or every room in DIA like private offices and transformer rooms. Failure to allow them carte blanche to go anywhere they want proves the conspiracy.
My favorite question for them is why if everything is so super-secret do ‘they’ drop clues? Why would the New World Order do business as New World Consulting to build DIA instead of calling themselves Jim Bob Septic Cleaning? Why paint murals showing your super secret plan to take over the world (maybe by bringing mole men to the Western White House via the tunnel from Philadelphia)?
---
### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/133 "2013-12-09T23:40:57Z")
Yes, people who believe in one CT are more likely to believe in other CTs, even when the two CTs conflict.
This was posted earlier: [http://www.academia.edu/1207098/Dead\_and\_alive\_Beliefs\_in\_contradictory\_conspiracy\_theories](http://www.academia.edu/1207098/Dead_and_alive_Beliefs_in_contradictory_conspiracy_theories)
> [@](#):
>
> In Study 1(n= 137), the more participants believed that Princess Diana faked her own death, the more they believed that she was murdered.
---
### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [December 9, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/134 "2013-12-09T23:53:06Z")
> [@andros](#):
>
> I’m sorry, perhaps I’m just low on coffee this morning, but I have no idea what on earth you’re trying to say here. Would you mind rephrasing a bit?
Go read [Skyscrapers on fire, not collapsing](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=578021) or [Give me your 9/11 conspiracy theories! And/or their debunking](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=518232) from a few years ago to see the issue he is trying to revive once again. (Not that it will be worth your time, but that is as close to coherence as you will get on the topic.)
---
### Author:  [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2013, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/135 "2013-12-10T00:00:22Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> Yes, people who believe in one CT are more likely to believe in other CTs, even when the two CTs conflict.
Looks like I’ll have to read some of those articles cited.
---
### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/136 "2013-12-10T00:37:35Z")
> [@psikeyhackr](#):
>
> Do I need to explain how dumb it is.
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#):
>
> _Yes_. Yes you do.
Actually, No. He does not have to do any such thing in this thread. This thread is not a zombie revival of the threads to which I have already linked.
This thread addresses the issue of the factors, (psychological, emotional, intellectual, etc.), that drive people to engage in CT thinking.
Anyone who has a desperate need to examine the paucity of evidence and logic inherent in the majority of Conspiracy Theories needs to open a new thread to do so.
[/Moderating]
---
### Author:  [@David\_Lango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Lango)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2013, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/137 "2013-12-10T02:16:05Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#):
>
> Are there any studies as to whether or no CTs see conspiracy everywhere or just in one area? For example, if you are a “We never went to the Moon” CTer then are you also likely to be a “9/11 was faked” CTer as well or do you just lock in on one? Incidently, my SIL was explaining to us that there is a tunnel that runs from Denver Airport (DIA) to Philadelphia because she saw a documentary on it on youtube.
>
> My take is that there is a level of self-aggrandisement in CTs. It’s not only the “I know something the common people do not.” Watch any show. These people think they should be allowed onto air force bases or every room in DIA like private offices and transformer rooms. Failure to allow them carte blanche to go anywhere they want proves the conspiracy.
>
> My favorite question for them is why if everything is so super-secret do ‘they’ drop clues? Why would the New World Order do business as New World Consulting to build DIA instead of calling themselves Jim Bob Septic Cleaning? Why paint murals showing your super secret plan to take over the world (maybe by bringing mole men to the Western White House via the tunnel from Philadelphia)?
I consider myself “average” on CT’s as I don’t buy into everything. I’ll look at everything with curiosity and a grain of salt. I’ve seen the “there was no plane” 9/11 idea, the missile idea, the military plane idea, and they’re as phony as the NIST reports that ignore the use of explosives.
I reviewed all sorts of other hogwash about knocking down wood framed buildings, how the firemen can’t tell the difference between molten steel or aluminum (which doesn’t glow, it turns black and goes away if you play with it under an acetylene torch). The former CIA insider claiming that remote detonation and wireless explosives brought down the twin towers did get a nod from me as plausible. All I know is the official story doesn’t explain what can be reviewed over and over on YouTube.
I don’t know whether most CT’s think Sandy Hook was a hoax or not. I saw the material and refuse to take sides. I hope that’s the average “response”. But I will say I am sufficiently suspicious of the establishment, after having been lied to, and wouldn’t put it past the establishment to create a hoax as deplorable as that.
Hope that helps with your collective perspective of a typical CT’r.
I saw where one CT’r “followed the money” on 9/11 and was surprised to learn the Rothschilds claim to be Jewish. I would have guessed Catholic, or perhaps just plain atheist.
Why are so many dumbed down people like me embracing conspiracy theories?
It’s because we KNOW we’ve been lied to. I used to have a “User’s License” as the ultimate consumer of dynamite and primer cord issued by the Washington State Department of Labor and Industries. When I saw the TV “live account” of the second plane hitting the South tower on that fateful day I was horrified to see both twin towers on fire. Smoke billowing out both steel framed fireproof skyscapers.
Then the unexplainable happened. BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM gone! Both towers! Then eight hours later, a much more conventional looking controlled demolition of Building 7. No black pyroclastic clouds like the twin towers exhibited.
What happened cannot be explained by a “collapse”. I may only be the sweat and muscle behind hard work, but I’ve got a brain that learned all about the concrete I used a jackhammer on, just does not “go away”-- just because something heavy is pounding on top of it. I may be strong but I’m not stupid.
Perhaps there are other ‘up close and personal’ things that get a person as suspicious as myself to start questioning everything. 9/11/2001 has floored me with the understanding that my government lies to me and the news isn’t calling them on it.
So I read with comfort the words from JFK, and hope for a day when we can attain the honest investigative journalism he called for. I see promise with our young and this internet venue.
I need to digress and clean out some of the rants and fix that truncated JFK piece I had no idea about in the webpage I made to collect what I thought was important.
I read that entire thread about the man who would go bankrupt by going to work at less pay by reason of daycare for his kids adding financial strain too.
I care.
And I seriously take issue with the establishment lying to us all.
Until we get to the bottom of 9/11/2001 we aren’t going anywhere free or independent. All I smell is tyranny.
The illegitimate establishment that would have us all unarmed in public so they can be more comfortable enjoying their double standard of liberty and privacy while the rest of us all turn ourselves in and sign up for obamacare… is LYING.
That’s the bottom line. Perhaps the magic bullet did it for others, but I was in kindergarten when that happened. 9/11/2001 is the lie that riles me and has me questioning everything.
So from an incurable “conspiracy theorist”, yours truly, I hope I’ve shed some light on what makes a CT’r tick.
---
### Author:  [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/138 "2013-12-10T02:41:33Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#):
>
> Not close to implementation at all, they were stupid ideas immediately shot down by the Prez.
It was on the president’s desk, already having been approved by the Secretary of Defense and joint chiefs of staff.
I should think they wouldn’t waste the president’s time with stupid ideas they have no intention of implementing. Consider me naive I guess. We all know the highest-ranking officials in the country are prone to frivolity on matters of national security.
---
### Author:  [@David\_Lango](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Lango)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2013, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/139 "2013-12-10T02:55:03Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> Just yesterday my daughter and I stopped by an artist’s studio–it’s Art Tour in our community and lots of artists have open studios where they’re selling things and showing off their work.
>
> Anyway, coincidentally this particular artist was a metalworker. She showed my 7 year old daughter how she put a steel rod into a furnace until it was hot. Then she took the hot metal out of the furnace and pounded on it for a minute, turning a metal rod into a twisted vine shape.
>
> So what does that prove? It proves that hot metal bends more easily than cold metal. Blacksmiths for thousands of years have known this simple fact, that hot metal can be bent and shaped with ease, yet cold metal is tough.
>
> So what happens when you take steel beams that are strong enough to hold up a skyscraper when the steel beams are at room temperature, and pour a bunch of jet fuel and paper on them and light the jet fuel on fire? The steel won’t melt obviously, it takes much hotter temperatures to melt steel. But hot metal, even metal that isn’t red hot, is much weaker than cold metal. A girder that can hold a certain load at room temperature can fail under the exact same load when the girder is heated.
>
> My daughter and I saw a simple demonstration of this physical phenomenon just yesterday. Coincidence? Or did it happen for a reason?
I argue with my best friend about “fate” or “destiny” or "when your number is up, it’s up, and when it’s not you can’t even commit suicide…
I’d like to think we all are free moral agents able to change our paths for the better when we learn. But he has a point, if the “Creator” is not bound by linear time, is able to walk forward to review my death (right? no? ok fine, but I’m not an atheist)
Your heated steel girder is not the gigantic steel used to construct a skyscraper with. AND you fail to consider how fast the kerosene burned off, AND how all the steel that was at ambient temperature failed to slow it’s decent.
I’ll be your “mythbuster”.
---
### Author:  [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)
#### Post date: [December 10, 2013, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/truthers-and-conspiracy-theorists/633174/140 "2013-12-10T03:41:38Z")
> [@David\_Lango](#):
>
> I’ll be your “mythbuster”.
No, thank you.
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