# Try the Japanese! It's invigorating! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 24, 2006, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945 "2006-04-24T04:52:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/41 "2006-04-25T17:04:26Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > So, how _you_ doin–_thwap_ > :: ahem :: > Sorry. _ladles on thick southern accent_ Why, suh! _flutters eyelashes_ Ah am astonished! _flutters eye . . . nope, sorry, can’t keep that up_ Say I’m flattered and be done with it. > [@](#): > > And to think that I didn’t go to the World SF convention when it was in Toronto a couple of years ago. _twitch_ Yeah, I missed it, too. I so wanted to go. The only WorldCon I’ve made it to was the one in Philadelphia in 2001 (the “Millenium Philcon”! How could I resist?). I’d planned to go to Boscone in 2004, but I got a job shortly before and really couldn’t justify taking time off from a contract job when I’d been out of work for more than a year. And Terry Pratchett was the GoH, too. _sigh_ Cons are fun. > [@](#): > > I’ll see what I can do. That could be… tricky, given that they were interwoven with other authors’ posts on Usenet. (Remember Usenet?) Remember it? I’m still ON it, although not as much as I used to be. Most of what I used to use Usenet for is now on mailing lists. (And why isn’t the bottom and right side of the Quote box showing up in Preview? Will it show up after posting? Ah, mysteries.) ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/42 "2006-04-25T17:11:53Z")
> [@Necros](#): > > Oh, and by the way, **Cerowyn** ’s sentence translates to: “Let’s drink! Two buildings, please!” Not quite sure why you’d want to drink buildings, though… 😉 Okay, smart ass… 😉 Honestly, I couldn’t remember how to write it in Romaji. How’s that for bad? In the IME, you type “bi-ru” (SDMB has trouble with the katakana so I can’t put it here, but it’s bu, _nobashion_, ru); for the life of me I couldn’t remember the conventional Romaji spelling. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/43 "2006-04-25T17:13:36Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Would it be a good idea to start with something simpler, like, say, _Winnie the Pooh_? You know, kids books are actually more difficult than you’d think to learn from. Kids actually usually have a pretty decent grasp on grammar and decent vocabulary by the time they start reading as opposed to adults who have no problem with the written part but don’t know the grammar or the words. So you’re reading kinda simple boring stuff but it’s still just beyond your comprehension. Plus, in Japanese, once you start learning kanji, going back and reading in just kana is kind of annoying, almost like reading in romaji. The kanji make it pretty easy to skim a sentence and get the gist. What I’d like to have is more books that have _furigana_, the kana printed over the kanji but it’s tough to figure out from Amazon.jp which books have those plus a lot of the books I’m interested in (liek the Harry Potter), don’t have them. ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/44 "2006-04-25T17:20:07Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > What I’d like to have is more books that have _furigana_, the kana printed over the kanji but it’s tough to figure out from Amazon.jp which books have those plus a lot of the books I’m interested in (liek the Harry Potter), don’t have them. When I get home tonight, I will dig up my list of books that have _furigana_ and post it here. A fellow _gaijin_ in Tokyo made it up for me last year when I promised for the 100th time to learn to read properly (I’m finally enrolled in a class, although I’m only a few weeks into it). ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/45 "2006-04-25T17:40:52Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > You know, kids books are actually more difficult than you’d think to learn from. Kids actually usually have a pretty decent grasp on grammar and decent vocabulary by the time they start reading as opposed to adults who have no problem with the written part but don’t know the grammar or the words. So you’re reading kinda simple boring stuff but it’s still just beyond your comprehension. So beginner books for adults would be designed differently than beginner books for children? Does this happen a lot? Is it different for different languages? ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/46 "2006-04-25T19:46:57Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > So beginner books for adults would be designed differently than beginner books for children? Does this happen a lot? Is it different for different languages? Yep, there are reems and reems of acedemic papers out there on the differences between adult and child learners. For starters, the subject matter is gonna be entirely different. “The cat goes meow meow” (neko ha nya nya nakimasu) will captivate a young child and quickly bore an adult. And the child will pretty much know how words in their language fit together while an adult learner will have no idea and need lots of instruction. Think about it. A kid learning to read already knows how to talk, he’s just learning how to fit the symbols to sounds. The adult learner is learning everything. ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/47 "2006-04-25T20:50:00Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > “The cat goes meow meow” (neko ha nya nya nakimasu) I find your use of “ha” here very interesting. Do you use NJStar or something, and so you’re used to having to type “wa” this way, was it a typo, or what? Not trying to be mean (sometimes words come through differently on the board). Just thought it was fascinating, especially since you said you don’t do a lot of conversational stuff. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/48 "2006-04-25T21:02:49Z")
> [@Necros](#): > > I find your use of “ha” here very interesting. Do you use NJStar or something, and so you’re used to having to type “wa” this way, was it a typo, or what? Not trying to be mean (sometimes words come through differently on the board). Just thought it was fascinating, especially since you said you don’t do a lot of conversational stuff. 🙂 At home, I use JWPCE and, at work, the windows thingy. I always type “ha” 'cause that’s what it is. Hmmm, I hadn’t even thought about how you have to know how it’s pronounced. I wonder if I can the Japanese to show up in this message: 猫はニャニャ鳴きます。\* \*It showed up for me on preview. Huh, I wonder if you’re supposed to use “to” with “naku”? ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/49 "2006-04-25T21:09:52Z")
> [@tremorviolet](#): > > Huh, I wonder if you’re supposed to use “to” with “naku”? My understanding is yes; it’s just like iu. And thanks for clearing that up. I use NJStar, and it irritates me that I have to type HA instead of it knowing that the WA I type here should be rendered as は so I suspected that was why you wrote it like that. ---
**Author:** ![tremorviolet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e47774/32.png) [@tremorviolet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tremorviolet)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2006, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/50 "2006-04-25T23:07:21Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > When I get home tonight, I will dig up my list of books that have _furigana_ and post it here. A fellow _gaijin_ in Tokyo made it up for me last year when I promised for the 100th time to learn to read properly (I’m finally enrolled in a class, although I’m only a few weeks into it). That would be beyond cool. I’ve heard there are bunko editions of the classics out there with furigana but I haven’t been able to find any. I’m working my way (soooooo slowly) through a little book of traditional “obake” (ghost) stories but could definitely use more reading material. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/51 "2006-04-26T02:22:41Z")
While rearranging Stack One of my modest Terry Pratchett collection, I just found a copy of _Teach Yourself Japanese_ at the back of my bookshelf. I’d forgotten all about it. Not anymore… 🙂 Hmm. It doesn’t seem to have any actual Japanese characters in it. Might that be a bit misleading? ---
**Author:** ![Necros](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/necros/32/11086_2.png) [@Necros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Necros)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/52 "2006-04-26T14:34:48Z")
Well, it depends. It probably won’t be _wrong_ or anything, but it will be in romaji. If you want to learn to read, you’re going to definitely need to start with kana, but even a romaji book will help you start learning common phrases and grammar. I say go ahead and start reading it. It won’t hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2006, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/53 "2006-04-26T16:25:04Z")
> [@Necros](#): > > Well, it depends. It probably won’t be _wrong_ or anything, but it will be in romaji. If you want to learn to read, you’re going to definitely need to start with kana, but even a romaji book will help you start learning common phrases and grammar. I say go ahead and start reading it. It won’t hurt. I kinda skimmed it a bit last night, and I wonder whether it’s better for me to keep to the kana/immersion method, especially if I start this course in June… ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945/54 "2006-05-07T00:11:40Z")
Well, it looks like, due to Work Craziness[sup]TM[/sup], I won’t have the time or energy to take the Japanese course until September. Sigh. But I’m still looking forward to it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-the-japanese-its-invigorating/353945.md?page=2)