# Try, try again . . . House votes for most troops to be out of Iraq by 4/1/08 **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 13, 2007, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594 "2007-07-13T02:50:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/41 "2007-07-14T16:00:34Z")
I have long believed that our systems of checks and balances is so marvelously structured because the men who built it didn’t trust each other any further than they could toss one another. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/42 "2007-07-14T16:03:47Z")
[QUOTE=elucidator] I believe Sens. Lugar and Warner have expresssed a similar opinion, by demanding a new authorization be placed before them. If we need a new one, doesn’t that implicitly suggest that the old one is broken? [/QUOTE] What do you mean by “broken”? It’s still on the books, so it still has legal validity. I think it’s “broken” in the sense that we, the people, no longer support it. But the way to get rid of it is to revoke it by an act of Congress. Otherwise, we’re stuck with it, broken or not. In fact, it’s time to at least modify the AUMF that got us into Afghanistan, too. That one is waaaaaay too broad, and could even be used by Bush to continue the Iraq war if the AUMF that authorized it were revoked. If someone else were in the WH, we might not have to worry so much about this. But Bush is so convinced that he’s right, he’ll look for any excuse to continue his foolish venture at nation building in Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/43 "2007-07-14T16:19:25Z")
[Even Iraq’s own PM says we can leave any time; they can handle it now.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070714/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=Amix8S4XqjJPlxF4un3VVnys0NUE) So what further excuse is left for not doing just that? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 14, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/44 "2007-07-14T20:38:11Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] [Even Iraq’s own PM says we can leave any time; they can handle it now.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070714/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=Amix8S4XqjJPlxF4un3VVnys0NUE) So what further excuse is left for not doing just that? [/QUOTE] They might **say** that, [but . . .](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=428171) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/45 "2007-07-16T19:58:18Z")
Harry Reid has [announced](http://thinkprogress.org/2007/07/16/reid-filibuster) that if the Senate Pubs want to filibuster this bill, they don’t get to do the customary nominal filibuster where the other side simply counts up its pro-cloture votes and drops the bill if it doesn’t have the 60 votes needed. No, they’ll have to stay up all night – tomorrow night – and hold the floor, like it was in the old days, before the 1975 revision to the cloture rule. Shrewd move, or something that might backfire? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/46 "2007-07-16T20:11:17Z")
Fuck shrewd manuevers. Fuck worrying about “backfire”. Put their goddam feet to the goddam fire! If they want to try to sell their load of horseshit, let them stand up and do it. I can understand, to some degree, a strategy of patience, every day that passes strenghthens the anti-war position, but this is a situation where the perfect is the enemy of the good enough. The vast majority of the people are behind us, let the Pubbies obstruct that will if they dare. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2007, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/47 "2007-07-16T20:31:30Z")
I should have said, “Senate hawks,” not “Senate Pubs.” There will be Pubs and Dems (or, some would say, RINOs and DINOs) on both sides of this bill. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/48 "2007-07-18T18:47:04Z")
[Aaaaaaaand the bill goes down in flames.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/18/AR2007071800482.html?hpid=topnews) Guess that’s that. For now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/49 "2007-07-18T18:50:14Z")
Only 4 Republicans joined the Dems, making the vote 52-47, quite a bit short of the needed 60 votes. And of course the Pubs can generally count on Lieberman to vote with them on this issue. We’ll see if things change in Sept. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2007, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/50 "2007-07-18T19:15:27Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] The key thing, in my mind, is to get the drawdown started. I think we’re just giving the Iraqis a crutch in terms of their getting their political act together. [/QUOTE] Odd, isn’t it, that the party that understands the need to limit welfare so that the safety net doesn’t become a hammock is so incapable of recognizing that the exact same principle applies here… ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/51 "2007-07-19T00:00:49Z")
[QUOTE=BrainGlutton] [Aaaaaaaand the bill goes down in flames.](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/18/AR2007071800482.html?hpid=topnews) Guess that’s that. For now. [/QUOTE] There’s still an expiration date to the existing funding bill. The one the Reps want to keep filibustering wouldn’t take effect until October. Before that, we’ll have the September Reports following the August Vacation, and more GOP incumbents staring down the barrels of their polling numbers. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2007, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594/52 "2007-07-19T00:39:02Z")
[Reid now says he won’t allow a vote on the Defense Authorization Bill until the Pubs stop filibustering on Iraq.](http://electioncentral.tpmcafe.com/blog/electioncentral/2007/jul/18/breaking_reid_yanks_defense_authorization_bill_to_force_gops_hand) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/try-try-again-house-votes-for-most-troops-to-be-out-of-iraq-by-4-1-08/411594.md?page=2)