# Trying to buy a used car from a dealer. Are they insane or off or just me? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 6, 2024, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536 "2024-06-06T00:34:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![snowthx](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowthx/32/10660_2.png) [@snowthx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snowthx)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/41 "2024-06-07T00:08:36Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > Let’s say you finance thru the dealership. Might you get a lower price, since they will expect to make money in interest, or do they not see any benefit from financing? AIUI, the more you finance, the better the rate they’ll offer you. So, there must be incentive for them to get you to use the dealer finacing. > [@Quintas](#): > > What determines whether the salesman rides with you on a test drive or just hands you the keys? I suspect it has to do with your credit score. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/42 "2024-06-07T00:12:54Z")
We had a recent thread about basically this sort of price padding via fees: > [@Should merchants be made to stop adding fees to your purchase and instead roll all that into their prices?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/should-merchants-be-made-to-stop-adding-fees-to-your-purchase-and-instead-roll-all-that-into-their-prices/1001421): > > California has a law coming into effect soon which will ban “fees” from hotels and restaurants (at least). I, for one, love this idea. The merchants are not happy but I do not see the problem. They can just roll in the money they make from those fees into their prices. Yes, prices go up but they all do so the playing field is still level. I am increasingly annoyed by “fees” added on. For example, a huge restaurant group in Chicago (Lettuce Entertain You) adds a 2.5% surcharge to all bill… ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/43 "2024-06-07T00:14:13Z")
> [@Quintas](#): > > What determines whether the salesman rides with you on a test drive or just hands you the keys? My WAG is that it depends on whether the salesman feels like going for a ride or has other things he has to do. ---
**Author:** ![Quintas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/48db29/32.png) [@Quintas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quintas)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/44 "2024-06-07T00:33:47Z")
We hadn’t reached that stage yet. I spoke to all 3 briefly about the car then asked to take a test drive. That’s my experience overall aside from those 3 examples. About 1/3 of the time they’ll just hand you the keys and the rest of the time they want to come along. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/45 "2024-06-07T01:18:24Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > > [@kayaker](#): > > > > It was the end of December and I heard that dealerships were eager to move cars. > > One of the worst times to buy, but January is good. People still do buy cars for Christmas. Interesting. My understanding (which may not be correct!) is that once the new model year cars are coming out, you may do better on the old model year. Our 1998 Civic, bought in December 1998 when the 1999s were out , for example. Funnily enough, with no planning whatsoever (each was a matter of replacing a terminally ill predecessor), our last 3 car purchases have always been late in the model year (Dec, Oct, Nov). And each one has been white - while we see a lot of those on the road, either they don’t actually sell well, or the manufacturers just overproduce that color, but that time of year, that’s been all they have left. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/46 "2024-06-07T01:25:25Z")
> [@md-2000](#): > > Simialrly, there was an item on CBC about how businesses in touristy Niagara Falls, Ontario were charging a “resort fee” on top of the regular hotel or restaurant list price, since “a business is so expensive to run here”. the show said, if it is not advised ahead of time or on the menu, and not an actual tax, it was not obligatory to oay - they would be violating Ontario consumer law. Resort fees are common in the hotel business. I suspect the idea started at actual resort hotels but many non-resorts charge such fees, or they may call it something else. I stayed at a hotel in downtown Los Angeles that charged a destination fee credited against whatever you spent at the restaurants in the hotel. (I was traveling on business, so I really didn’t care about the fee.) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/47 "2024-06-07T01:36:59Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Interesting. > > My understanding (which may not be correct!) is that once the new model year cars are coming out, you may do better on the old model year. Our 1998 Civic, bought in December 1998 when the 1999s were out , for example. That is true, but right before Christmas is not a good time, Right after is good. ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/48 "2024-06-07T01:37:28Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > My understanding (which may not be correct!) is that once the new model year cars are coming out, you may do better on the old model year I think that is generally true, but the one new car I bought at a dealership was a big exception. I was looking for a VW GTI. The 2002s were out, and they had more power and the sticker price was _less_ than the 2001s. Went to one dealership that (I didn’t know it at the time) only had a single GTI, which was a 2001 VR6. They refused to adjust the price even though the 2002s were cheaper, because “it was the only one they had.” “You know there are other VW dealerships, right?” Anyway, didn’t buy from them. Finally buying the car was also the normal dealership games. The salesman and I negotiated an out the door price that was acceptable to me, so I go back to financing, and they take the negotiated price and add a bunch of fees on top. The conversation went something like: Me: that was the out the door price Finance: we never negotiate the out the door price, it was the base price Me: it says “OTD” right there on the salesman’s notes where he circled the price Finance: that doesn’t mean “out the door” Me: [getting up to leave] sorry to waste your time Finance: wait, we can make it work ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/49 "2024-06-07T01:38:48Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Me: that was the out the door price > Finance: we never negotiate the out the door price, it was the base price > Me: it says “OTD” right there on the salesman’s notes where he circled the price > Finance: that doesn’t mean “out the door” > Me: [getting up to leave] sorry to waste your time > Finance: wait, we can make it work “Okay, but I am going “OTD”- bye!” 🤪 ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/50 "2024-06-07T01:44:27Z")
> [@echoreply](#): > > Me: [getting up to leave] sorry to waste your time I think your only mistake was apologizing for wasting their time. It was really your time that was being wasted. ---
**Author:** ![Dallas\_Jones](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dallas_jones/32/3277_2.png) [@Dallas\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dallas_Jones)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/51 "2024-06-07T01:49:35Z")
They install that TruCoat right at the factory. [truecoat fargo - Google Search](https://www.google.com/search?q=truecoat+fargo&sca_esv=9a34e8c41d0ab117&sca_upv=1&source=hp&ei=X2ZiZvfmGZLx0PEPta6vsAg&iflsig=AL9hbdgAAAAAZmJ0bxAFPg2J19ejuPDDU18Wz3sjbvC0&ved=0ahUKEwi3kta0r8iGAxWSODQIHTXXC4YQ4dUDCBA&uact=5&oq=truecoat+fargo&gs_lp=Egdnd3Mtd2l6Ig50cnVlY29hdCBmYXJnbzIFEAAYgAQyBRAAGIAEMgUQABiABDIGEAAYFhgeMggQABiABBiiBEiQb1AAWINgcAB4AJABAJgBmAGgAagLqgEDNi44uAEDyAEA-AEBmAIOoALXC8ICCxAAGIAEGLEDGIMBwgIREC4YgAQYsQMY0QMYgwEYxwHCAggQLhiABBixA8ICDhAuGIAEGLEDGIMBGNQCwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMYgwEYigXCAg4QABiABBixAxiDARiKBcICBRAuGIAEwgIIEAAYgAQYsQPCAgcQABiABBgKwgIOEC4YgAQYsQMYgwEY5QTCAgsQLhiABBjHARivAcICExAuGIAEGLEDGNEDGIMBGMcBGArCAggQLhiABBjlBMICCxAuGIAEGNEDGMcBmAMAkgcDNi44oAfygwE&sclient=gws-wiz#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:15667aae,vid:B2LLB9CGfLs,st:0) ---
**Author:** ![echoreply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/echoreply/32/3641_2.png) [@echoreply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/echoreply)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/52 "2024-06-07T01:50:08Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > only mistake was apologizing for wasting their time It’s pronounced “sorry” but is spelled f-u. I don’t know I’m cool enough to pull of making the meaning known, but that was certainly my intent. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/53 "2024-06-07T02:26:46Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > That is true, but right before Christmas is not a good time, Right after is good. Good point! That Civic was bought in the week between Christmas and NY. “They say” that this can be a good time to buy, also, as the dealers want to close deals during that month / year. No clue whether that is true or not. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/54 "2024-06-07T02:27:26Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > My WAG is that it depends on whether the salesman feels like going for a ride or has other things he has to do. As I said, my wife at 19 went to the Acura dealer, they photocopied he license and gave her the keys to a shiny new RX and said to take for a test drive for the day. So, who knows? I guess it depends on what sort of clientel usually wander in the door. They can try to nickel-and-dime (and higher) with other fees, but to me, the advertised price is the advertised price. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/55 "2024-06-07T02:31:17Z")
This episode is a bit dated, but it’s not only incredibly entertaining, but pretty informative of how things used to work (and probably still do to some extent): > **[129 Cars - This American Life](https://www.thisamericanlife.org/513/129-cars)** > > One car dealership tries to make its monthly quota: 129 cars. It is way more chaotic than we expected. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/56 "2024-06-07T03:29:39Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > This should always be the very first item discussed when purchasing a car. Nothing else matters initially. Once the “out the door” price is settled, then you can move on to the trade-in, if any, and then financing, if any. I did exactly this when I bought a new Toyota 4Runner years ago. But when I went to sign the purchase order, I saw that the salesman had tacked on a documentation fee and some other B.S. dealer fees. I had read up this before walking in the door in Consumer Reports, [Edmunds.com](http://Edmunds.com), and [cars.com](http://cars.com), so I knew that these were pure dealer profit. They were also being added to my “out the door” price. I told the salesman I wasn’t paying them. “Everyone pays these at our dealership,” he told me. “Not me,” I told him, adding the if this was indeed the case then he should have included them in the “out the door” price we had agreed on. He then told me that in all his time at the dealership, nobody had ever not paid these fees when buying a car. “Then I will be the first,” I replied. I made it clear that I was going to walk if they take them off the purchase agreement, which I was fully prepared to do. They then caved and took them off the purchase order. I had also already secured my own financing from my credit union and refused to talk trade-in until we agreed on the purchase price of the new vehicle. After we had agreed on the purchase price of the new vehicle, I circled back to trading in my old vehicle. He was very frank. He said they couldn’t offer much because I had gotten such a good deal on the new vehicle. I asked them to give my an offer anyway, and it was a ridiculous lowball offer. So I sold it myself later for three times what the dealer had offered. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/57 "2024-06-07T03:44:10Z")
When I bought my current car fourteen years ago, I said I was going to come back with a bank check, so they needed to give me a real out-the-door total. (They wouldn’t let me charge the whole $21,000 on a credit card, though.) They did try adding the cost of the wheel locks and the car door edge guards after we had negotiated a price. I countered that my offer was on the car as shown, which included both of those, so they dropped the demand. (As it was, I used that dealership for regular maintenance for _years_, so they did make some money off me.) ---
**Author:** ![kitap](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@kitap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kitap)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/58 "2024-06-07T03:52:50Z")
When I bought my Accent the used car dealership told us up front they did not haggle; the price was the price, though they did try to talk me into rustproofing. I paid the price plus sales tax, title, etc. It was very painless. Plus I appreciated that the salesman talked to me and not dad (my ride there since my car was not trustworthy to make it there more than once). With my Juke it was the height of Covid, and we got told they couldn’t afford to haggle since their inventory was so low. I’m not sure I believed that but Carfax said the price was a good deal. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/59 "2024-06-07T04:24:42Z")
> [@kitap](#): > > With my Juke it was the height of Covid, and we got told they couldn’t afford to haggle since their inventory was so low. I’m not sure I believed that It was probably mostly true. Because of the lockdowns in Asia, there was a huge microchip shortage so new cars weren’t getting completed leading to people depleting stock of used cars. There were stories of large parking lots full of new cars being stored, waiting on chips before they could be completed and taken to dealerships. I don’t know if the used market has completely recovered yet. All that said, it doesn’t mean they didn’t leverage the real life situation for a few extra bucks on top like companies taking advantage of 50% higher shipping costs to goose the shipping percentage by 65% and blaming it on Covid. ---
**Author:** ![BippityBoppityBoo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bippityboppityboo/32/5745_2.png) [@BippityBoppityBoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BippityBoppityBoo)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2024, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536/60 "2024-06-07T04:57:16Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > I don’t know if the used market has completely recovered yet. I had to buy a used car last month~it hasn’t recovered. There aren’t many choices out there, the prices are still high and the sellers know they don’t have to bargain with you. My Civic was valued at several thousand more than I paid for it from a dealer 5 years ago. Even that was nowhere near enough to buy a comparable car in today’s market. Had to settle for an older car with lots more miles on it and had very few choices within a hundred miles. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-buy-a-used-car-from-a-dealer-are-they-insane-or-off-or-just-me/1002536.md?page=4)