# Trying to decide on a place to 'settle down.' **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 23, 2018, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642 "2018-05-23T00:23:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/41 "2018-05-24T02:08:00Z")
I lived in the Kansas City area for a while and liked it a lot. Nice, livable city with impressive cultural attractions, good places to eat and drink, and many outdoor activities not far away. It has its challenges like many mid sized Midwestern cities, but it’s a good place to live. I grew up in the St. Louis area, so I have some sibling rivalry for KC, but I admit it’s a nice town. I also lived in Cincinnati for several years. Everything I said about KC also applies to Cincy. Plus, Cincy has a great Oktoberfest. There are several neat neighborhoods in the city. If I was a youngish, unattached person, I could do worse than spending my time in the Mount Adams or Oakley neighborhoods. It seemed like Cincy had more vibrant neighborhoods than my beloved St. Louis. …Which brings me to St. Louis! Unfortunately Parks College is no more, so I don’t think you can get an A&P nearby anymore. But StL is a fine town, in spite of its myriad flaws. It has a lot of first rate cultural outlets, a legacy of its past as a major city. It has an underrated food scene, some excellent universities, decent nightlife, and outdoor activities nearby. We don’t have a football team, and the Blues are only OK, but the Cardinals are usually good to great. And there are some really fun neighborhoods. The time I spent in the Central West End in my late 20s was probably the happiest time of my life. The Hill, The Loop, Soulard, and other neighborhoods are also great fun. And the cost of living is (IIRC) just a skosh below the national average. Plus, we have gooey butter cake, toasted ravioli, pork steaks, and Ted Drewe’s. Come visit!! I’ll buy you a Schlafly beer at a Cards game! ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/42 "2018-05-24T02:40:46Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > I lived in the Kansas City area for a while and liked it a lot. Nice, livable city with impressive cultural attractions, good places to eat and drink, and many outdoor activities not far away. It has its challenges like many mid sized Midwestern cities, but it’s a good place to live. I grew up in the St. Louis area, so I have some sibling rivalry for KC, but I admit it’s a nice town. > > I also lived in Cincinnati for several years. Everything I said about KC also applies to Cincy. Plus, Cincy has a great Oktoberfest. There are several neat neighborhoods in the city. If I was a youngish, unattached person, I could do worse than spending my time in the Mount Adams or Oakley neighborhoods. It seemed like Cincy had more vibrant neighborhoods than my beloved St. Louis. > > …Which brings me to St. Louis! Unfortunately Parks College is no more, so I don’t think you can get an A&P nearby anymore. But StL is a fine town, in spite of its myriad flaws. It has a lot of first rate cultural outlets, a legacy of its past as a major city. It has an underrated food scene, some excellent universities, decent nightlife, and outdoor activities nearby. We don’t have a football team, and the Blues are only OK, but the Cardinals are usually good to great. And there are some really fun neighborhoods. The time I spent in the Central West End in my late 20s was probably the happiest time of my life. The Hill, The Loop, Soulard, and other neighborhoods are also great fun. And the cost of living is (IIRC) just a skosh below the national average. Plus, we have gooey butter cake, toasted ravioli, pork steaks, and Ted Drewe’s. Come visit!! I’ll buy you a Schlafly beer at a Cards game! St Louis was a place I was considering, it meets all 3 of my requirements. State Tech College of Missouri in the city offers an A&P program. But, I’m not sure if it’s a place I’d be willing to live long-term… ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/43 "2018-05-24T02:44:55Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Are you staying in the military until then? You need a LOT of money to retire. And then there are women and children… > > Anyway, if you are staying in, why are you thinking about your retirement location now? A lot can change in a decade. If you want to invest in property, that’s another matter. > > Personally, if I were forced to retire to North America, I’d choose somewhere on the West Coast in Canada, north of Vancouver. 🙂 No, my military contract ends June 2022. And who said anything about women and children? It’s nigh impossible to secure an early retirement with them in the picture. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/44 "2018-05-24T03:20:42Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > St Louis was a place I was considering, it meets all 3 of my requirements. State Tech College of Missouri in the city offers an A&P program. But, I’m not sure if it’s a place I’d be willing to live long-term… It might help us to give you advice if you told us why you feel that way. Along those lines: - Is it important for you to be in (or close to) a big (or big-ish) city? Or, would you rather be in a mid-sized or smaller city (or even a rural area)? - Are there any “social life” things that are important for you? (i.e., types of food, museums, music, spectator sports, opportunities for hobbies or sports that you like to do) - Do you care if it’s a particularly liberal (or particularly conservative) area? (Seeing someone suggest Madison made me think of that; big college towns are often very liberal.) ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/45 "2018-05-24T03:42:13Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > It might help us to give you advice if you told us why you feel that way. I can’t really explain why… It seems to be a deeply troubled city, but then so is Detroit. I guess I don’t feel like I would be “compatible” with St Louis. > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > - Is it important for you to be in (or close to) a big (or big-ish) city? Or, would you rather be in a mid-sized or smaller city (or even a rural area)? > - Are there any “social life” things that are important for you? (i.e., types of food, museums, music, spectator sports, opportunities for hobbies or sports that you like to do) > - Do you care if it’s a particularly liberal (or particularly conservative) area? (Seeing someone suggest Madison made me think of that; big college towns are often very liberal.) - Not really. I’d prefer a smaller to midsized city over a large city or rural area. - Not really - Not really ---
**Author:** ![Marcus\_Flavius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a4c791/32.png) [@Marcus\_Flavius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marcus_Flavius)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/46 "2018-05-24T03:46:18Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I’m also from the Kansas City area. > > You know how they “nice place to visit, but I wouldnt want to live there” well KC is a nice play to live but not such a cool place to visit. Yes, it has the basics like nightlife and some museums and historic areas but I think its real great feature is its lower cost of living and fewer traffic problems. The Kansas suburbs have good schools and safe neighborhoods. Frankly I like boring anyways. > > My city, [Overland Park,](https://shawneemissionpost.com/2017/04/03/overland-park-among-top-10-cities-in-us-in-livabilitys-2017-best-places-to-live-rankings-61949) has been voted as one of the top 10 places to live in the country. > Its also popular with veterans because of nearby Ft. Leavenworth and its PX, a good VA hospital, and generally pro veteran vibe. Overland Park is a nice place. Not really cheap though. > [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > Also OP if the KC area is on the table you might consider Lawrence, KS. Also not really cheap. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/47 "2018-05-24T14:59:34Z")
I haven’t been to most of those places, but I’d certainly steer clear of Utica which I know all too well. The weather sucks, the economy sucks, and the seemingly low cost of living is partially offset by extremely high property, income, and sales taxes. Would you consider [Williamsport, Pennsylvania](http://www.city-data.com/city/Williamsport-Pennsylvania.html)? I’ve driven through dozens of times and I stopped to explore a bit once or twice. It seems like a pretty decent town with a low cost of living. It has a four-season climate but nothing extreme. It’s also the home of Lycoming Engines. The biggest drawback I can think of is that the public K-12 schools in that part of Penna. tend to suck, but I don’t know about Williamsport specifically. If you don’t have kids you shouldn’t care much. Penn College (a/k/a Penn Tech) in Williamsport has [programs in aviation](https://www.pct.edu/academics/tnrt/aviation). ---
**Author:** ![Defensive\_Indifference](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/defensive_indifference/32/6502_2.png) [@Defensive\_Indifference](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Defensive_Indifference)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/48 "2018-05-24T15:40:25Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > St Louis was a place I was considering, it meets all 3 of my requirements. State Tech College of Missouri in the city offers an A&P program. But, I’m not sure if it’s a place I’d be willing to live long-term… Linn, MO is pretty far from St. Louis. It’s not too far from Columbia, MO, though. Columbia is pretty cheap and has a decent college town vibe. It’s a little run down compared to someplace like Ann Arbor, but it’s still fun for a small city. St. Louis does have its problems, but there are also a lot of good places to live and, if you’re thinking this way, raise a family. We only wind up in the news for bad things, of course. And, we do have some economic challenges, due in part to the loss of several big corporate headquarters over the past couple of decades. But there’s a growing tech sector, and like I mentioned above some fun neighborhoods for young’uns. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/49 "2018-05-24T16:36:53Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > … > By the way, I simply cannot believe that e-surance quoted you that much. I realize it’s Detroit and maybe car theft is kinda high there but…THREE GRAND a year? Jesus wept! I’m a former servicemember, you’re a current one…why not go with USAA? They’re the best as far as I’m concerned. I have a car that was almost 40k new and my car insurance, awesome full coverage, $500 deductibles…is $62 a month. > … I was going to give this same advice: look into USAA costs. We’re not former military so no direct experience, though the accident that totalled my husband’s former Civic was caused by a USAA client - and they were good to deal with from my standpoint. The only two places you mentioned that I’ve spent much time in at all are Indianapolis and (to a much lesser extent) Pittsburgh. I lived in Indy for a couple months, some years back, and it was fine. Very, very flat - which would be great if you like biking, for example. I don’t know what cultural activities or sports or whatever (aside from some car race I heard of in passing)… Pittsburgh of course has lots of cultural / sports / whatever. Somewhat more interesting terrain. I grew up in Harrisburg, PA, which is a fairly unexciting place in many ways - but as the state capital, has a decent economy. It’s an affordable place as well - my mother’s house (on a 1+ acre lot) sold for 240K at about the time we paid 500K for a smaller house on nearly no land here in the DC area. Look into income and property taxes as well as insurance. That’ll affect your cost of living. My brother, in a Chicago suburb, pays a fortune for his property tax. Our house in DC, at about half the value, had tax of about 1/4 of his bill. ---
**Author:** ![sitchensis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sitchensis/32/4892_2.png) [@sitchensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sitchensis)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/50 "2018-05-24T16:48:50Z")
Spokane Community College - Spokane WA ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/51 "2018-05-24T17:19:52Z")
You’ve picked a bunch of fairly boring, Midwestern cities. If you’re looking for a city like that, I’d take a look at Columbus, Ohio. Because of the university and the state government, it usually fares better than a lot of other Ohio cities. It isn’t my ideal choice, but for the right job, I’d move back. Pittsburgh might also be a good choice and it is on your list, but I just haven’t been there in so long, that I can’t offer an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Balthisar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/balthisar/32/2825_2.png) [@Balthisar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balthisar)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/52 "2018-05-24T17:58:38Z")
> [@Marcus\_Flavius](#): > > Apparently, crime isn’t even the main reason why the car insurance is so expensive. The main culprit seems to be the state of Michigan’s fundamentally messed up car insurance laws. I drive a car that I paid $3500 for. So I’d essentially be paying more than my car is worth every year just to insure is… and that’s ridiculous beyond words. Nope. Try a non-Detroit ZIP code. Insurance fraud for Detroiters is fairly common, e.g., claim to live in Redford Township instead of Detroit. Now, I’m not suggesting that you commit insurance fraud. I _am_ suggesting that you can enjoy Detroit’s low cost of life in nearby communities, such as Redford Township or Ferndale, without the huge insurance cost. Also, remember that you’re not insuring your car (unless you add collision); you’re insuring _yourself_. We’re a no-fault state. We don’t have all of the stupid ambulance-chasing lawyers and runaway tort culture that other states tend to have, _and_ there’ **no limit** on catastrophic claims. My non-Detroit insurance is pretty reasonable for the protection that I have. It’s just under $600 per year. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/53 "2018-05-24T18:02:34Z")
Maybe the OP could move in with his parents? ---
**Author:** ![Nawth\_Chucka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c57346/32.png) [@Nawth\_Chucka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nawth_Chucka)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/54 "2018-05-24T18:56:37Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Are you staying in the military until then? You need a LOT of money to retire. And then there are women and children… > > Anyway, if you are staying in, why are you thinking about your retirement location now? A lot can change in a decade. If you want to invest in property, that’s another matter. > > Personally, if I were forced to retire to North America, I’d choose somewhere on the West Coast in Canada, north of Vancouver. 🙂 They’re talking about two different types of retirement; military retirement at the end of their contract, which will mean they get a pension of some amount from the federal gov’t for their years of military service (typically 15+). Retirement means a specific thing to the US military. The retirement they talk about in their 30s is the general ‘I no longer have to work.’ sort you’re thinking of. ETA - OP, consider that 5 of the cities you list get a lot of snow and there may be times you’re unable to get to work or school b/c of it. And OK has been getting earthquakes more frequently due to the fracking industry. I’ve heard good things about Cincy/Covington; keep in mind one side of the river’s dry and it’s not the Ohio one. ---
**Author:** ![Oredigger77](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oredigger77/32/3181_2.png) [@Oredigger77](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oredigger77)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/55 "2018-05-24T19:58:18Z")
> [@sitchensis](#): > > Spokane Community College - Spokane WA Damn it. That was the first thought that popped into my head after reading the OP and I made it all the way to the end before someone beat me to it. Relatively cheap, close to lots of open space for out door activities but still with most of the amenities of a real city. Spokane is on my list of places I want to retire to but considering none of the OPs other cities even come close to making my list I’m not sure how valid that recommendation is. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/56 "2018-05-24T21:22:21Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Maybe the OP could move in with his parents? Where do they live? You could live with them for a few years and save up for a nice(r) house, or a more interesting city. But, would you want to live with them? Would they want you to live with them? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/57 "2018-05-24T21:30:26Z")
> [@Gatopescado](#): > > Go West, Young Man! We have poisonous rattlesnakes here in the west. Very poisonous. West might be a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/58 "2018-05-24T21:58:21Z")
No jobs in the south. Move on up north. Yep that’s the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [May 24, 2018, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/59 "2018-05-24T23:25:31Z")
Columbia, MO, which Bayard mentioned, is a good thought. University of Missouri is there. The town is halfway between KC and St. Louis, so you can get to either city without too much trouble. There’s a decent small airport just south of town, although I usually chose to fly out of St. Louis when I travelled. The town offers a selection of good restaurants, and decent shopping, and a wide range of political tolerance (being a college town). In town, real estate isn’t too bad. Just outside of town, it would be inexpensive by most standards. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2018, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642/60 "2018-05-25T00:55:13Z")
> [@Bayard](#): > > Linn, MO is pretty far from St. Louis. It’s not too far from Columbia, MO, though. Yeah, in fact Linn is a small town more than a 100-mile drive (mostly on a winding U.S. 50) from St. Louis. Columbia is 50 miles from Linn. Columbia’s a great place if you’re a 20-year old college student, not so much when you’re in your 30’s. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-decide-on-a-place-to-settle-down/814642.md?page=4)