# Trying to understand addiction, and failing **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 9, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086 "2018-04-09T16:24:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/21 "2018-04-10T02:03:15Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > I’m by no means an expert but I believe the areas of the brain that are activated in drug/food/sex addicts are the same or similar in gambling addicts. The rush, the dopamine, etc. The feel good neurotransmitters, chemicals, etc. It’s the same effect on your brain, you’re just using a different tool to achieve it. Sure, but lots of things feel good. But other things feel good too. What makes an alcoholic thing “yeah, I know driving right now is wrong and my life might get ruined, but I got to go driving somewhere”? ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/22 "2018-04-10T02:08:03Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure, but lots of things feel good. But other things feel good too. What makes an alcoholic thing “yeah, I know driving right now is wrong and my life might get ruined, but I got to go driving somewhere”? I think that’s a question a more knowledgeable poster should address. It sounds like a neurological dysfunction/regulation issue but I can’t answer it. ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/23 "2018-04-10T03:28:47Z")
well if you do it right you can drink so much you wake up still drunk the next day …where upon you look for everything you didn’t drink last night finish that and go get more …repeat until broke or in the er or jail or all 3 … ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/24 "2018-04-10T03:39:21Z")
Or dead or in jail. I wonder what are the numbers on how long it takes for a serious imbibing alcoholic to ruin their lives and others. My whole family are serious drinkers in every manner and level of addiction. They would never tell you that but it is true. They don’t do AA or ever study the need to quit. They die of it, that’s how they stop. Me and one cousin do not drink in the whole huge family, and I am not real sure Cous ain’t on something else. I am diabetic since a small child so really it’s impossible for me to drink. So I dodged that bullet. Addiction is one strange animal. ---
**Author:** ![erysichthon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d07c76/32.png) [@erysichthon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erysichthon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/25 "2018-04-10T04:10:55Z")
**Inigo Montoya** , you sort of answered your own question when you said you could “just switch it off.” An addict doesn’t have that switch. But for a more compelling description, here’s noted drinker Raymond Chandler on what it’s like to quit drinking: > [@](#): > > “Maybe I can quit drinking one of these days. They all say that, don’t they?” > > “It takes about three years.” > > “Three years?” He looked shocked. > > “Usually it does. It’s a different world. You have to get used to a paler set of colors, a quieter lot of sounds. You have to allow for relapses. All the people you used to know well will get to be just a little strange. You won’t even like most of them, and they won’t like you too well.” ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/26 "2018-04-10T04:14:34Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I can’t seem to understand addiction. Jeez, what’s wrong with you…just understand it , O.K.? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/27 "2018-04-10T10:42:24Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Very relevant in my case. Just retrieved my daughter from rehab (dual diagnosis w/ alcohol withdrawal). She has a hell of a history of cutting, it’s hard to find a patch on her arms, legs, or belly that isn’t a scar. I’ve never understood it as a coping mechanism, and nobody has been able to adequately explain it to me, but your post came close. Her main demon I think is anxiety. She was drinking because she was trying to get away from the cutting and needed a shortcut to unconsciousness. And it got out of hand. I suspect the actual broken thing in her is anxiety–but given how deep she got into the bottle I wonder if she hasn’t added that specific addiction to her problem list, or if it’s still just A means of managing the underlying anxiety. How is she doing since coming home, **IM**? ---
**Author:** ![Macca26](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/13edae/32.png) [@Macca26](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Macca26)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/28 "2018-04-10T16:14:56Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > Very relevant in my case. Just retrieved my daughter from rehab (dual diagnosis w/ alcohol withdrawal). She has a hell of a history of cutting, it’s hard to find a patch on her arms, legs, or belly that isn’t a scar. I’ve never understood it as a coping mechanism, and nobody has been able to adequately explain it to me, but your post came close. Her main demon I think is anxiety. She was drinking because she was trying to get away from the cutting and needed a shortcut to unconsciousness. And it got out of hand. I suspect the actual broken thing in her is anxiety–but given how deep she got into the bottle I wonder if she hasn’t added that specific addiction to her problem list, or if it’s still just A means of managing the underlying anxiety. I guess if my case is similar to your case then I could expand a little more on this specific type of addiction. You develop this love/hate relationship with the thing you’re addicted to, sometimes. Especially with cutting, which is such a negative addiction. You know it’s bad, everyone tells you it’s bad, and you get guilt for doing it. But it fixes everything, it fixes your brain (even for just an hour so you can sleep) and you love that about it. So you hate what it does to you but you also love what it does to you. And if you’re already susceptible to martyrdom complexes and you’re already suicidal then you develop this sort of pride in what you’re doing. You’re proud of your scars because that was another day lived, you’re proud of the pain because it means you can get through anything, finally, you did one thing right: you made it through without dying. And it won’t matter how many cuts you accumulate because it’s proof you’re making it through by any means necessary. That’s the sort of twisted thinking you can develop with cutting addiction. Not every cutter is going to think that way, obviously, but that fed into mine. It makes you feel special and strong when you’re really nobody and broken and weak. And because you have to hide it from everybody or else they’ll go off about it, it feeds into being separated from everyone else and isolated rather than bringing you closer to others. It’s your special little secret that you curl around for protection and hide from others. Cutting is a way to keep you from killing yourself, because without it your brain is in overdrive, feeling like it’s going to split into a million billion pieces and you’ll never be put back together again. Like you’re lost in space and nobody will ever find you again, and you’ll forget who you are. It’s hard to get across how _extreme_ the feelings can get before you do it. It feels like physical pain all by itself. ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/29 "2018-04-10T16:32:30Z")
> [@Inigo\_Montoya](#): > > I I simply have no idea how to ask about something I seem to be immune to. I **strongly** recommend that you don’t assume that addiction is something you are immune to. You see, I appear to be immune to cocaine addiction. I’ve used it off and on over the years, and it never got into my head and flipped the switch that made me crave it irrationally. I tried crystal meth once, and had a similar reaction. Now those are two of the most addictive drugs out there, so I assumed that I was immune to addiction, much like you did here. Then I found Heroin. I wasn’t immune to becoming addicted to that, not even a little bit. I probably wouldn’t have ended up a homeless junkie if I hadn’t assumed that I could just kick this habit like every habit I had before it. By the time I realized I couldn’t just walk away from H like I had other drugs, it was far too late, and I had to hit bottom hard before I managed to get clean. I still dream about using H years later. The craving never left, it just calmed down and it’s something I live with now. It’s an itch that that I can never scratch, because I know that if I do, I’ll never stop scratching it until I end up dead. It reminds me of dealing with depression. Even when you know that your brain is lying to you,it’s still hard to not believe it. There is a part of my brain that loves coming up with [del]reasons[/del] bullshit why I’d totally be OK this time if I started using H again. They are lies, but they are beautiful lies compared to the harsh truth that I can never touch that shit again. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/30 "2018-04-10T17:15:43Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > I **strongly** recommend that you don’t assume that addiction is something you are immune to. Noted. Fortunately I’m at a point in my life where I’m not really into trying anything new. But I have a feeling I would expire fairly quickly on opiods–probably on purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/31 "2018-04-10T17:19:41Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > I **strongly** recommend that you don’t assume that addiction is something you are immune to. You see, I appear to be immune to cocaine addiction. I’ve used it off and on over the years, and it never got into my head and flipped the switch that made me crave it irrationally. I tried crystal meth once, and had a similar reaction. Now those are two of the most addictive drugs out there, so I assumed that I was immune to addiction, much like you did here. > > Then I found Heroin. I wasn’t immune to becoming addicted to that, not even a little bit. I probably wouldn’t have ended up a homeless junkie if I hadn’t assumed that I could just kick this habit like every habit I had before it. By the time I realized I couldn’t just walk away from H like I had other drugs, it was far too late, and I had to hit bottom hard before I managed to get clean. > > I still dream about using H years later. The craving never left, it just calmed down and it’s something I live with now. It’s an itch that that I can never scratch, because I know that if I do, I’ll never stop scratching it until I end up dead. It reminds me of dealing with depression. Even when you know that your brain is lying to you,it’s still hard to not believe it. There is a part of my brain that loves coming up with [del]reasons[/del] bullshit why I’d totally be OK this time if I started using H again. They are lies, but they are beautiful lies compared to the harsh truth that I can never touch that shit again. Wouldn’t you say heroin is worse because there is a physical addiction? With cocaine my understanding is there is no physical withdrawal, just mental. Of course that’s bad also, but heroin is a double whammy. ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/32 "2018-04-10T18:11:54Z")
> [@Beckdawrek](#): > > But, gambling, nah I don’t understand. Yea, I am with you on that one. Gambling is just giving people your money and them walking away with it. Its like getting addicted to someone punching you in the face. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/33 "2018-04-10T18:54:33Z")
> [@Hermitian](#): > > Yea, I am with you on that one. Gambling is just giving people your money and them walking away with it. Its like getting addicted to someone punching you in the face. Yeah but they give you some pleasuring in between face punches. It’s just that the face punch to handjob ratio is not favorable. But gamblers mentally feel that all they have to do is keep gambling and eventually they are gonna hit it big and it’s nothing but handjobs until they walk away from the table. Which is a possibility. There are gamblers who get lucky, get rich, and quit while ahead. It’s probably not going to be you. Also, if you ever get on a lucky streak that is long enough, casinos will ban you for winning too much. (since they can’t be certain you haven’t found an undetected way to cheat) ---
**Author:** ![Crazy\_Canuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crazy_canuck/32/5282_2.png) [@Crazy\_Canuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crazy_Canuck)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/34 "2018-04-10T19:05:14Z")
> [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](#): > > Wouldn’t you say heroin is worse because there is a physical addiction? With cocaine my understanding is there is no physical withdrawal, just mental. Of course that’s bad also, but heroin is a double whammy. IMO, It depends entirely on the person. I personally know a guy in the exact opposite boat as me. He had no issues using opiates on occasion, but he had a very rough time quitting coke, relapsing repeatedly. I think **Fear Itself** is on to something. My friend would describe how he feels using coke just like **Fear Itself** described drinking alcohol, and also how I would describe heroin. It’s not just that it feels good, it that it feels SO FUCKING GREAT, so great that you never want to stop, and all you can think of afterwards is feeling that way again ASAP. The only difference between physical withdrawal and psychological withdrawal in my books is if you absolutely need medical assistance to get clean (physical) or if it’s just a really good idea. I once saw an addict who had cut his skin to ribbons trying to get “coke bugs” out from under his skin. He died of blood loss. Just because it’s only in someone’s head doesn’t make it any less real to the person experiencing it. ---
**Author:** ![Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/6bbea6/32.png) [@Living\_Well\_Is\_Best\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Living_Well_Is_Best_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/35 "2018-04-10T19:09:59Z")
> [@Crazy\_Canuck](#): > > IMO, It depends entirely on the person. I personally know a guy in the exact opposite boat as me. He had no issues using opiates on occasion, but he had a very rough time quitting coke, relapsing repeatedly. I think **Fear Itself** is on to something. My friend would describe how he feels using coke just like **Fear Itself** described drinking alcohol, and also how I would describe heroin. It’s not just that it feels good, it that it feels SO FUCKING GREAT, so great that you never want to stop, and all you can think of afterwards is feeling that way again ASAP. > > The only difference between physical withdrawal and psychological withdrawal in my books is if you absolutely need medical assistance to get clean (physical) or if it’s just a really good idea. I once saw an addict who had cut his skin to ribbons trying to get “coke bugs” out from under his skin. He died of blood loss. Just because it’s only in someone’s head doesn’t make it any less real to the person experiencing it. That makes sense and clears up some misconceptions on my part. I’ve known people who were into coke and could never understand why they didn’t just stop since it wasn’t physically addictive. Now I understand better. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/36 "2018-04-10T19:10:53Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Not all addicts are the same. One of my friends was an alcoholic back when he was in college (before I met him). You’d never know it to meet him now. Nowadays, he does drink, but he really does do it only in moderation: I’ve never seen him have more than two drinks in an evening, and usually zero. And he did this basically on his own, because he himself realized that he was ruining his life, and he didn’t want his life ruined. > > Would that work for everyone? Probably not. But for some people, it’s possible. You know, there’s a very real possibility that he was never an alcoholic in any meaningful sense. People do stuff when everyone else is doing it. When people tell me they were an alcoholic for 3 years in college, that’s an eye roll moment. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/37 "2018-04-10T21:48:53Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Addiction to things like sex and food are, IMO, the most sinister of all addictions. This is because both things, sex and food, are critical components to a (healthy) life. You can’t go without food and you shouldn’t go without sex. So it’s not as if you can just “quit” your substance of abuse like you can with drugs or alcohol. You have to learn to change your entire relationship from a wholly dysfunctional, abusive one to a healthy, positive one. That is no easy task. Imagine asking a drug addict to learn how to develop a positive relationship and habit with their drug of choice. I’d say that is on the precipice of nary impossible (exceptions exist for most anything). I wonder if you misinterpreted my post? I wasn’t making a comparison to food ADDICTION, I was instead using the model of food as a need that everyone would understand the experience of. ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/38 "2018-04-10T22:00:17Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > Addiction to things like sex and food are, IMO, the most sinister of all addictions. This is because both things, sex and food, are critical components to a (healthy) life. You can’t go without food and you shouldn’t go without sex. So it’s not as if you can just “quit” your substance of abuse like you can with drugs or alcohol. You have to learn to change your entire relationship from a wholly dysfunctional, abusive one to a healthy, positive one. That is no easy task. Imagine asking a drug addict to learn how to develop a positive relationship and habit with their drug of choice. I’d say that is on the precipice of nary impossible (exceptions exist for most anything). True you can’t go without food. But it is not that simple. I went cold turkey on eating between meals and lost 40-45 lb over a 2 year period, while making no other changes to my diet or lifestyle. Eating between meals is a kind of addiction. At first, at three in the afternoon or 9 at night you get a sudden urge to eat and resist. After a couple months of this, you no longer get those urges; at least they are much less. Alcohol never did a thing for me (except make me sleepy) and I can go for a month without a drink. Then my wife and I will share a bottle of beer (I do enjoy the taste, especially with certain foods). But I was seriously addicted to tobacco until the day, 53 years ago, that I had a heart attack and have never picked up a cigarette since. But man, the urge persisted for years. It is completely gone and even the thought is revolting. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/39 "2018-04-10T22:03:27Z")
> [@Icarus](#): > > I wonder if you misinterpreted my post? I wasn’t making a comparison to food ADDICTION, I was instead using the model of food as a need that everyone would understand the experience of. Ah, I guess I did read in haste. Consider it an add-on then. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086/40 "2018-04-10T22:18:19Z")
The thing about cigarettes are they seem to hide in the back ground waiting for you to be stressed and in a place where it’s ok to smoke and someone close has some. And you light up. Fortunately there are fewer places that it’s ok to smoke. My friend quit smoking years ago, she got a vape kit and used it for a month or so now she’s smoking again:( [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/trying-to-understand-addiction-and-failing/812086.md?page=3)