# TSA body scanners and underwear bomber **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 23, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689 "2010-11-23T19:01:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pierrot_Le_Fou)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/1 "2010-11-23T19:01:17Z")
Would the new body scanners have detected the underwear bomber’s bomb? I have heard a few news story that cite an unnamed expert that they would not have detected the bomb, but what is the straight dope? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/2 "2010-11-23T19:05:53Z")
Yes. In fact that is exactly the type of things these scanners are being purchased for. ---
**Author:** ![Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f475e1/32.png) [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pierrot_Le_Fou)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/3 "2010-11-23T19:16:16Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Yes. In fact that is exactly the type of things these scanners are being purchased for. Do you have any cites? ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/4 "2010-11-23T19:17:44Z")
Yep, it’s part of our determined response to always prevent the last attack. ---
**Author:** ![Quercus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/7ab992/32.png) [@Quercus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quercus)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/5 "2010-11-23T19:30:50Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Yes. In fact that is exactly the type of things these scanners are being purchased for. Ditto the request for cites, both on the answer to the OP and on the motivation for purchase. There are some people who would argue that the motivation for purchasing the scanners is, well, profits. Not that you can believe the communist USA Today, of course. [http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-11-22-scanner-lobby\_N.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-11-22-scanner-lobby_N.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/6 "2010-11-23T19:46:47Z")
Google “backscatter X-ray.” There’s lots of information. The image is produced by reflected gamma rays. If it isn’t skin, then it looks like something else, basically. [From How Stuff Works:](http://www.howstuffworks.com/innovation/backscatter.htm) > [@](#): > > A scatter pattern changes depending on the element it’s interacting with – carbon, hydrogen or lithium, for instance. Elements with lower atomic numbers (fewer protons) on the periodic table scatter X-ray photons very powerfully, while elements located farther down on the periodic table tend to absorb more photons than they scatter. Most organics are located closer to the start of the periodic table. So backscatter systems are very good at imaging organic material – much better than dual-energy systems. They easily pick up the scatter patterns of drugs and explosives and body parts. This ability to detect and identify organic material, along with a technology called “Flying Spot” that lets the machine pinpoint the location of a particular X-ray beam at any given moment in time, allow backscatter images to be incredibly accurate and lifelike. ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/7 "2010-11-23T19:47:23Z")
> [@Quercus](#): > > Ditto the request for cites, both on the answer to the OP and on the motivation for purchase. > > There are some people who would argue that the motivation for purchasing the scanners is, well, profits. Not that you can believe the communist USA Today, of course. > [http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-11-22-scanner-lobby\_N.htm](http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2010-11-22-scanner-lobby_N.htm) Well, of course the people who make them do so to sell them at a profit – and even at a profit after their [del]bribes to Congress members[/del] campaign contributions. The question really is, why does the TSA buy and use them? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/8 "2010-11-23T19:48:48Z")
Should I not wear my glow-in-the-dark boxers on the day I fly? ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/9 "2010-11-23T20:15:36Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > Would the new body scanners have detected the underwear bomber’s bomb? I have heard a few news story that cite an unnamed expert that they would not have detected the bomb, but what is the straight dope? Without bothering to look up cites, the scanner would not detect that it was a bomb but should have shown that there was something wrong with the underwear bomber’s underwear. So the answer is “yes” and “no.” It would require the person watching the scanner to determine there was something out of place. ---
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/10 "2010-11-23T20:28:37Z")
The scans, like taking off our shoes, are a direct result of a specific threat that we have become aware of. God help us if a suicide bomber decides to stick an explosive up his ass. Because the screenings would then include a brief and barely invasive colonoscopy. ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/11 "2010-11-23T20:35:05Z")
> [@Pierrot\_Le\_Fou](#): > > Would the new body scanners have detected the underwear bomber’s bomb? I have heard a few news story that cite an unnamed expert that they would not have detected the bomb, but what is the straight dope? An Israeli security expert, Rafi Sela, formerly chief of security for Israel’s airports so testified to Canada’s parliament (see here, could not find direct link to the testimony: [http://www.truth-out.org/revolt-against-body-scanners65377](http://www.truth-out.org/revolt-against-body-scanners65377) ; [http://www.colinmayes.ca/EN/newspaper\_columns\_&\_press\_releases/air\_transportation\_safety\_and\_security\_issues/](http://www.colinmayes.ca/EN/newspaper_columns_&_press_releases/air_transportation_safety_and_security_issues/)) Also the American GAO held that it was unclear that the scanners could in fact detect the threat (and at reasonable cost): [http://www.gao.gov/htext/d10484t.html](http://www.gao.gov/htext/d10484t.html) It would appear that unless one is inclined to immediately believe a security agency with financial incentive to assert utility, it is unclear. Of course the Nigerian lad could have simply inserted something up his arse, rendering the whole thing farcical. ---
**Author:** ![Lare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@Lare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lare)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/12 "2010-11-23T20:35:10Z")
> [@CC](#): > > The scans, like taking off our shoes, are a direct result of a specific threat that we have become aware of. God help us if a suicide bomber decides to stick an explosive up his ass. Because the screenings would then include a brief and barely invasive colonoscopy. A barely-invasive colonoscopy is a sigmoidoscopy. They only look at about the last third of the large intestine (the sigmoid colon). ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/13 "2010-11-23T20:37:18Z")
> [@CC](#): > > The scans, like taking off our shoes, are a direct result of a specific threat that we have become aware of. God help us if a suicide bomber decides to stick an explosive up his ass. Because the screenings would then include a brief and barely invasive colonoscopy. A delivery method already used, it should be noted. Of course on a plane one would have the leisure of going to the toilet and assembling the bomb from parts hidden in body cavities and placing the bomb strategically afterwards. ---
**Author:** ![This\_Just\_In\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@This\_Just\_In\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/This_Just_In_2)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2010, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/14 "2010-11-23T20:57:43Z")
Besides hiding explosives in one’s ass, I believe any body cavity will do. Stomach, vagina or even a fat skin fold will cleverly disguise objects from the scanners reach. Of course, we are relying on the assumption that suicidal bombers would draw the line at such an indignance as having to shove an explosive up their bum or other bodily oriface. Blowing themselves up shouldn’t have to be so icky. But it is true that the scanner will find those terrorists who insist on the traditional method of hiding things in their underwear. TSA, bringing horses to tank battles since 2001. ---
**Author:** ![commasense](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/commasense/32/3017_2.png) [@commasense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/commasense)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/15 "2010-11-24T03:05:53Z")
On the [Diane Rehm Show yesterday](http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-11-22/protests-against-tsa-screenings), Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the [Electronic Privacy Information Center](http://epic.org/) said that the machines were designed before the underwear bomber was caught last year, and that, despite claims to the contrary, they cannot detect PETN, the powder explosive he used. He also said that FOIA requests they have filed prove that the systems can, in fact, save and transfer images, contrary to the TSA’s stated claims. Another guest on the show, a biophysicist, said even though both of the two technologies being used create images of equal quality, one, millimeter waves, has virtually no known health risk, whereas the other, x-rays, does. And based on the resolution of the images that have been shown, it is a virtual certainty that the x-ray units are emitting as much as ten times more radiation than has been claimed for them. Finally, it turns out that [Michael Chertoff](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff), Bush’s second secretary of Homeland Security and a strong proponent of the scanners, was employed by Rapiscan, one of the manufacturers. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/16 "2010-11-24T04:15:16Z")
> [@commasense](#): > > On the [Diane Rehm Show yesterday](http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2010-11-22/protests-against-tsa-screenings), Marc Rotenberg, executive director of the [Electronic Privacy Information Center](http://epic.org/) said that the machines were designed before the underwear bomber was caught last year, and that, despite claims to the contrary, they cannot detect PETN, the powder explosive he used. > > He also said that FOIA requests they have filed prove that the systems can, in fact, save and transfer images, contrary to the TSA’s stated claims. > > Another guest on the show, a biophysicist, said even though both of the two technologies being used create images of equal quality, one, millimeter waves, has virtually no known health risk, whereas the other, x-rays, does. And based on the resolution of the images that have been shown, it is a virtual certainty that the x-ray units are emitting as much as ten times more radiation than has been claimed for them. > > Finally, it turns out that [Michael Chertoff](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Chertoff), Bush’s second secretary of Homeland Security and a strong proponent of the scanners, was employed by Rapiscan, one of the manufacturers. And they are built in Indonesia. ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/17 "2010-11-24T05:02:50Z")
As I’ve mentioned in a previous thread, sticking an explosive device up one’s bum is going to reduce the intensity of said explosive (re: Medal of Honor’s awarded for using one’s body used as an explosive’s attenuator). I’m sure it would be worthy of a Mythbusters episode… but that’s a pipe dream, so to speak. ---
**Author:** ![AmunRa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@AmunRa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmunRa)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/18 "2010-11-24T05:20:20Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > As I’ve mentioned in a previous thread, sticking an explosive device up one’s bum is going to reduce the intensity of said explosive Not if you go to the lavatory and take it out… ---
**Author:** ![user\_hostile](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/user_hostile/32/474_2.png) [@user\_hostile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/user_hostile)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/19 "2010-11-24T05:39:33Z")
> [@AmunRa](#): > > Not if you go to the lavatory and take it out… I was pointing out a case of _non-removal_. Can anybody here at the Dope speak of using one’s descending colon as a way of getting around a baggage charge? I know the Perfect Master spoke of this [once](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/478/is-it-true-what-they-say-about-gerbils); perhaps it’s time to revisit this question in a post 9-11 world: ``` *Can you get enough explosive in and out of your bum to take out a commercial jet liner?* ``` ---
**Author:** ![wmfellows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c2a13f/32.png) [@wmfellows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wmfellows)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2010, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689/20 "2010-11-24T10:11:53Z")
> [@user\_hostile](#): > > As I’ve mentioned in a previous thread, sticking an explosive device up one’s bum is going to reduce the intensity of said explosive (re: Medal of Honor’s awarded for using one’s body used as an explosive’s attenuator). I’m sure it would be worthy of a Mythbusters episode… but that’s a pipe dream, so to speak. And how this connects with the discussion here where the removal of the explosives while in the lavatory has already been highlighted as an easy and trivial way to deal with that… The Saudi bombing was of course limited by the personal security around the Emir. Hardly the case in-flight. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-body-scanners-and-underwear-bomber/561689.md?page=2)