So what? Your shy and reserved streak does not exempt you from Federal law.
Your body belongs to you. And you do not sign over rights to it. But you do acknowledge the possibility of a search and consent to said search. Don’t like it? Don’t fly.
Nobody has to convince you. You’re not going to do anything about it. The opinions of the inactive don’t count. That’s not a moral judgment, that’s a pragmatic statement.
It’s a social contract, people. Just because you can’t understand it doesn’t mean you’re not bound by it. You can change it if you like. If you don’t want to change it, you’ve got to endure it.
RE: bitching, pissing, and moaning:
“I don’t like this. It sucks.” That’s marginally acceptable to me, although, my next question is invariably, “So, what are you going to do about it?”
“I don’t like this. It ought to be changed. Someone should do something about this.” If you’re not willing for that someone to be you, then jeez. Who cares?
Do you have anything new or substantive to add, HSHP? Because all of your demands that people stop bitching in a Pit thread are wearing mighty damned thin.
When there are no more posts that say, “Proper security procedures are congruent with what makes ME comfortable,” I’ll stop telling those posters to shut the fuck up.
And I haven’t really demanded that people stop bitching. My point is simply that your bitching is useless if you aren’t willing to do anything about it. But you already knew that, didn’t you?
Actually, Pup, I have a long history of not only trying to change situations I find unpalatable, but succeeding in doing so. That includes everything from running a televangelist off the air in Hawaii to correcting my own nearly nonexistent self-esteem. The thing is, in order to change a situation, one needs to know at least two things: one, that the situation exists, and two, that some sort of change is possible. Until I read this thread, I had no idea that buying a plane ticket could lead to my breasts being intrusively searched. Now, I’m a chronic idealist, and I do believe that situations can be always be changed. However, I’m also realistic enough to know that sometimes it’s me or my attitudes which need to be changed to make the situation tolerable. As I said this morning, I haven’t ruled out the latter.
The thing is, if a person can reasonably expect to have her breasts searched in the name of national security, why would it be unreasonable for a person to expect a body cavity search? Anything I can hide between or under my breasts I can also carry internally, with far less worry about its shifting and suddenly becoming visible. Granted it would take more time to pull out a weapon carried internally, and it would be far more likely to create a stir if I did it at my seat, but I could just as easily head back to the bathroom, remove whatever instrument of mayhem I’d decided on, come out and create my form of havoc. To me, there’s just as great a rationale for body cavity searches as there is for the more extensive search of the woman’s breast the article the OP linked to described, at least the way I read the words.
Pup, I’ve been taking on social contracts for over twenty years now. It’s a windmill this old warhorse still can’t resist tilting at, and I do know the odds of winning aren’t always that great. It still beats the heck out of sitting at home, watching Survivor, and moaning about the good old days. America was founded by people who regarded certain actions by the state as intolerable and who refused to accept them. I like to amuse myself by seeing myself as carrying on the tradition. I also know that before rushing into battle, it’s a good idea to know who and where the enemy is, otherwise, all is “sound and fury signifying nothing.” I know a worthwhile battle exists. Now, it all comes down to what tactics to use.
I did something about it - I have a pilot’s license. I don’t have to go through security when I fly.
So your “either shut up and put up with it or don’t fly” doesn’t hold water, does it? There IS a third alternative.
Can’t get a pilot’s license? Don’t want one? Although some charter services, particularly those operating out of major airports, require their passengers to undergo security, not all do. If it means that much to you, you can go to a small airport, rent a pilot and plane, and go pretty much where you want with considerably less hoopla.
It will, of course, cost more than a deep discount fare, and going to Hawaii or Europe or Asia would be impractical for most peoples’ budget. But there are folks willing to pay three times the normal cost for less hassle. Not because they’re bad, evil people either - just ordinary folks who don’t want to be strip-searched and loaded into a flying cattle car.
You are subject to search, including full body cavity search, anytime you travel internationally. Drive into Mexico, Mexican authorities can search you on the way in, and US authorities can search you on the way back. Everywhere. Your entire body and all of your personal effects. This is not a new policy. It’s been in effect for decades.
Broomstick, you’ve been living a charmed life. Private plane or no, anytime you cross the US/Canada border, you are subject to search. You don’t have the option of refusing. The authorities could meet your plane when it lands and search you from top to bottom. They occasionally do this very thing when they suspect that someone’s smuggling drugs or other contraband.
These women (see below) have apparently been subjected to the racial profiling that danceswithcats is so fond of. Note that the searches that were conducted on these women were way more intrusive than just a boob pat down:
My favorite part of the article:
Statistics bear this out. According to a March 2000 General Accounting Office report, black women were nine times more likely than white women to be X-rayed after being frisked or patted down, yet black women were less than half as likely to be found carrying contraband as white women.
We will have to treat everyone the same or abandon security measures altogether. Nothing that the TSA asked of the lady in the OP was out of line. As I pointed out, the search was much less intrusive than what she could have been subjected to if she’d been an international traveller.
I am Australian. A few weeks back it became mandatory for my fellow citizens to submit to being photographed and fingerprinted like criminals on entering your country. Everyone has different limits of acceptability, for me this is mine, it simply means that I can never now visit the US. Its not that I have anything to hide as I am not a terrorist or a drug smuggler but I would find it somewhat humiliating and so I wont do it. The prospect of being patted and prodded, my ‘package’ checked and my partner’s rack examined is also not a prospect I’d relish. Perhaps I am precious but I would be struck by the utter futility of it all. Sooner or later it all ends with all your female passengers in stirrups as they are checked for butter-stick sized chunks of C4. Enough.
Having grown up about 10 miles from an international border I am well aware of the requirements, thank you very much. However, those driving or walking across the US/Canadian border are not subject to precisely the same procedures as those traveling by air. And while it has ALWAYS been the case that a strip-search is a possibility, it was by no means routine. I’ve crossed that border many times, certainly my vehicle has been searched, and I’ve been questioned as to origins and intentions. I don’t ever recall even a pre-9/11 airport-style search involving metal detectors and emptying pockets. Nor is it strictly a matter of looking harmless - the US/Canadian border has long had a program of randomly selecting folks for more extensive searches even without suspicion, and I’ve experienced that as well. There’s no comparison with what happens at the airlines.
For that matter, I’ve crossed European international borders as well. Unless they’ve changed since 9/11 (which may be) that, likewise, was not what folks are now subjected to for even domestic travel within the US.
As far as being in a private plane - yes, I can be searched. That was as true before 9/11 as after. However, that does not mean I will be searched. In addition, I am permitted to carry some items in my private airplane that would be entirely forbidden in an airliner.
It would be completely ludicrous to search me when I am the only occupant of an airplane as I am hardly going to hijack myself. Searches of private planes typically concentrate on the vehicle itself. You’re going to have to acting in an extremely suspicious manner to get yourself strip-searched when flying solo. Much more suspicious than simply wearing an underwire bra.
The point remains that I must, as an airline passenger, go through a tedious and stressful screening process where I can be stripped of such “dangerous” objects as nail clippers and possibly subject to treatment that, in almost any other context, could be considered (depending on what exactly occurs) either minor assault or sexual assault. Does this REALLY improve safety and security? I have some serious doubts that it does. On the flip side, I can strap on a pair of six-shooters, load various knives and swords into the back of a small plane, and take off on my own on a coast-to-coast flight without being searched even once. And that lack of search is not from a “charmed life” or luck but because it’s outside the TSA’s system of search
If I am acting in a suspicious manner than yes, I SHOULD be searched. On the other hand, if my papers/other items are in order and I am compliant with requirements then most likely I will not be searched - unless I’m getting on an airliner.
It seems to me, however, that there is far too much drawing women aside for boody searches going on with the TSA. Asking if there is some other motivation than pure security going on here is not an unreasonable question. After all, if the security personnel are doing their job properly they have no reason to fear observation and monitoring of their role, correct?
Nor am I entirely opposed to the concept of a pat-down - there have been times in the past when I willingly complied with a pat-down/frisk because I believe it WOULD improve my safety. However, NONE of those occassions involved groin searches or touching my breasts, either above, under, or between. I do believe needless harassment is going on, and the victims have no recourse. Some perv getting his/her jollies from pulling aside well-endowed women for a touchy-feely is NOT improving our security.
I think there should be something distributed with the tickets stating explicitly what sort of search may or may not occur, and with some sort of hotline to report potential abuses of power. That way, if the authorities want to to make a booby-search or ballsack-grab the standard everyone will know that, those who feel this is excessive can opt for other transport (at least for now).