# TSA, Police and FBI handcuff and detain student for possessing arabic flashcards **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 10, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497 "2010-02-10T23:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/61 "2010-02-11T19:59:17Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > **MEBuckner** is right. You’re a tool for state power and coercion. If you weren’t, you wouldn’t be mocking people who express concern about this issue. Can anyone else spot the nineteen extra words in the above post? If RR’s posts weren’t mostly made up of tediously repeated generalizations maybe the coy “but let’s wait for the evidence to come in” would carry a shred of weight or credibility. It’s just a troll; content-less shtick. ---
**Author:** ![BrightNShiny](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/62 "2010-02-11T20:28:27Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Can anyone else spot the nineteen extra words in the above post? > > If RR’s posts weren’t mostly made up of tediously repeated generalizations maybe the coy “but let’s wait for the evidence to come in” would carry a shred of weight or credibility. It’s just a troll; content-less shtick. What are you, the thread police? How about you stop being a tool for message board power and coercion. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/63 "2010-02-11T20:31:20Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > **Tool for State Power and Coercion**. Band name or Dopername, either one. How about just **State Power and Coercion**? It’s like a utility that distributes electricity and beatings. ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/64 "2010-02-11T20:34:32Z")
> [@BrightNShiny](#): > > What are you, the **thread police**? In your dreams, maybe. (Sorry to use such a hackneyed, cheap trick, but it was either that or an **Ivn** reference 😛 ) ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/65 "2010-02-11T20:35:59Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > How about just **State Power and Coercion**? It’s like a utility that distributes electricity and beatings. Yeah, I hate those long dopernames. Regards, Attack from the 3rd Dimension…Esquire. ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/66 "2010-02-11T21:16:11Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > I will testify to that. I had a run-in at the same airport in late July, 2009 over something in my bag that was within the rules and had made it through security no problem during my outbound flight from California 2 weeks prior. > > As will probably surprise no one following my antics here the last couple of days, I spoke up and asked questions. It took a while, and I had a while because I was at lest 4 hours early for my flight. It ended probably with me one sneeze away from getting arrested over questioning my rights and trying to ascertain what the actual rules were. > > I left without the actual item in question, which like the flashcards, was of nominal value. > > I don’t know if this happened at the same entrance or not, but I was definitely surrounded by guys up to 3 levels higher than the folks who normally screen you and including some plain clothes guys hanging around too. All of it was civil in the sense that no one was rude or impertinent. > > For a while, the officers were polite to a fault, but in the end they couldn’t or wouldn’t produce the actual rule they were claiming to invoke, and which everyone claimed the next guy higher up had. That is how I got so many levels up - playing on their politeness and insisting politely that they follow through when they said their superior has it or would know who has it. > > Eventually they realized I would call their bluff all the way up - I had four hours - and they got menacing. It was interesting to see and observe. I recommend you watch around the terminal area sometime, if only for a minute after you pass through. Once I decided I had had enough menacing, I thanked them politely for their time, gave them the item as a parting gift, which they promptly trashed without ever explaining why it was a problem, and was on my way. > > So good for them that only a few weeks later they went overboard. Had I been carrying the wrong book off my bookshelf, that could’ve been me. I hope they all are brought to bear for the preposterous security theater they perform every single day. > > PS - for those of you who have been my “fans” the last couple of days, you might enjoy, as Paul Harvey said, “the rest of the story”: > > After spending a boring 4 hours in the terminal, finally my flight loaded and pushed away. Ours was the last plane to push away before a large thunderstorm rolled in, and we sat on the tarmac for \> 2 hours. We didn’t even take off until after I had already missed my connection in Ohio. That set off a mad scramble that took me for an overnight (4 hours in the hotel) layover in Chicago, then Phoenix, Burbank, and San Jose followed by a four hour drive home. It was miserable. Thought I’d share so my “fans” can laugh 🙂 So, what was the item? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tooth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c67d28/32.png) [@The\_Tooth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tooth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/67 "2010-02-11T21:20:11Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > How about just **State Power and Coercion**? It’s like a utility that distributes electricity and beatings. I like **State Power and the Coercions**. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/68 "2010-02-11T21:25:16Z")
_ahem_ ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/69 "2010-02-11T21:31:27Z")
If you are a language student and get stopped for no other reason than carrying flashcards (assuming the story is correct), would it help to just lie and say you are planning on going into government work after college? Screw principles, you have a flight to catch. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/70 "2010-02-11T21:33:52Z")
It would probably help more to tell them you’re an ACLU litigator. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/71 "2010-02-11T21:51:20Z")
Flash card. Flash bomb. They have the same number of letters. Coincidence? I think not. Why don’t they shoot down the planes that have paint jobs that include Arabic writing? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/72 "2010-02-11T21:53:50Z")
> [@Mosier](#): > > > [@not\_alice](#): > > > > I will testify to that. I had a run-in at the same airport in late July, 2009 over something in my bag that was within the rules and had made it through security no problem during my outbound flight from California 2 weeks prior. > > > > As will probably surprise no one following my antics here the last couple of days, I spoke up and asked questions. It took a while, and I had a while because I was at lest 4 hours early for my flight. It ended probably with me one sneeze away from getting arrested over questioning my rights and trying to ascertain what the actual rules were. > > … > > > > After spending a boring 4 hours in the terminal, finally my flight loaded and pushed away. Ours was the last plane to push away before a large thunderstorm rolled in, and we sat on the tarmac for \> 2 hours. We didn’t even take off until after I had already missed my connection in Ohio. That set off a mad scramble that took me for an overnight (4 hours in the hotel) layover in Chicago, then Phoenix, Burbank, and San Jose followed by a four hour drive home. It was miserable. Thought I’d share so my “fans” can laugh 🙂 > > So, what was the item? Oh man, what a predicament. So here I am, dying to make a [Top Secret!](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088286/)reference. I want to answer simply, “[The Anal Intruder](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-NbobOaWyM#t=0m57s),” and make some vague reference to East German current differences and the length of time to get the smile off his face. I don’t know how many people would have picked up on the reference, but (to me) it’s a classic film from the height of the Airplane! trend. But given it’s relative obscurity, and given that this is the Pit, and given the recent borderline meltdown, I just can’t think of a way to work it in (heh) without the high risk of unintentionally blindsiding **not\_alice** with what would otherwise appear to be a completely random and particularly nasty shot. So please, if anyone else out there has fond memories of Nick Rivera, can’t order Chocolate Mousse without hearing it in a silly French accent, and think of midgets when someone says they know a little German, would you pretend that I made a subtle witticism that made you smile? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/73 "2010-02-11T21:54:50Z")
> [@not\_alice](#): > > Thought I’d share so my “fans” can laugh 🙂 I trust you explained your position, and explained your position, and explained your position, and explained your position, and explained your position, and explained your position . . . and still could not understand what they were telling you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/74 "2010-02-11T22:20:58Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > Oh man, what a predicament. So here I am, dying to make a [Top Secret!](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088286/)reference. I want to answer simply, “[The Anal Intruder](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-NbobOaWyM#t=0m57s),” and make some vague reference to East German current differences and the length of time to get the smile off his face. > > I don’t know how many people would have picked up on the reference, but (to me) it’s a classic film from the height of the Airplane! trend. But given it’s relative obscurity, and given that this is the Pit, and given the recent borderline meltdown, I just can’t think of a way to work it in (heh) without the high risk of unintentionally blindsiding **not\_alice** with what would otherwise appear to be a completely random and particularly nasty shot. > > So please, if anyone else out there has fond memories of Nick Rivera, can’t order Chocolate Mousse without hearing it in a silly French accent, and think of midgets when someone says they know a little German, would you pretend that I made a subtle witticism that made you smile? > > Thanks. Ever been skeet surfing? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/75 "2010-02-11T23:00:19Z")
Thank you. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2010, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/76 "2010-02-11T23:49:16Z")
My wife (the former TSA agent) surprised me by saying she could see the agents’ point of view. She says there is this constant worry in the background that if they let the wrong person through, then both something terrible will happen _and_ they will be blamed. So they see a guy studying arabic words dealing with terrorism-connoting topics, and they treat it somewhat like they would treat a guy making jokes about bombs. He gets pulled out at least for extra screening if not more. A four hour interrogation? Seem a bit much. But then, as others have pointed out, we only have one side of the story right now. ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/77 "2010-02-12T00:17:23Z")
I saw the CNN bit on this thing this morning, and with the ‘bomb’ and ‘explosive’ flash cards (that looked to be hand written) and his extensive travel to places like Jordan -all of which he himself admitted and/or showed to CNN- I understand the feeling that an agent might get that they should take a second look at the guy. A second look, maybe just make him hang out and stare at him, look him up on the myriad databases that they would have access to, make him a little uncomfortable for a minute and see if something comes up. That’s it. 10 maybe 20 minutes of non-custodial interviewing and he’s outta there if nothing pops. That said? If the idiotic questions were true and the 4 hour custodial interrogation is factual, everyone involved should be fired or demoted and he should likely win the suit. Morons. ---
**Author:** ![mozchron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mozchron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mozchron)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/78 "2010-02-12T01:11:02Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > I saw the CNN bit on this thing this morning, and with the ‘bomb’ and ‘explosive’ flash cards (that looked to be hand written) and his extensive travel to places like Jordan -all of which he himself admitted and/or showed to CNN- I understand the feeling that an agent might get that they should take a second look at the guy. > > A second look, maybe just make him hang out and stare at him, look him up on the myriad databases that they would have access to, make him a little uncomfortable for a minute and see if something comes up. That’s it. 10 maybe 20 minutes of non-custodial interviewing and he’s outta there if nothing pops. > > That said? If the idiotic questions were true and the 4 hour custodial interrogation is factual, everyone involved should be fired or demoted and he should likely win the suit. Morons. OP here. I actually agree that the kid should have gotten extra attention by the TSA - it would show that they were paying attention. But as soon as it was determined that he posed no threat (no dangerous items etc…) he should have been let on his way. 20 minutes TOPS. Handcuffing him and detaining him for 4+ hours is unacceptable. Rand Rover - as a conservative, I can’t believe that you wouldn’t agree with this. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2010, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/79 "2010-02-12T01:20:16Z")
I don’t know why you think me being a fiscal conservative has anything to do with this thread. All’s I know is that it’s ridiculous to read an article about the TSA written by the ACLU and think anything other than “Hmm, that’s interesting, I wonder what really happened” and then get on down the road. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/80 "2010-02-14T18:34:13Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > By Iranian, I presume you mean [Farsi](http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=pes) or [Persian](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_language). Unfortunately, both Farsi and Urdu would look like Arabic to a humble mono-lingual TSA agent – Urdu is written in the Arabic script, and Farsi in a very similar script. > > To me, the real problem is not that the guy was given extra scrutiny, but that it took so long to decide that he was carrying nothing that was a real threat. Actually Urdu and Farsi are written in the same script, the Persian script (Urdu started life as a branch of Persian). Otherwise, Pakistan would be “Bakistan” since Arabic has not “P” sound. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497.md?page=5)