# TSA, Police and FBI handcuff and detain student for possessing arabic flashcards **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 10, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497 "2010-02-10T23:58:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/81 "2010-02-14T19:00:21Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I don’t know why you think me being a fiscal conservative has anything to do with this thread. All’s I know is that it’s ridiculous to read an article about the TSA written by the ACLU and think anything other than “Hmm, that’s interesting, I wonder what really happened” and then get on down the road. Belief that the ACLU is a severely-biased enough source to discount them entirely is probably part of it, but that seems to relate to your conservatism in general. (and opposes your libertarianism, inasmuch as I can’t remember the last time the ACLU took an anti-libertarian position that I heard about). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/82 "2010-02-14T20:44:20Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > I saw the CNN bit on this thing this morning, and with the ‘bomb’ and ‘explosive’ flash cards (that looked to be hand written) and his extensive travel to places like Jordan -all of which he himself admitted and/or showed to CNN- I understand the feeling that an agent might get that they should take a second look at the guy. > > A second look, maybe just make him hang out and stare at him, look him up on the myriad databases that they would have access to, make him a little uncomfortable for a minute and see if something comes up. That’s it. 10 maybe 20 minutes of non-custodial interviewing and he’s outta there if nothing pops. > > That said? If the idiotic questions were true and the 4 hour custodial interrogation is factual, everyone involved should be fired or demoted and he should likely win the suit. Morons. Regardless of what the flash cards said, or whether he was “radicalized,” he still had no weapons or any ability to cause harm on the plnae, therefore there was no defensible reason to detain him for five minutes, much less four hours. Even if he hated America and had recently converted to some extremist Islamic cult, those things aren’t illegal, and don’t make anyone a threat on an airplane. Detaining somebody because you think they might hate America is punishing nothing but thought (and not even thought, but _suspected_ thought). This TSA guy asking what language bin Laden speaks is a complete moron and a bigot, and needs to be fired. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/83 "2010-02-14T21:24:45Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > اليوم التفجير. أدب أعددت > > According to Babelfish, that means I prepared Explosive Runes today. in Arabic. LOL, Babelfish translation is still as appallingly bad as ever. They don’t disappoint. The sentence you posted actually translates back into English as “Today is the explosion. Literature I prepared” For one thing, the word order got scrambled because the left-to-right coded period goofed up the directionality of the right-to-left coded Arabic. I see that snafu happening all the time. But basically Babelfish is absolutely inept at translating. They do a far worse job than even the lousiest human translator is capable of. I checked and Arabic has no word for “runes,” except as a loanword from English. Babelfish’s unassailable (but wrong) logic probably runs: Runes=letters. Letters=literature. If a=b, and b=c, then a=c… NOT. A correct translation of the sentence would read: أعددت حروفاً رونيةً مفجّرةً اليوم (A‘dadtu ḥurūfan rūnīyah mufajjirah al-yawm). Good joke, anyway! ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/84 "2010-02-14T21:27:22Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > I don’t know why you think me being a fiscal conservative has anything to do with this thread. All’s I know is that it’s ridiculous to read an article about the TSA written by the ACLU and think anything other than “Hmm, that’s interesting, I wonder what really happened” and then get on down the road. It has to be a conspiracy between the TSA, ACLU and the dangerous liberals. It is how they get your money. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/85 "2010-02-14T21:42:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This TSA guy asking what language bin Laden speaks is a complete moron and a bigot, and needs to be fired. More importantly, the TSA guy asking the young man what religion he adheres to is a complete moron and a bigot and needs to be fired. ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2010, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/86 "2010-02-14T22:44:57Z")
I feel compelled to post this. Is this the answer? I dunno. This links to a video from ChinaConfidential about how El Al screens for terrorists, and points out that they have a spotless terrorism safety record… [http://chinaconfidential.blogspot.com/2009/12/how-israel-screens-for-terrorists.html](http://chinaconfidential.blogspot.com/2009/12/how-israel-screens-for-terrorists.html) ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/87 "2010-02-15T03:57:47Z")
Does anyone have a comment about the video I posted? Why something like that cannot work in the USA? It seems the ethnic profiling is the issue. It seems to merely inconvenience El Al passengers in Israel, but its a Rosa Parks issue in America post 9/11. Why? ---
**Author:** ![Rhythmdvl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/85f322/32.png) [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/88 "2010-02-15T14:53:56Z")
“Is ethnic profiling ever justified?” seems like a good idea for a GD thread. Lots of fodder there, but this (the OP ‘this’) wasn’t a case of 15 minutes of extra scrutiny, this was a claim that he “was abusively interrogated, handcuffed and detained for nearly five hours.” ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/89 "2010-02-15T18:55:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Regardless of what the flash cards said, or whether he was “radicalized,” he still had no weapons or any ability to cause harm on the plnae, therefore there was no defensible reason to detain him for five minutes, much less four hours. Even if he hated America and had recently converted to some extremist Islamic cult, those things aren’t illegal, and don’t make anyone a threat on an airplane. Detaining somebody because you think they might hate America is punishing nothing but thought (and not even thought, but _suspected_ thought). > > This TSA guy asking what language bin Laden speaks is a complete moron and a bigot, and needs to be fired. There’s nothing illegal about being a radical muslim and hating America, lotsa people do one, the other or both. However, he wasn’t being stopped walking down the street. He was getting on an airplane. There’s a LOT of difference there, like it or not. To a certian degree, profiling works. Granted, it may be conditioning, but a little talk and a little delay for the sake of examination is never a bad thing, unless you’ve got something you want to remain in the dark. Fact is, he DID deserve a little chat, he did NOT deserve what he got. The questions, were they actually asked, were completely stupid and meaningless and I agree that the TSA joker needs a new line of work. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/90 "2010-02-15T19:05:46Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > There’s nothing illegal about being a radical muslim and hating America, lotsa people do one, the other or both. However, he wasn’t being stopped walking down the street. He was getting on an airplane. There’s a LOT of difference there, like it or not. I disagree. The only thing that matters on a plane is if someone has the ability to do any damage (i.e. if he has a weapon). Beliefs and associations mean nothing without the ability to actually do anything about it. What was this guy going to do, throw his cards at people? ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/91 "2010-02-15T19:49:21Z")
Oh Dio, you are so right! Good thing the TSA and other airport screeners have the ability to determine if someone has a weapon with 100 percent accuracy. And good thing there’s nothing on a plane that could be turned into a weapon. And good thing that it’s impossible for two terrorists to board the same flight with only one of them carrying a weapon. And good thing it’s not possible for a terrorist to hide a weapon on a white grandma and then retrieve it mid-flight (a favorite thought example of the anti-profilers, I might add). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/92 "2010-02-15T19:58:53Z")
How does any of that have any relevance to this case? The dude did not have any weapons. It takes about two minutes to determine that. Anything on the plane that can be turned into a weapon? I don’t know, I doubt it, but that’s not this kid’s problem, and he would have no more abilty to turn a seat cushion or a set of headphones into a weapon than anyone else. Someone else on the plane might have a weapon? Not if security is dong its job, and that’s still not this kid’s problem. ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/93 "2010-02-15T20:33:27Z")
> [@Rand\_Rover](#): > > Oh Dio, you are so right! > > **Good thing the TSA and other airport screeners have the ability to determine if someone has a weapon with 100 percent accuracy.** And good thing there’s nothing on a plane that could be turned into a weapon. And good thing that it’s impossible for two terrorists to board the same flight with only one of them carrying a weapon. And good thing it’s not possible for a terrorist to hide a weapon on a white grandma and then retrieve it mid-flight (a favorite thought example of the anti-profilers, I might add). Bolding mine. That is sort of, you know, their _job_. You can talk about how it’s an impossible goal in the real world all you want, but that is their stated purpose for existing in the first place. It’s really stretching if your only defense of them doing doing their job poorly is that they do their job poorly by default and we shouldn’t expect any better because they’re so bad at it anyway. People shouldn’t be suprised when TSA messes up because they’re a bunch of incompetent idiots may be true, but it doesn’t change the problem of them being incompetent idiots in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/94 "2010-02-15T20:40:51Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > Does anyone have a comment about the video I posted? Why something like that cannot work in the USA? I have a comment. I would fucking love being able to bring liquids on the plane. I travel often on short trips, and the only I reason I check a bag is to bring my toiletries. Too bad (in that sense anyway) Ireland ain’t Israel. As for why, I tend to agree somewhat with what you proposed: > [@](#): > > It seems the ethnic profiling is the issue. It seems to merely inconvenience El Al passengers in Israel, but its a Rosa Parks issue in America post 9/11. Why? However, as others have alluded to, TSA screeners as a group are not exactly highly-trained, well-paid security professionals. A lot would have to change in the US for that to be the case, ethnic profiling or no. You couldn’t run the Israeli system in the US without massive personnel turnover (always problematic with public sector jobs). ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/95 "2010-02-15T21:25:51Z")
Seems like we get a new TSA story here in Philly every week. Here’s the latest: **TSA forces developmentally delayed 4-year-old to remove his leg braces and walk unassisted through checkpoint** [http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/20100215\_Daniel\_Rubin\_\_Another\_case\_of\_TSA\_overkill.html](http://www.philly.com/inquirer/columnists/20100215_Daniel_Rubin__Another_case_of_TSA_overkill.html) ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2010, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/96 "2010-02-15T22:12:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I disagree. The only thing that matters on a plane is if someone has the ability to do any damage (i.e. if he has a weapon). Beliefs and associations mean nothing without the ability to actually do anything about it. What was this guy going to do, throw his cards at people? While I agree with this, and trying _very_ hard not to sound like Rand Rover, I can think of at least 3 ways in any given commerical airline cabin to cause an unsafe drop in cabin pressure that could lead to a crash or other type of calamity, using the standard equipment already present, no weapons, only intent and knowledge. We still wouldn’t necessarily know the ability or intent of someone like the bloke in the story, however I don’t think it’s entirely out of whack to hang on to him for a while, give him the chat and stink-eye for a while and send him on his way if there’s nothing to see. Again, I’m in agreement with the fact that the TSA folks acted stupidly and the cops exacerbated the stupidity, but I also know that a little bit of checking won’t hurt anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/97 "2010-02-16T01:09:25Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How does any of that have any relevance to this case? The dude did not have any weapons. It takes about two minutes to determine that. > > Anything on the plane that can be turned into a weapon? I don’t know, I doubt it, but that’s not this kid’s problem, and he would have no more abilty to turn a seat cushion or a set of headphones into a weapon than anyone else. > > Someone else on the plane might have a weapon? Not if security is dong its job, and that’s still not this kid’s problem. Must be nice in your world, Dio. Out here in the real world, we have over-burdened TSA agents trying to keep nutjobs off planes and other nutjobs questioning their every fart on internet messageboards. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/98 "2010-02-16T01:11:02Z")
It’s not their job to keep nutjobs off of planes, it’s their job to keep weapons off of planes. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/99 "2010-02-16T02:00:22Z")
Thats—rather stupid, Dio. The problem is nutjobs with weapons on planes. The problem can be solved by keeping either the nutjob or the weapon off the plane. And there’s always something on a plane that can be used as a weapon by a sufficiently motivated nutjob. Also, how do you know for a fact that it didn’t take 4 hours to fully determine this guy didn’t have a weapon? The underwear bomb sniffing machine could have been being used on someone else’s underwear during that period. The length of the detention doesn’t automatically mean that the TSA did something wrong. You have no facts, but you are willing to bitch and moan nonetheless out of your clown ass. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2010, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497/100 "2010-02-16T02:09:19Z")
No, it’s only weapons that matter. Nutjobs without weapons are no more danger than anybody else. There’s no law against being a nutjob, and there’s too many of them. If you tried to keep them all off of planes, Sarah Palin would never be able to fly. Your underwear question is too stupid to merit an answer, plus nothing in the story says they spent that time seraching him for wepaons. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsa-police-and-fbi-handcuff-and-detain-student-for-possessing-arabic-flashcards/528497.md?page=6)