I wonder if lingyi knows someone is putting his name on stupid posts.
Doreen, New York will accept the following documents as proof of residence. You need to present two of them.
(1) Current Driver’s license or ID card. (Seems simple enough)
(2) Certificate of Residency. (That’s just a form that the parent signs swearing that the applicant lives at the stated address. That’s pretty simple.)
(3) Postmarked mail. (That means that all you have to do is mail something to yourself, and bring it to the DMV once it arrives in your mail box. I don’t think it can get simpler than that)
I’m not seeing the major inconvenience or impossibilities here.
Security Theater.
Pretending to do something, at the inconvenience of the many.
The time before I renewed my license I had to show a birth certificate. I copied my old license (note!), sent that into the suitable state, got a birth certificate. Used that to get a new license.
No verification by anybody that I was the actual person connected to the license or birth certificate.
The last renewal I needed proof of SSN or some such. Trivially generated and could have been faked by a 5th grader.
Yeah, that’ll work.
The effect of all this on the safety of fliers? Zip.
If you tell me what state you are in, I will look up their requirements and tell you exactly what the person can do if he/she lives with roommates and doesn’t have any bills. I’m willing to bet the solution is as simple as the ones in New York. It’s a Federal Act, so I’d expect the rules to be similar across all states. I think you are all making this simple requirement out to be some impossible and unreasonable process.
Perhaps. But it isn’t just about flying. This isn’t a TSA requirement. It’s a Federal Government requirement. If you want the feds to accept your ID as valid, it has to conform to their standards. The TSA just happens to be the one agency that most people will interact with.
For the exhaustive list, go here:
https://process.dmv.ny.gov/documentguide/dmv_license/DisplayPages/proofResidence.cfm# (Click the “See More Documents” link)
Or view the list on the New York form ID-44: https://dmv.ny.gov/files/id44pdf
Just lying around? I doubt anyone. Stored somewhere with other legal documents, birth certificates, divorce decrees, deeds, titles, wills, etc? I bet most responsible adults do that. Even if it’s not most, it certainly isn’t so rare as to say someone is out of his mind for maintaining his marriage certificate along with his other important legal documents.
Did anyone change their name as a result of the marriage? What document was used to effect that change?
That certification form and the postmarked mail ( that you can mail to yourself) are fairly new additions and probably a result of the need to verify residence to issue a Real ID license. I notice the revision dates on the forms are 6/18 and 1/19.
Most likely. I’m glad to see they’re finding solutions. It shouldn’t be something that seems difficult or impossible for anyone. It needs to be simple. I’m trying to find the form that allowed my wife to not present her SSN Card as well. It was similar to the certificate of residency, except it was something she signed–not something another person signs. She has her card, we just didn’t bring it with us at the time. Having that affidavit as an option certainly made the process much easier.
everyone I know under 30 banks on-line. Their statement goes to their email, not to a physical address. Same for most other bills.
But hey, I can go the the post office, buy some stamps, write myself a letter, steal an envelope from my employer, drop the letter in a mailbox, wait for it to be delivered, and use that. That’s possible for most people, I suppose, but hardly seems like a good use of anyone’s time.
nope. We changed our names in a non-marriage way, by posting a notice of intent to change names in the local paper, and filling for a name change in court. Then we used that document to change everything else. At the time, men couldn’t change names from marriage, and women could only change last names.
I assume that if I needed to prove I’m married the town would be able to cough up a document. Oddly, no one has ever asked me to prove that, including employers giving my husband benefits, and insurance companies. I’m guessing that it’s something people don’t lie about very often, and the cost of verifying it isn’t worth the benefit. Hmm.
Yup. And achingly bad law. All because people like bear_nenno want to be sure that everything printed on an ID was true at the time the ID was applied for. As if I couldn’t get a driver’s license and move the next day.
And the SSN isn’t even printed on the driver’s licence. Why do I need to document that, again?
Well goodie for her. So she signed something. And that’s better than just signing that you live where you claim you live because…?
Bully for you!
But, if you want to go to Paris, France and not Paris, Arkansas it’s going to be a tough drive.
Massachusetts gives you lots of options. Your number one is one, but I didn’t have any IDs that included my address. Number two is an option as well, if you’re under 18. And number three is not an option, it has to be from the government or some large organisation or be official in some way, like a W-2.
And at the time I had none of that, figured a letter from USCIS would be official enough, even without the envelope, and it wasn’t, while a print out of a bank statement was.
So do I. I’m not sure what your point is. Your online bank still has your address, and you can log into your account and print off something from the bank with your address on it. A statement, perhaps?
That emailed statement should still have a mailing address on it. I have three different online banks with checking/savings accounts. I don’t receive paper statements from any of them, but I could go online right now and print one off. All three have my mailing address on them. That doesn’t include mortgages, auto insurance, home owner’s insurance, and credit cards–all of which are handled online. But I could still log in and print something from them with my name and address on it. So, having online banking isn’t an excuse.
That’s way too many steps. Just get a post card and stamp from the grocery store next time you’re there. Drop it in any public mailbox. There’s probably one in the parking lot.
You don’t have a copy of the court documents from the name change? What did you use to apply for your passport? You do have a passport, right? You would have needed something to show the change of your name from your birth certificate.
You could. But 9 days later, the ID would no longer be valid. You could be ticketed for that, and an officer who pulls you over will ask if you still live at that address. If you tell the truth, the officer may write you a ticket. If you lie, well that’s another offense. Though, the officer probably wouldn’t know. The point is, that these laws have already existed. The only difference now is that the Federal Government is involved, so everybody is freaking out.
I don’t know. I’ve said as much.
I don’t think you’re even paying attention at this point. She signed an affidavit attesting to her SSN Card–not her address. No one can “sign that you live where you live”. The certificate of residency requires that SOME OTHER PERSON certifies under oath and penalty of imprisonment, that “you live where you say you live”. That is much different than just a solitary person saying they live there. And, an additional proof of residency is still required.
As far as the affidavit for the SSN, I never said that I think people should need to produce their SSN card. In fact, I’ve said the opposite, and I said that I’m glad Florida offered this option.
Yea, that’s kind of strange that the USCIS letter wasn’t acceptable. What did they say was the issue? Was it too long ago? Or it just wasn’t on their specific list, so they didn’t accept it?
I think there are quite a few problems with RealID. I was focusing on one of them, because that’s where the conversation went.
The fact that you need a level of ID above a passport to get on a domestic flight with Document A but not Document B is stupid. So is needing passport-level ID to get on a domestic flight, but at a slightly lower level of stupidity. The fact that the TSA workers are a Federal Authority does not in any way, whatsoever, convince me that they must follow a Consistent Federal Standard Of Security And Validity for verifying people’s identities, or that they should be verifying people’s identity at all.
Edit: This isn’t about security paranoia and “the man,” but about the government putting stupid hurdles in front of people exercising basic rights of citizenship, such as travel and visiting civic institutions (and, at the state level, voting). And obviously they’re not insurmountable; hurdles wouldn’t work if some people couldn’t get over them.
I am paying attention. You seen to think that because the license shows an address, it’s critical that it be verified to some arbitrary federal standard in order use a driver’s license to get on an airplane. That’s nonsensical to me, as there’s no reason TSA needs your address, as evidenced by a passport being adequate ID.
So I guess you agree that requesting the SSN is nonsensical, and therefore you are okay with her just swearing to it? Then can’t you understand why I think it should be adequate to just swear to your address? Lying produces all the same problems that you point out could happen if I move. So why is “you could get in trouble for lying” good enough a week after the id is issued, but not good enough when it is issued?
And the idea that a document you print on your own computer is somehow proof of anything is pretty funny. So, law abiding citizens now have all sorts of inconvenient hurdles, but anyone who wants to cheat can do so trivially. How can that be good law?
Look, I know several people who have already been inconvenienced by this law. It took my mom an extra two weeks to get her license, and I heard about the gory details of the annoyances for several hours over those two weeks and the following few weeks. My son decided not to bother with real ID because it was too much trouble. I’m debating what I’m going to do. Quite possibly, I’ll get a passport card instead. That will be easier, since i already have a passport.
(And yes, I have the name change document somewhere, and yes I used it to get a passport decades ago. It doesn’t prove I’m married to my husband, though, so it doesn’t do my any good if the utilities are in his name. Really, since getting a passport, I haven’t used any other id except my unreal drivers license. The passport is good enough to prove who I am, that I’m eligible to work in the US and that I’m allowed to travel across international borders. I show the driver’s license to buy booze and if a cop stops me. Oh, and once at a shooting range. What else do I need id for? )
Some people seem to be going out of their way to exaggerate how hard it is to get a proper photo ID. It’s not that hard, folks.