# Tsar Bomba vs Aids **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 3, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275 "2014-10-03T14:33:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/1 "2014-10-03T14:33:51Z")
Fellow time travellers, as you know we did sterling work wiping out Super Syphilis in Siberia, an event remembered as Tunguska. Now we know the [origin of Aids](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-29442642), the Belgian Congo in the 1920s. It’s future capital, then known as Leopoldville, now Kinshasa. Today it’s a city of 9 million people, known for the “Rumble in the Jungle” to boxing fans. Here’s the plan. We send one of [these](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f2/Tsar_Bomba_Revised.jpg) back to the centre of Leopoldville in 1920, with a population of several tens of thousands. Then, we [detonate it](http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=50000&lat=-4.331667&lng=15.313889&hob_opt=2&hob_psi=5&hob_ft=13000&casualties=1&fallout=1&ff=3&zm=12). It will destroy the city and the surrounding countryside, purging the [“perfect storm”](http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/hiv-was-created-by-perfect-storm-of-factors-that-led-to-pandemic-study-reveals-9770552.html) by nuclear fire. Of course, lots of people will die and the neighbouring Brazzaville across the river, the capital of French Equatorial Africa, will also be destroyed. I know what you’re thinking - why not shoot patient zero rather than nuke him. Unfortunately a new patient zero always arises a days or weeks later, so nuking it from orbit is the only way to be sure. Do we interfere and wipe out the cities? Is smothering Aids in its crib worth the destruction and casualties? All those in favour vote AYE, all those opposed vote NAY. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/2 "2014-10-03T14:38:10Z")
I voted nay. If we have this time machine, I’d rather just, with the benefit of hindsight, encourage the medical community and world governments to take AIDS as the serious public health risk it is much sooner than they did. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/3 "2014-10-03T14:43:46Z")
Let’s see - some tens of thousands vs. 36 million. Bye bye, Kinshasa. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/4 "2014-10-03T14:45:18Z")
There are at least two distinct varieties of HIV, did they both arise from the same general area? And the cleanup and rebuilding effort will bring in a lot of workers to the area, and they will want entertainment. Seems you might just delay it by a few months of years. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/5 "2014-10-03T15:01:07Z")
Also as the article says Kinshasa had become a hub for markets and trade and had 1 million rail passengers passing through daily. I’m thinking you don’t abandon that kind of economic powerhouse, and demand for trade and transport would just see it rebuilt so then HIV starts spreading slightly later. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/6 "2014-10-03T15:01:32Z")
> [@grude](#): > > There are at least two distinct varieties of HIV, did they both arise from the same general area? > > And the cleanup and rebuilding effort will bring in a lot of workers to the area, and they will want entertainment. Seems you might just delay it by a few months of years. I’m no doctor, but the HIV-1 group M pandemic, the bad one, definitely did. After we blow up Big Ivan there won’t be much left to rebuild. It’s at least 1,350 times more powerful than the bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, combined. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/7 "2014-10-03T15:04:47Z")
I vote no. Blowing up cities will have consequences beyond just destroying a disease. This could easily cause more than enough additional war and strife in the long run to make up for the deaths prevented. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/8 "2014-10-03T15:09:15Z")
> [@grude](#): > > There are at least two distinct varieties of HIV, did they both arise from the same general area? Not the same cities, no. From the OP’s first article, my bolding: > [@](#): > > **The virus made the jump on multiple occasions**. One event led to HIV-1 subgroup O which affects tens of thousands in Cameroon. > > Yet only one cross-species jump, HIV-1 subgroup M, went on to infect millions of people across every country in the world. I know people here are often a bit sketchy on African geography, but Cameroon is several hundred miles from Kinshasa and hosts 3 distinct varieties of HIV of its own. And this solves nothing - people in the region will still be eating bushmeat, SIV would still make the jump to HIV, so it’s no different than the “take out patient zero” option the OP pooh-poohd, only with tens of thousands of other innocent lives lost. I think this is the most abhorrent hypothetical I’ve ever seen posted on the Dope, BTW. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/9 "2014-10-03T15:10:50Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > I’m no doctor, but the HIV-1 group M pandemic, the bad one, definitely did. After we blow up Big Ivan there won’t be much left to rebuild. It’s at least 1,350 times more powerful than the bombs that destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, combined. I meant rebuild as in from the ground up, I mean the railways outside the city will still exist so there will be demand to connect them again. I think the best way to attack AIDS would probably be to get people to stop eating bushmeat, but you’d have a tough job ahead of you. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/10 "2014-10-03T15:18:58Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Not the same cities, no. From the OP’s first article, my bolding: > I know people here are often a bit sketchy on African geography, but Cameroon is several hundred miles from Kinshasa and hosts 3 distinct varieties of HIV of its own. > > And this solves nothing - people in the region will still be eating bushmeat, SIV would still make the jump to HIV, so it’s no different than the “take out patient zero” > option the OP pooh-poohd, only with tens of thousands of other innocent lives lost. > > I think this is the most abhorrent hypothetical I’ve ever seen posted on the Dope, BTW. Aw, thanks. Taking out patient zero doesn’t eliminate the “…combination of factors in Kinshasa in the early 20 Century created a ‘perfect storm’ for the emergence of HIV, leading to a generalised epidemic with unstoppable momentum that unrolled across sub-Saharan Africa” So that’s why it was pooh-poohd. Plus it would be rather boring to discuss, a bigger reason. You’re also talking about group O in Cameron, group M (over 90% of cases) originated in the Congo. (For the record poll inspired by [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17751779) past thread on ebola, but with HIV substituted. I don’t think it would be a good idea either, btw, just wanted to see how many would favour that trade-off). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/11 "2014-10-03T16:07:05Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > Aw, thanks. Taking out patient zero doesn’t eliminate the “…combination of factors in Kinshasa in the early 20 Century created a ‘perfect storm’ for the emergence of HIV, leading to a generalised epidemic with unstoppable momentum that unrolled across sub-Saharan Africa” Neither does taking out Kinshasa. You’d have to take out the bushmeat trade. > [@](#): > > You’re also talking about group O in Cameron, group M (over 90% of cases) originated in the Congo. I was addressing **grude** ’s question > [@](#): > > (For the record poll inspired by [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=17751779) past thread on ebola, but with HIV substituted. I don’t think it would be a good idea either, btw, just wanted to see how many would favour that trade-off). 3 too many, IMO. Makes me wish it was a public poll. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/12 "2014-10-03T16:11:02Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > I know what you’re thinking - why not shoot patient zero rather than nuke him. Unfortunately a new patient zero always arises a days or weeks later, so nuking it from orbit is the only way to be sure. And if we nuke it, then a new patient zero will arise months or years later from a few hundred or thousand miles away. I vote NAY. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/13 "2014-10-03T16:19:45Z")
Jesus Christ, of course not. What a horrible idea. How the hell did we get 3 yes votes? ---
**Author:** ![Heracles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heracles/32/487_2.png) [@Heracles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Heracles)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/14 "2014-10-03T17:10:40Z")
> [@Mr.Kobayashi](#): > > (…) and the neighbouring Brazzaville across the river, the capital of French Equatorial Africa, will also be destroyed. \ Uh, French? Wasn’t the Congo Belgian? \ ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/15 "2014-10-03T17:54:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think this is the most abhorrent hypothetical I’ve ever seen posted on the Dope, BTW. See, this is typical. Every time somebody suggests the callous murder of thousands of Africans you show up and get your panties in a twist. Why can’t you just come to grips with the fact that lots of foreigners spend considerable amounts of time thinking of ways to kill people on your continent? I mean, you’re not even in the same country. What right have you got to demonstrate this much empathy? ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/16 "2014-10-03T18:05:15Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > See, this is typical. Every time somebody suggests the callous murder of thousands of Africans you show up and get your panties in a twist. Why can’t you just come to grips with the fact that lots of foreigners spend considerable amounts of time thinking of ways to kill people on your continent? > > I mean, you’re not even in the same country. What right have you got to demonstrate this much empathy? It is a time travel hypothetical, there are no potential victims to show empathy to. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2014, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/17 "2014-10-03T21:15:14Z")
It wasn’t that it was set in Africa, it’s that there are apparently 5 people who think Ozymandias was the good guy in _Watchmen_ ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/18 "2014-10-04T05:55:34Z")
I cannot be objective about this hypothetical. I lost quite a few friends and lovers to AIDS, and I’d do just about anything for them not to have died. It’s very difficult to weigh their lives against any number of strangers with any objectivity. But I’m not voting in the poll. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/19 "2014-10-04T06:31:29Z")
> [@OneCentStamp](#): > > I voted nay. If we have this time machine, I’d rather just, with the benefit of hindsight, encourage the medical community and world governments to take AIDS as the serious public health risk it is much sooner than they did. This. Why use a sledgehammer when an educational approach will do as much good. Next: machine-gun people who run stop signs, and flamethrower people who litter in the park. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Kobayashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Mr.Kobayashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Kobayashi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2014, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275/20 "2014-10-04T12:06:36Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > I cannot be objective about this hypothetical. I lost quite a few friends and lovers to AIDS, and I’d do just about anything for them not to have died. It’s very difficult to weigh their lives against any number of strangers with any objectivity. > > But I’m not voting in the poll. Sorry to hear that man. Didn’t mean to be over flippant or callous about the disease itself. > [@MrDibble](#): > > It wasn’t that it was set in Africa, it’s that there are apparently 5 people who think Ozymandias was the good guy in _Watchmen_ He _wasn’t_?! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/tsar-bomba-vs-aids/700275.md?page=2)